Warm start rattle solved on my car!

[mistral cytz]

Picked up my parts for this today and I'm just waiting for a couple of IM gaskets that are due to arrive tomorrow so I should be tackling this job next week. Last time I had my Intake manifold off to install spacers my car ran like crap once I finished with miss fires and the flashing CEL as soon as I started it up. I had a local shop check and clear the codes and the car suddenly ran perfectly after they were cleared so I'm guessing it was a throttle body alignment issue that the scanner reset but I never confirmed that?

Anyways, have any of you had to reset the throttle body alignment after doing this job or was my last attempt a fluke? I'm concerned about having the same problem.

[christian1]

I purchased my 2004 S4 B6 convertible a couple of months ago and it had consistent cold start rattle and consistent warm start rattle but no idling rattle. Both the start rattles were about 2 seconds long. After 2 months of ownership, at 108,000km (canadian car), I did the chain service after experiencing loud consistent rattling at idle more than 2X. On the 3rd time I stopped the car and had it towed immediately to the shop.

The main guide in the center bottom was broken all the way through. The rest of the guides did not show any breaks, and only minimal wear. The mechanical adjusters both banks were removed, cleaned and inspected and there was little wear on each. All guides and tensioners were replaced with OEM parts, as well as all chains. The oil check valves were inspected and they were stuck open. They were replaced as well.

Furthermore, had the clutch and flywheel replaced with OEM parts, upgraded the alternator with the JHM Hitachi kit, replaced o-ring from bottom of radiator and coolant hoses + o-ring at top of engine.

All parts + labour came in at $8500 CDN.

After 3 days of driving (approximately 4 hours), still no startup chain rattles at cold or warm, and no rattles at idle as well.

[TarlCabot]

Picked up my parts for this today and I'm just waiting for a couple of IM gaskets that are due to arrive tomorrow so I should be tackling this job next week. Last time I had my Intake manifold off to install spacers my car ran like crap once I finished with miss fires and the flashing CEL as soon as I started it up. I had a local shop check and clear the codes and the car suddenly ran perfectly after they were cleared so I'm guessing it was a throttle body alignment issue that the scanner reset but I never confirmed that?

Anyways, have any of you had to reset the throttle body alignment after doing this job or was my last attempt a fluke? I'm concerned about having the same problem.

I had the same thing, but i took apart the injectors and cleaned them, so i know fuel has to push the air back out before she leveled out... but that really only took less than one minute...

idk if that would have anything to do with the TBA

[Slow4]

Picked up my parts for this today and I'm just waiting for a couple of IM gaskets that are due to arrive tomorrow so I should be tackling this job next week. Last time I had my Intake manifold off to install spacers my car ran like crap once I finished with miss fires and the flashing CEL as soon as I started it up. I had a local shop check and clear the codes and the car suddenly ran perfectly after they were cleared so I'm guessing it was a throttle body alignment issue that the scanner reset but I never confirmed that?

Anyways, have any of you had to reset the throttle body alignment after doing this job or was my last attempt a fluke? I'm concerned about having the same problem.

Whats so hard about a manual TB alignment? Turn key to on position, let it set for a few minutes and then start car. Your ECU or tuned ECU does most of the calibration by itself unless you want to go the whole VAG route.

[pagrosse]

All,

I purchased all the parts to do this on my B6. One concern I have is the check valves from Bullstuff (which I ordered). They are about 1/2 the price as from any Audi seller, 30.45 vs $50-65, and the list on the Bullstuff part is $32.39 vs $66.95 for an 'Audi' brand. Does Audi just up-charge that much? Surprised more so than Lamborghini. I just want to make sure I'm getting a quality OEM part.

BTW, I'm still waiting on the part since 5/24, lead time was expected to be 2wks.

[4point2]

I purchased my 2004 S4 B6 convertible a couple of months ago and it had consistent cold start rattle and consistent warm start rattle but no idling rattle. Both the start rattles were about 2 seconds long. After 2 months of ownership, at 108,000km (canadian car), I did the chain service after experiencing loud consistent rattling at idle more than 2X. On the 3rd time I stopped the car and had it towed immediately to the shop.

The main guide in the center bottom was broken all the way through. The rest of the guides did not show any breaks, and only minimal wear. The mechanical adjusters both banks were removed, cleaned and inspected and there was little wear on each. All guides and tensioners were replaced with OEM parts, as well as all chains. The oil check valves were inspected and they were stuck open. They were replaced as well.

Furthermore, had the clutch and flywheel replaced with OEM parts, upgraded the alternator with the JHM Hitachi kit, replaced o-ring from bottom of radiator and coolant hoses + o-ring at top of engine.

All parts + labour came in at $8500 CDN.

After 3 days of driving (approximately 4 hours), still no startup chain rattles at cold or warm, and no rattles at idle as well.

where did you have the work done?

[mistral cytz]

Whats so hard about a manual TB alignment? Turn key to on position, let it set for a few minutes and then start car. Your ECU or tuned ECU does most of the calibration by itself unless you want to go the whole VAG route.

I thought I had done that and also disconnected the battery but hopefully this time I won't need to. I was just wondering wether resetting the TB was mandatory or if I had just bumped it out if alignment?

[Slow4]

I thought I had done that and also disconnected the battery but hopefully this time I won't need to. I was just wondering wether resetting the TB was mandatory or if I had just bumped it out if alignment?

In my experience, its not a mandatory thing since my normal practice is to let the car sit for a minute prior to ignition; regardless if I remove my intake or not. I think the ECU or tuned ECU already adapts and resets/aligns the TB every time you start the car.

[blackedoutt]

I didn't manually adapt my throttle body and have no running issues.

And in reference to bullstuff's cheap price, yes manufacturer service part markup is usually rediculous. Parts markup can easily be over 100% everytime it changes hands through the distribution chain. Bullstuff must have an in somewhere near the top.

[mistral cytz]

In my experience, its not a mandatory thing since my normal practice is to let the car sit for a minute prior to ignition; regardless if I remove my intake or not. I think the ECU or tuned ECU already adapts and resets/aligns the TB every time you start the car.

Okay thanks, I'll try to be more careful this time around. Speaking of prices what is everyone paying for this stuff? I picked up all the parts at a local Audi dealer for $187 before tax.

[SprintBlueWorld]

Well, here I am. Intake manifold is off and I'm looking into the valve chambers. Bit of sand here and there, bit of Pintle cap there,, gummy nastiness coats the walls. How far you guys going into the the valve chamber to clean? Seems like carb cleaner is the best thing, but do we really wants to wash that gunk down into the motor????

[mistral cytz]

Well, here I am. Intake manifold is off and I'm looking into the valve chambers. Bit of sand here and there, bit of Pintle cap there,, gummy nastiness coats the walls. How far you guys going into the the valve chamber to clean? Seems like carb cleaner is the best thing, but do we really wants to wash that gunk down into the motor????

I'm in the exact same situation right now. I'm just cleaning a reasonable amount of it out but not going to spend all day cleaning it to get it spotless. I'm using carb cleaner and a tooth brush mostly but also trying to wipe it out with clean rags to prevent anything from falling down it there.

[TarlCabot]

I'm in the exact same situation right now. I'm just cleaning a reasonable amount of it out but not going to spend all day cleaning it to get it spotless. I'm using carb cleaner and a tooth brush mostly but also trying to wipe it out with clean rags to prevent anything from falling down it there.

+1

[SprintBlueWorld]

oovoo toothbrush good idea!

[blackedoutt]

All that mentioned above plus the straw taped on the vacuum to suck the last little bits out. I also took the two halves of the intake manifold apart and cleaned all the gunk out of there. You will need half a tube of high temp RTV to reassemble the halves and seal well.

[SprintBlueWorld]

Well, I'm declaring the surgery a success. I pulled off the intake, carb cleaned it and the valve ports, installed JHM Spacers, pintle caps, PcV valves n' stuff. However I failed to get further than the carb cleanout tho, which kicked my Ass. I stopped at the Gates of Thunderdome and did not get the check valves installed. Although I had the parts on hand, it was preventative for me, and I don't have any rattle at this time. Nevertheless, the car was happier for the work and has a New Growl. The Test Drive was Nice. :)

[mistral cytz]

Finished up the job today and so far no warm rattle although lately I haven't had it with the warmer temperatures. I was a bit surprised my oil level dropped a noticeable amount once I checked it after a drive but I did mop up a good amount of oil that spilled out from the filter housing and valley pan.
Used a whole can of brake cleaner and roll of shop rags with toothbrushes and still didn't get all the carbon sludge and sand out. Crazy how much sand gets into such deep areas of the engine.

[mistral cytz]

Well, I'm declaring the surgery a success. I pulled off the intake, carb cleaned it and the valve ports, installed JHM Spacers, pintle caps, PcV valves n' stuff. However I failed to get further than the card cleanout tho, which kicked my Ass. I stopped at the Gates of Thunderdome and did not get the check valves installed. Although I had the parts on hand, it was preventative for me, and I don't have any rattle at this time. Nevertheless, the car was happier for the work and has a New Growl. The Test Drive was Nice. :)

You were so close to getting the check valves since they were right underneath the valley pan but I understand you skipping them. Since my car already had JHM spacers I was only really in there for the check valves and the oil jet replacement. It's a long ass job to do spacers, the check valves and gaskets for the oil filter reservoir AND add in all that cleaning. I started at 11am and finished at about 6 with only a few breaks in between. Again, the cleaning and discovering more oily sand in every nook and cranny kills the clock on this job..

[SprintBlueWorld]

I started the night before, worked 2 hrs preliminary work and tackled the rest over 10 hrs. or so...I'll be Back to detail it all...someday :)

Congrats on getting the valves installed. The Oil Filter alone soaks up a lot. I Replaced mine today and had to add a quart after the test drive.

[mistral cytz]

I started the night before, worked 2 hrs preliminary work and tackled the rest over 10 hrs. or so...I'll be Back to detail it all...someday :)

Congrats on getting the valves installed. The Oil Filter alone soaks up a lot. I Replaced mine today and had to add a quart after the test drive.

Keep up the good work. The peace of mind knowing we cleaned up the intake areas is worth it alone.

I actually just put my old oil filter back in once I was done and kept it in a container to prevent it from leaking oil everywhere. My car only has 1000k on the current oil and filter but yeah I may have to add some oil today since it's showing below half on the stick since this job. Besides the spilt oil I lost mopping up around underneath the valley pan and filter housing, maybe the oil is also reading lower from the new check valves retaining more oil in the head than before resulting in less oil draining to the pan and reading on the dipstick?

[IslandHydro]

"My car only has 1000k on the current oil and filter but ...."

Wow, how many miles does the car have?

[mistral cytz]

Wow, how many miles does the car have?

Shit... I'm in Canada and I meant to add an ms to that, so make it 1000kms since my last oil change. Final answer.

[dolphin B6 S4]

Bump, my car is still good!

[Gosser]

How many miles since the service?

[dolphin B6 S4]

Going on 3k

[ZenkaiRacerS4]

Just picked mine up from having them installed along with a magnaflow exhaust. Still rattles at startup, although it does seem to be a bit less than before. More like a couple clicks now.

Will report back on cold start-up when I get a chance.

Looks as though I will be getting an accusump.

Exhaust sounds great though! A little quiet but that's how I wanted it, I know it will get a bit louder with time.

[mistral cytz]

Just picked mine up from having them installed along with a magnaflow exhaust. Still rattles at startup, although it does seem to be a bit less than before. More like a couple clicks now.

Will report back on cold start-up when I get a chance.

Looks as though I will be getting an accusump.

Exhaust sounds great though! A little quiet but that's how I wanted it, I know it will get a bit louder with time.

Whats the mileage on your car? I assume you had the check valves and the oil jet replaced? Strange how a few have done this job and experienced no improvement but makes me wonder if they are hearing another source of rattle since these cars can be pretty noisy on start up.

Since I did this job a few weeks ago my car has had zero start up rattle but it is warm out and I'm curious to see what it's like this winter (Not that I'm excited for winter...)

[ZenkaiRacerS4]

Mine just clicked over 100k a couple weeks ago.

[dolphin B6 S4]

Just picked mine up from having them installed along with a magnaflow exhaust. Still rattles at startup, although it does seem to be a bit less than before. More like a couple clicks now.

Will report back on cold start-up when I get a chance.

Looks as though I will be getting an accusump.

Exhaust sounds great though! A little quiet but that's how I wanted it, I know it will get a bit louder with time.

What oil are you running? I had 1 or 2 instances of start up rattle after my check valves were replaced, but the crappy 5w-30 oil at our dealership was still in the car. After I switched to lubro moly 5w40 it never rattled again.

[ZenkaiRacerS4]

It is indeed the 5-30 that the dealer uses.

[0396]

P3u,

You da Man. ...and all that contributed. Again, Thanks for sharing your experienced with our favorite car / engine.
Enjoy your weekend.
Ps. Next time I have yo touch the IM, I'm going to change the check valves out.

[pagrosse]

All,

I finally got my parts in (took 2.5wks from Bullstuff) and began the work. The disassembly went well ran into a few issues and made a few notes for others:

1. The T30 bolts on the valley pan nearly stripped. I noticed that grit and rust filled part of the head not allowing the T30 socket to be fully seated. I made sure to clean all the heads and pick out the grit.
2. You do not have to take off the oil filter housing from the valley pan (so I didn't need those O-rings.)
3. Clean as much as you can before removing the manifold as inevitably tiny amounts of grit/gasket pieces will fall into the intake. Since 6 or 7 of cylinders intake valves will be closed, you can suck the debris out with a shopvac
4. Quite a bit of oil comes out when the valley pan is removed, I'd say a good 1/2qt which drains down the engine. Anyway of purging this oil so it doesn't leak down the engine? I guess you can take out the oil filter and suck out some of the oil.
5. I found some RTV gasket material was lodged in one of the check valves! I do know the engine was rebuilt at ~12k from a dropped valve so I'm guessing this has been there ever since (now at 90k)

Still need to reassemble as I also found out the previous owner removed the intake manifold runner flaps! No wonder I don't have low RPM torque! I"m finding all sorts of hack jobs on this car but they are getting corrected...

[mistral cytz]

All,

I finally got my parts in (took 2.5wks from Bullstuff) and began the work. The disassembly went well ran into a few issues and made a few notes for others:

1. The T30 bolts on the valley pan nearly stripped. I noticed that grit and rust filled part of the head not allowing the T30 socket to be fully seated. I made sure to clean all the heads and pick out the grit.
2. You do not have to take off the oil filter housing from the valley pan (so I didn't need those O-rings.)
3. Clean as much as you can before removing the manifold as inevitably tiny amounts of grit/gasket pieces will fall into the intake. Since 6 or 7 of cylinders intake valves will be closed, you can suck the debris out with a shopvac
4. Quite a bit of oil comes out when the valley pan is removed, I'd say a good 1/2qt which drains down the engine. Anyway of purging this oil so it doesn't leak down the engine? I guess you can take out the oil filter and suck out some of the oil.
5. I found some RTV gasket material was lodged in one of the check valves! I do know the engine was rebuilt at ~12k from a dropped valve so I'm guessing this has been there ever since (now at 90k)

Still need to reassemble as I also found out the previous owner removed the intake manifold runner flaps! No wonder I don't have low RPM torque! I"m finding all sorts of hack jobs on this car but they are getting corrected...

When removing the valley pan bolts I cleaned as much of the bolt as possible and still had to lightly tap the torx bit with a hammer to get it fully seated in the bolt since I nearly stripped two.

As far as the oil seepage once the valley pan comes off, removing the oil filter which is obviously full of oil should greatly help with the oil spilling. I pulled out the saturated filter and put it into a plastic bag but still had to use a ton of shop towels to mop up the oil. Doing this job when the oil is stone cold should definitely help since most of the oil will be drained down to lower areas of the engine.

This job can be done without removing the oil filter housing but since the rubber gaskets under the housing tend to crack and leak over time I changed them out while I was in there.

[Squatteee]

How's the noise y'all that have replaced these valves?

Received all of the parts and will have my local do the installation including intake spacers and PCV. My ride has over 175k miles. A bit over a year ago started having bad cold start noise after an indy changed my oil with lubromoly. Always used Mobil 0w40. Then it became intermittent after I quickly changed back to mobil then now mostly occurs for couple of seconds. A few months ago the occasional warm start noise appeared then mostly went away when I changed to Castrol Edge Full synth 5w40. So I just wanna try these oil check valves out before I sign up for full timing chain service. Can't find my receipts nor records on what was serviced timing chain-wise at 100k miles. And no good records at my former mechanic but assured me the tensioners and guides were replaced.

[ZenkaiRacerS4]

Well mine still makes a noise at start up all the time after these have been replaced. But the noise is now reduced to the point where I am questioning whether or not it's the chain/adjuster rattle at all.

[SlickFix]

My parts are arriving tomorrow or Saturday. I hope to do this job on Sunday, and am really hopeful this will help with the rattle.

[SlickFix]

Guys,

I found two of these under the IM. What are they, and where do they live?






Also, I've got carbon buildup inside the intake ports(I think that's what they're called). Do I attempt to clean this up? If so, how do I prevent crud falling down into the combustion chamber, or whatever the name is of the place where I can see the valves?

[B5man17]

They are used for lining up the intake manifold.

[blackedoutt]

Go back a few pages, all your answers are here.

[bigbseehagen]

Awesome