Warm start rattle solved on my car!

[Slow4]

Just ordered everything from gap but there out of stock on the check valves how do I order it on that lambo site, the part numbers don't work and you can only choose a lambo. (Bullstuff)

Part numbers are the same on bullstuff; I got my order in the mail today.

They might be low on stock, FYI.

[lolo22]

OK got it just ordered it. Thank you.

[lolo22]

How long did it take you to get the parts from bull stuff, I haven't got any estimated shipping date.

[B5man17]

Less then a week for me but I ordered before everyone else did I think.

[Priest]

Hello everyone!
I own S4 2003 saloon. 53 k on clock and rattle on cold start.
I did same job on my car yesterday and finish today plus replace two rocker cover gaskets plus extra clean of engine ;-)
Gaskets order on ebay, FEBI cost 16 and 12 pounds.
Bits from this topic get from TPS, its main dealer in UK for parts from VAG group cars, cost 75 pounds.

Couple photos:









Under cover was still oil. Two valves looks and works good, so no idea is this work help on my car.
Car still in garage to tuesday as wait for tensioner for drivebelt. Doesn't look good and very laud.
I'll update info on tuesday ;-)

[Diesel_A4]

So I'm in that boat where I paid an ungodly amount of money for timing chain job... Still rattles.. Still..still...still rattles, gonna order the parts for this, can't make it worse

[Jake@JHM]

So I'm in that boat where I paid an ungodly amount of money for timing chain job... Still rattles.. Still..still...still rattles, gonna order the parts for this, can't make it worse

What chain kit did you go with?

Sent from my S5

[Diesel_A4]

I had a reputable shop by me do the work... I honestly don't know, was pretty broken hearted when it still rattled though to be honest lol

[Jake@JHM]

The most likely didn't replace the mechanical adjusters

Sent from my S5

[Diesel_A4]

So I basically spent all that money for nothing?

[Kookie]

So I basically spent all that money for nothing?

Check your invoice with the shop. Let's not jump to conclusions.

[dolphin B6 S4]

Check your invoice with the shop. Let's not jump to conclusions.

X2, and even if they didn't do the adjusters I'd still take the $250 "gamble" if you want to call it that, and do it. I have all brand new timing components and I still rattled after the service, but after replacing these valves and my oil I haven't heard a lick of rattle.

[Diesel_A4]

already ordered yesterday lol

[staubach333]

Are all the part numbers in the original post still accurate? I'm going to order this stuff. Also, what time frame do you guys use for the warm rattle? If I shut off and wait an hour, there's nothing. If I shut off and wait two hours plus, I'll get a little delayed rattle for a second. It's the same rattle as cold too.

[Priest]

All parts are correct ;-)
About rattle time, for me is hard to say because never checked that way.
But when i turn ignition and turn key to start motor and turn off and do same thing 3-4 times and than start motor will not hear rattle. Build up compression i think.

[staubach333]

So you are saying those part numbers aren't correct?

[Priest]

Sorry, my mistake ;-P

[p3u]

So you are saying those part numbers aren't correct?

The part numbers I originally posted are the correct ones.

[Hyde]

UPDATE!

Work was finished on my car Thursday afternoon. I had all of the parts p3u listed in the first post installed along with several other maintenance items.

When I came to pick up the car Friday night, I asked if it had been started that day, and my tech said it hadn't. So I turned the key and it sounded like a different car! Very smooth, with no unpleasing sounds whatsoever. "Excellent!" I thought, "but we'll see over the next few days."

I start the car up Saturday morning, and again I'm pleased to hear no negative engine noises at all. In fact the exhaust seems more pronounced; I really notice the Fast Intentions "roar to life" on startup that I was apparently missing before.

Day three: today I startup the car and again, she's smooth as butter.

So I'd like to thank p3u and crc for finding this and telling the community about it. I have a renewed sense of excitement about my future ownership of my car.

Obligatory completed engine bay pic. (yeah, it's dirty):



I have the original valve covers for sale in the classifieds section, by the way.

[jmcS4]

Happy to hear that more than a a couple members have shared GREAT news

[p3u]

Good to hear more successful work!

[SlickFix]

UPDATE!

Work was finished on my car Thursday afternoon. I had all of the parts p3u listed in the first post installed along with several other maintenance items.

Great news, Hyde! Thanks for sharing.

Btw, did you also install the JHM IM spacers?

[ak-s4]

FYI, I had the mechanical adjusters replaced during my timing service and still have rattle. When I get the most severe rattle, the engine runs rough and misfires, so I'm pretty confident the timing system is still not right.

Would also like to point out that changing the oil greatly reduces and sometimes eliminates the startup rattle for a period of time. I think it would be important for people performing this work to state what they did with the oil as well. No change, change or even switch to a different oil. That would clarify some of the results I think.

Regardless, I plan to perform this work soon.


Also, people claim the chains do not stretch (much?), but given my car has 100k on it, I wonder if they did stretch somewhat and that is creating just an extra amount of slack that has to be made up.

[Hyde]

I'll add that my car has 107k miles, and about 2000 miles on the oil at this time. No change was made.

Other work done at the same time:
• Intake manifold spacers
• Valve cover gaskets
• PCV valve
• Serpentine belt
• Raxles axles

[jmcS4]

I'll add that my car has 107k miles, and about 2000 miles on the oil at this time. No change was made.

Other work done at the same time:
• Intake manifold spacers
• Valve cover gaskets
• PCV valve
• Serpentine belt
• Raxles axles

Off topic question. How much did the raxles cost you? I just got quoted $250 a side after being told $175 by another member

[ak-s4]

I'll add that my car has 107k miles, and about 2000 miles on the oil at this time. No change was made.

Other work done at the same time:
• Intake manifold spacers
• Valve cover gaskets
• PCV valve
• Serpentine belt
• Raxles axles

Thanks for the info. The PCV valve is interesting, as that is a possible culprit for contaminating the oil and causing startup rattle.

[BCsniper]

Off topic question. How much did the raxles cost you? I just got quoted $250 a side after being told $175 by another member

Yeah I think the price for Raxles went up awhile back. They used to be $199 each and I believe they are 250 now. It's quite a high price since some auto store units go for ~$60, but with Raxles you are getting brand new OEM cv joints that should last a lot longer and put up with more abuse than aftermarket axles

[Hyde]

Off topic question. How much did the raxles cost you? I just got quoted $250 a side after being told $175 by another member

Mine were $240 per, and about $560 total with tax and shipping.

Thanks for the info. The PCV valve is interesting, as that is a possible culprit for contaminating the oil and causing startup rattle.

I've read that after some people change their PCV valve the rattle was reduced significantly, but mine is nonexistent. On the old PCV, with few exceptions my oil consumption was either none or less than a quart per 5000 miles. Only twice in the last 5 years of ownership has my oil been below the hash marks on the dipstick between OCIs.

Of course, I'll continue to monitor my cold starts as it's now habit with owning this car, and report back here. I hope to be pleasantly surprised.

[01northernS4]

So dealer is saying approximately 3 hours for this job and the parts below:

2 x Oil check valves - 079103175C $61.00 each
1 x Oil spray jet - 079115540A $33.00
1 x Valley pan gasket - 079103161D $22.00
1 x Oil filter housing O ring (double D) - 079115111A $8.00
1 x Oil filter housing O ring (single O) - N90959701 $3.00

I was told these parts may be needed also... what do you guys think?

1 X Throttle Body Gasket 079-133-073A $3.27
1 X Oil pressure switch 06A-919-081J $27.00
2 X Intake manifold gaskets 077-129-717Q $36.00 each

At this point, the valve cover gaskets have been changed and now this... does this cover all possible oil leaks from top half of engine? Valve covers were pissing and it seems the only leak left is coming from under the manifold where the valley pan is... also, my car has 90k km (55k mi)... is this normal for our engines? Seems to be an excessive amount of work for a relatively young engine... and I've gone through 2 serp belts also... one only lasted 15k km... dealer said the oil from the valve cover gaskets and valley pan led to the serp belt disintegrating...

Does all this sound normal? Not liking the frequent trips to the dealer...

Thanks again.

[Kookie]

already ordered yesterday lol

But more importantly, were your adjusters replaced on your timing service.

We need to know this, because your rattle may not just be caused by the possibility of sticky check valves.

[Priest]

So dealer is saying approximately 3 hours for this job and the parts below:

2 x Oil check valves - 079103175C $61.00 each
1 x Oil spray jet - 079115540A $33.00
1 x Valley pan gasket - 079103161D $22.00
1 x Oil filter housing O ring (double D) - 079115111A $8.00
1 x Oil filter housing O ring (single O) - N90959701 $3.00

I was told these parts may be needed also... what do you guys think?

1 X Throttle Body Gasket 079-133-073A $3.27
1 X Oil pressure switch 06A-919-081J $27.00
2 X Intake manifold gaskets 077-129-717Q $36.00 each

At this point, the valve cover gaskets have been changed and now this... does this cover all possible oil leaks from top half of engine? Valve covers were pissing and it seems the only leak left is coming from under the manifold where the valley pan is... also, my car has 90k km (55k mi)... is this normal for our engines? Seems to be an excessive amount of work for a relatively young engine... and I've gone through 2 serp belts also... one only lasted 15k km... dealer said the oil from the valve cover gaskets and valley pan led to the serp belt disintegrating...

Does all this sound normal? Not liking the frequent trips to the dealer...

Thanks again.

Fuck..g hell... Thats expensive! I didnt know that in US prices will be that high :-/

My car have 53 k miles and i did same job to replace this valves. If that will help for rattle than i dont think is too expensive or took too much time ;-P
Will see tomorrow when ill run car.

[01northernS4]

lol... Canadian prices but it's close... and these are discounted prices. Did you need the additional parts also? (manifold gasket, throttle body gasket and oil pressure switch).

Also, do you think the excess oil dripping from vcg and vpg would soak and shred the serp belt in under 15k km? I hope it's not too wet now since I changed the serp belt again a month back... would it take long for it to shred it if it indeed is the oil?

Thanks,

Fuck..g hell... Thats expensive! I didnt know that in US prices will be that high :-/

My car have 53 k miles and i did same job to replace this valves. If that will help for rattle than i dont think is too expensive or took too much time ;-P
Will see tomorrow when ill run car.

[Priest]

I didnt need extra parts. Doubt you need them as well.
Oil is never good for belt i think.
Anyway belt cost only 7-8 pound? And when you do valve change is easy to take front bumper and front section out or just hanging. Than very easy access to belt ;-)
I did that way. Only wait for parts (belt and tensioner) which should be tomorrow.

[Kookie]

I was told these parts may be needed also... what do you guys think?

1 X Throttle Body Gasket 079-133-073A $3.27
1 X Oil pressure switch 06A-919-081J $27.00
2 X Intake manifold gaskets 077-129-717Q $36.00 each

I'd do the gaskets, in comparison to the rest of the job.. those aren't going to make that big of a difference. It looks like those last three are more or less preventative. I wasn't aware the oil pressure switches on this car had issues, thought that was more of B6 A4 thing, hmm.. did they diagnose yours as bad?

Why aren't you using a good independent shop near you?

[01northernS4]

Well, they stressed the manifold gaskets so there are no leaks and the oil pressure switch as preventative since they are known to leak and you are in there anyways...

The throttle body gasket is cheap and not sure if it's affected...

I didnt need extra parts. Doubt you need them as well.
Oil is never good for belt i think.
Anyway belt cost only 7-8 pound? And when you do valve change is easy to take front bumper and front section out or just hanging. Than very easy access to belt ;-)
I did that way. Only wait for parts (belt and tensioner) which should be tomorrow.

[Kookie]

Well, they stressed the manifold gaskets so there are no leaks and the oil pressure switch as preventative since they are known to leak and you are in there anyways...

The throttle body gasket is cheap and not sure if it's affected...

Well then there you have it...sounds like you've justified the cost.

[01northernS4]

agreed... gaskets sound important and you don't want to duplicate labor on a leak...

oil pressure wasn't diagnosed as bad, just preventative... apparently they leak and again, since we're in there

also, serp belt chewed up with oil? how long would that take? did the serp belt a month ago so I hope it's not wet again from valley pan gasket

I have a few great independents but also friend at dealer that takes care of me... if shop rate is same the only difference is hours needed for job... just curious if 3 hours should do it. I don't want to be sinking any more cash into it than I have to...

thanks!

I'd do the gaskets, in comparison to the rest of the job.. those aren't going to make that big of a difference. It looks like those last three are more or less preventative. I wasn't aware the oil pressure switches on this car had issues, thought that was more of B6 A4 thing, hmm.. did they diagnose yours as bad?

Why aren't you using a good independent shop near you?

[01northernS4]

lol, we replied at same time...

Well then there you have it...sounds like you've justified the cost.

[S4ctoB6]

Just ordered the parts from GAP along with the JHM intake spacers. I get a very brief rattle at start up on cold starts and sometimes on warm starts. Hopefully I will be able to get this job done in the next week or so :).

[BCsniper]

... and I've gone through 2 serp belts also... one only lasted 15k km... dealer said the oil from the valve cover gaskets and valley pan led to the serp belt disintegrating...

Does all this sound normal?

this sounds to me like a cover-up for bad work

more than likely I would say that the belt was not torqued to just the right tension and that caused the belt to be thrown after awhile. Improper tension has thrown the belt for several members here on AZ. It always seems to happen with a day or a couple weeks of replacing the belt/tensioner. I think sometimes it has to be set just right or it will throw the belt off somewhere down the road.