Warm start rattle solved on my car!

[EvoRam]

The Great Oil debate has been covered in uncounted innumerable posts, shall continue on. It shouldn't be done in this thread tho.

Truth


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[m-ys4]

ill definitely give it a try!

[EvoRam]

ill definitely give it a try!

For reference I run Mobil 0w40. I have run Kendal Euro 5w40 in the S4 and didn't like it although Kendal (overall) has been great oil in other vehicles I've owned.


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[m-ys4]

and this is what you run in the winter to confirm right? but you go by standard 5w40 in summer?

[EvoRam]

and this is what you run in the winter to confirm right? but you go by standard 5w40 in summer?

Yes. I have run the Mobil 0w40 during the summer too. I have only run two oil changes w/ 5w40 since I have owned my S4.


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[m-ys4]

same here lol next would be my 3rd. ill give it a try definitely.

[EvoRam]

same here lol next would be my 3rd. ill give it a try definitely.

One was factory fill 5w40 from my PPI and the other was the Kendall Euro 5w40.

[jimichunga]

Still zero rattle here. Changed everything + pcv about 8 months ago.

[dolphin B6 S4]

I get extremely occasional, random, and short cold start rattles now that it's cold out. Probably down to what Audi refers to as "normal"... it's still 99% gone and it definitely fixed the problem for me. It was below 0 out today in Chicago and I still had no rattle on start.

[m-ys4]

This morning I had 0 rattle... I'll keep track out of 10 how many times it rattles. It was kept In the garage but still was about -2 in there. Yesterday here we had -33 so I did expect a rattle. For the most part I try to keep It in the garage at all times

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[Suasponte]

Did this job too, and also did complete pcv overhaul with an OCC thrown in. Cleaned all intake ports and intake manifold by hand as well and car ran great for a week. Intermittent cold start rattle came back and was a good 1-2 second on the morning of the 7th (-1 that morning). One question I have, my driveway is on a good Hill and I point front uphill. Could this have any impact on oil seeping down? Also my valley pan gasket was in real bad shape, worse than any I've seen and mostly metal colored with huge chunks of black coating missing or flaking off. Could I also be looking at a partially clogged oil pickup preventing the full amount of oil reaching the top of the engine, probably wrong on this one? I have a oil change due on Sunday and will pull the oil pan to have a look at the pickup and report back.

[SprintBlueWorld]

Did this job too, and also did complete pcv overhaul with an OCC thrown in. Cleaned all intake ports and intake manifold by hand as well and car ran great for a week. Intermittent cold start rattle came back and was a good 1-2 second on the morning of the 7th (-1 that morning). One question I have, my driveway is on a good Hill and I point front uphill. Could this have any impact on oil seeping down? Also my valley pan gasket was in real bad shape, worse than any I've seen and mostly metal colored with huge chunks of black coating missing or flaking off. Could I also be looking at a partially clogged oil pickup preventing the full amount of oil reaching the top of the engine, probably wrong on this one? I have a oil change due on Sunday and will pull the oil pan to have a look at the pickup and report back.

I don't like the sound of the "flaking". I have seen in this and other blogs where this debris can hang up check valves and or clog critical oil passages.

[Suasponte]

Agreed, I cleaned as much as I could but don't know how to get it out of the galleries and all the other small hidden places. Forgot to mention, my car had the timing chain/tensioner job done about 7k ago by the PO an audi tech. He definitely didn't do the check valves and I don't know if he pulled to drain pan to clean all the guide chunks out. Any thoughts on getting everything cleaned out?

[EvoRam]

Any thoughts on getting everything cleaned out?

Lots of time, patience and elbow grease. i.e. Shop vac and what not...

[mistral cytz]

Agreed, I cleaned as much as I could but don't know how to get it out of the galleries and all the other small hidden places. Forgot to mention, my car had the timing chain/tensioner job done about 7k ago by the PO an audi tech. He definitely didn't do the check valves and I don't know if he pulled to drain pan to clean all the guide chunks out. Any thoughts on getting everything cleaned out?

It's a shame you still have rattle right after getting the timing components replaced but definitely comforting for us who haven't had the timing job done experiencing start up rattle.

[jmcS4]

So i have good news. replaced the valves and spray jet and i have no more warm start rattle and sometimes no cold rattle. the cold rattle even if it does do it is barely noticeable which is an amazing improvement!

[m-ys4]

good to hear! I'm looking forward to my next oil change, gonna put in the m1 0w40 see what happens..

[EvoRam]

good to hear! I'm looking forward to my next oil change, gonna put in the m1 0w40 see what happens..

[thumb]

[jvitelli17]

Just did this Saturday. My check valves were closed but after i did this it has a better start up. However! look what my old valley pan gasket looked like!



Any one have this happen to them? Worried about the peeling in the motor, i cleaned it really good but can anything get stuck or is it all burnt/in oil pan?

Figured i would run some oil through there to try and flush it out, otherwise she is purring great and starts up smoother!

[SprintBlueWorld]

Exactly the kind of material that can hang a check valve or clog an oil passage that would lead to rattle or worse. Good catch!

[SlickFix]

Just did this Saturday. My check valves were closed but after i did this it has a better start up. However! look what my old valley pan gasket looked like!



Any one have this happen to them? Worried about the peeling in the motor, i cleaned it really good but can anything get stuck or is it all burnt/in oil pan?

Figured i would run some oil through there to try and flush it out, otherwise she is purring great and starts up smoother!

Mine looked like that, too. Good times!

[p3u]

Keep the good news coming people! I'm still rattle free since my original post of this "discovery."

[Gosser]

Just did this Saturday. My check valves were closed but after i did this it has a better start up. However! look what my old valley pan gasket looked like!
Any one have this happen to them? Worried about the peeling in the motor, i cleaned it really good but can anything get stuck or is it all burnt/in oil pan?

Figured i would run some oil through there to try and flush it out, otherwise she is purring great and starts up smoother!

How many miles when you performed this?

[jvitelli17]

How many miles when you performed this?

i had 112k

[jvitelli17]

Also, if you guys are going to do this job, remember your pindle caps on the injectors. After spraying them with PB blaster and waiting 15 mins, i had 3 crack and 2 looking not to great. I had purchased these ahead of time so i just broke the remaining 3 off and replaced all 8. This could really impact your project if you do not replace these because nothing is holding the o-ring on the injector without these.

Other than that, once the manifold is out it is smooth sailing from there. Just be ready for the flood of oil once you break the seal on the valley pan. i found out the hard way

[p3u]

Also, if you guys are going to do this job, remember your pindle caps on the injectors. After spraying them with PB blaster and waiting 15 mins, i had 3 crack and 2 looking not to great. I had purchased these ahead of time so i just broke the remaining 3 off and replaced all 8. This could really impact your project if you do not replace these because nothing is holding the o-ring on the injector without these.

Other than that, once the manifold is out it is smooth sailing from there. Just be ready for the flood of oil once you break the seal on the valley pan. i found out the hard way

There really isn't a need to replace the pintle caps unless you break them while removing the fuel rail from the manifold.

Also, oil shouldn't be flooding out when you remove the valley pan, unless the car hasn't cooled enough or its over filled with oil. No need to drain any oil unless you want to.

[EvoRam]

Keep the good news coming people! I'm still rattle free since my original post of this "discovery."

What mileage did you do this again and what are you at now?

[jvitelli17]

i agree you dont have to replace them, but if they break upon removal, what are you going to do but wait to order them. it was just a recommendation.

My oil was about half on the dipstick and car sat for about 6 hours prior to this job, just i figured this always will happen.


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[p3u]

What mileage did you do this again and what are you at now?

Performed at approx 105k miles, now at 128k miles.

[2004B6S4]

oil shouldn't be flooding out when you remove the valley pan, unless the car hasn't cooled enough or its over filled with oil. No need to drain any oil unless you want to.

I disagree.
I drained my oil via the drain plug several days prior, and when I removed the valley pan a bunch of oil spilled out onto the freshly cleaned front side of my motor. I believe the reason for that is that my oil check valves were still working properly, preventing oil from draining back out of the valley pan, but that's just an assumption.

[jr1415us]

Also, if you guys are going to do this job, remember your pindle caps on the injectors. After spraying them with PB blaster and waiting 15 mins, i had 3 crack and 2 looking not to great. I had purchased these ahead of time so i just broke the remaining 3 off and replaced all 8. This could really impact your project if you do not replace these because nothing is holding the o-ring on the injector without these.

Other than that, once the manifold is out it is smooth sailing from there. Just be ready for the flood of oil once you break the seal on the valley pan. i found out the hard way

You can go a step further and replace the interior filters and O rings as well, like these kits:

http://www.mrinjectorparts.com/store..._Item_TF6.html

[jvitelli17]

You can go a step further and replace the interior filters and O rings as well, like these kits:

http://www.mrinjectorparts.com/store..._Item_TF6.html

I replaced the pindle and o-rings while i was there. But not the filter, i just cleaned them with carb cleaner.

[Ritt]

Hi all, just finished this up with a laundry list of other things I did to the motor. Both my check valves where closed when I pulled them but look at the wear on this one when I pulled it. Also playing with it in my hand it almost feel like it sticks at times...

Hope this fixes my problem and the true test will be when I get the car out on the road this spring.

[m-ys4]

Hope it works for you man, this didn't really fix my issue 100 %, it made a difference but not much

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[perrytcolts]

I just did this at 190kms (118k miles) and rattle seems to have gone away on cold start. Check warm start later - hasn't even been an hour yet.

However, on idle, the car seems to be struggling - very similar to a vacuum leak but I've plugged everything back in.
But here's the caveat, when tearing into the beast I came upon the crankcase breather hose that links up to the PCV valve and found it was actually split open where it clamps to the valley pan.
See pic below


So we MacGyver-ed it with some basic plumbing skills (for now until the replacement hose arrives) and put her back together again and started her up after a little spin around the block, drew into the driveway, she started idling roughly.

What boggles me is that it didn't idle like this before we fixed the hose let alone doing the check valve fix.

Any ideas? Everything should be torqued pretty well and I'm pretty sure all hoses have been reconnected.

UPDATE: Just started her up. symptoms still there. Gave her a good rev and symptoms gone.

[m-ys4]

When I did the same check valve service my hose got fucked as well, changed it and problem went away

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[rjpiselli]

FINALLY GOT TO THE LAST PAGE

anyway, bought my s4 a few weeks ago; 103,000 miles, religiously maintained by po. after quite a few cold and warm starts I had almost never a rattle, but there was once or twice that there MAY have been a rattle that lasted for less than 1 sec. never the less I ordered the check valves out of fear that greater problems sit on the horizon, and last night I removed everything, swapped the check valves and oil jet, and reinstalled the valley pan and oil filter housing. that's where I stopped.

question, the check valves looked fine, however when I removed the oil filter housing there was absolutely NO oil that spilled out onto the valley pan. is this indicative of bad check valves? there was a post a few pages back where someone seemed to have stated this in a round about way, but I was just wondering if anyone can offer another reason why there'd have been no oil in the filter.

anyway, aiming to finish the reassembly when my im gaskets arrive (discovered ecs only shipped me 1 - not sure why or HOW anyone would ever need just one), so aiming to have this project wrapped up by the weekend. As stated I didn't have much, if any, rattle on start ups; but I will report if I have any in the future. Hoping that this is preventive maintenance against timing issues when done before real rattle sets in, and that I caught it early enough to not have cracked guides already.

[SprintBlueWorld]

Check all your vacuum connections and the MAF. When I put mine back together the MAF hose wasn't fully seated on the throttle body. This caused similar symptoms and eventually threw a CEL even the it was like 98 % sealed. These little air and vacuum leaks throw off the logorythmic computations of what the ecu uses to feed the motor causing it to run poorly.

[BCsniper]

My 034 MAF boot used to come off all the time at the throttle bottle and would make the car act like shit.

[Aundrealti]

FINALLY GOT TO THE LAST PAGE

anyway, bought my s4 a few weeks ago; 103,000 miles, religiously maintained by po. after quite a few cold and warm starts I had almost never a rattle, but there was once or twice that there MAY have been a rattle that lasted for less than 1 sec. never the less I ordered the check valves out of fear that greater problems sit on the horizon, and last night I removed everything, swapped the check valves and oil jet, and reinstalled the valley pan and oil filter housing. that's where I stopped.

question, the check valves looked fine, however when I removed the oil filter housing there was absolutely NO oil that spilled out onto the valley pan. is this indicative of bad check valves? there was a post a few pages back where someone seemed to have stated this in a round about way, but I was just wondering if anyone can offer another reason why there'd have been no oil in the filter.

anyway, aiming to finish the reassembly when my im gaskets arrive (discovered ecs only shipped me 1 - not sure why or HOW anyone would ever need just one), so aiming to have this project wrapped up by the weekend. As stated I didn't have much, if any, rattle on start ups; but I will report if I have any in the future. Hoping that this is preventive maintenance against timing issues when done before real rattle sets in, and that I caught it early enough to not have cracked guides already.

I did my check valves and spray jet at like 400 miles ago... and I get an occasional rattle for les than a second...occasional... whether cold or hot... so this may just be how theses motors are.. before it rattled all the time for longer period upon start... then I did timing and check valves and like I said its occasional.. 111k... so it may return,, as that may just b how some of them are....