Extreme Stuttering - Sounds like a Carburated engine

[pat_do]

Guys,

Need some guidance as this situation rose up unexpectedly. It's been a few days that I haven't used the car and then tonight I decided to move it. It started fine, and I drove it onto the other side of my garage. The engine was running for less than 2minutes.

2 hours later, I come back to start it again and it is stuttering like crazy, it sounded like a carbureted engine poot poot poot pooot. The idle would not go above 1000rpm, it would drop down and cannot be maintained.

The CEL was flashing and remain flashing.

I changed all my coil packs recently and added new NGK BKR7EIX gapped at .028'. All seemed to work well until today.

I tried unplugging the MAF...before starting the car...it wasn't the problem. I don't have my tools to remove the coil packs nor remove the spark plugs. I'm hoping it that!

Please let me know if this happened to you!

Pat

[LoKisSpYdR]

Flashing CEL is a constant misfire. It's likely coil pack or plug related but may also be injector related. VAGCOM it and post codes. Brand new coils and plug can foul. Check all connections to the coilpacks and make sure they're plugged in all the way.

[AudiFan6482]

timing belt...

[pat_do]

Flashing CEL is a constant misfire. It's likely coil pack or plug related but may also be injector related. VAGCOM it and post codes. Brand new coils and plug can foul. Check all connections to the coilpacks and make sure they're plugged in all the way.

I have applied dieletric grease on the ceramic portion of the sparkplug and the coil pack opening -part that contacts the spark plug. Could this be related?

How likely can all brand new (4) coil packs crap out?

All connections are 100% plugged in. I have kept my old CP and will be heading home tomorrow to bring the gear to swap them out.

Should I even bother buying NGK BKR7E copper plugs? I got the iradium ones...maybe they're the culprit.

[pat_do]

timing belt...

Why do you say the timing belt?

[pat_do]

The car would crank forever before igniting...then when it fires up...the engine sputters and stutters like mad.

Very worried.

I tried giving it some gas to no avail! Definitively no power at all barely was able to move the car on 20meters.

[vce1232000]

Recheck the connections to the coils from the harness. If they don't click all the way in. It will not contact and cause misfires and lack of power.

[pat_do]

Will undo everything tomorrow and recheck twice...I just pushed everything against the connectors to make sure they are all clicked in...doubt it's that.

[vce1232000]

I had same symptoms when I changed those things you did and rechecked connectors and 2 of them somehow got loose.

[pat_do]

I had same symptoms when I changed those things you did and rechecked connectors and 2 of them somehow got loose.

Could it be that I put too much dielectric grease?

[LoKisSpYdR]

It only has to be one coil to cause a misfire enough to flash CEL and run like shit. One bad one. That's it.

Dielectric grease is a conductor, so doubtful that's the cause.

[AudiFan6482]

Why do you say the timing belt?

i am not seeing that its plausible that its related to spark plugs or coils considering you just changed them all and they were operating fine. i had a vehicle that the timing belt had a roller bearing blow out and allowed the timing belt to skip teeth. the vehicle still started and ran but it ran like crap and smoked a bit as well. when i pulled codes i got an injector issue and an issue with spark plugs.

its only a couple screw to remove the timing cover so its an easy thing to inspect.

also something else to check is oil in any of the spark plug holes you could have a valve cover gasket issue that's causing the coilpack to short out.

but find someone close to check the codes on the computer to narrow down whats going on.

[Schweini]

hey Pat,

if you can get a sound clip of noise I might be able to relate its problem to my problem. I was having the same type of ordeal out of the blue, my engine wouldn't crank and I got a grinding noise with no cell or anything. I change my coilpacks and plugs and nothing worked. It ended up being the starter motor. I took her off and opened up then cleaned all the gears and stuff. Pop her back in and never got the issue again.

If you have time, maybe give that a go.

[4rings5stars]

I don't believe it'll flash the CEL if it's a skipped tooth. Did you scan the car for codes yet? Make sure you move the offending coil around to see if the misfire 'follows' it.

My money is on a bad coil (or plug) out of the box. Mine has been running like this all week due to a(nother) bad coil.

What revision coils did you get? I've been replacing the ones that go bad on mine with 'F' coils. Just bought a set of red 'E' packs.

It's my opinion that the group within Audi responsible for coils, DVs and the PCV system are there to make sure apologists like us don't get too bored

[LoKisSpYdR]

4stars, I agree. Skipped tooth shouldn't flash CEL but should throw a CPS code.

[pat_do]

Guys,

I removed all the coil packs and did nnot notice any oil in the cavities so im ruling out the valve cover gasket

Im gonna go buy new spark pkugs

My coils are brand new revision f the black ones from europaparts

[pat_do]

Car cranks but does not ignite

[Acme]

Sorry to read that man.... Hope you figure out wtf is going on and that it's an easy fix!

[pat_do]

Sorry to read that man.... Hope you figure out wtf is going on and that it's an easy fix!

Totally blows!

I'm hoping that it's fouled spark plugs...ever since I've used them NGK BKR7EIX...I felt longer crank times but now that it's not igniting...it boggles my mind

[Schweini]

Totally blows!

I'm hoping that it's fouled spark plugs...ever since I've used them NGK BKR7EIX...I felt longer crank times but now that it's not igniting...it boggles my mind

sorry I miss read what you wrote, from the sounds of it I would check your gaps. the last time I got my own plugs and one of them was off I got the same symptoms as you're experiencing. The car would shake violently and then the idle wouldnt want to go up and then just die with the flashing cell. I checked my get my spark plug gaps and one of them was off more than it should have been. It should be an easy fix, hope that helps

[Biged243]

^x2 I was just about to say this

[Biged243]

And yes you can regap iridium you just have to be very careful

[pat_do]

The iridium ones I got from Europaparts didn't last more than 300miles.

I removed the plugs today and they were black and smelled like fuel! Gap was at .028...from NGK...I double checked as well.


I bought NGK BKR6EIX pre-gapped at .037 at Canadian Tire (I wanted the BKR7E but they didn't have the model) installed the plugs and the car started fine!


CEL engine remains lit and I'm not feeling the performance I had before the BKR7EIX took a crap. Maybe it's due to the CEL...is it in limp mode?

PAT

[LoKisSpYdR]

Possibly. Clear the code. What tune do you have?

Also I'd be looking to figure out why the hell 4 good plugs fouled in 300 miles. There are tons of guys running 7EIXs including myself. What did you torque your plugs to?

[pat_do]

Can overtorquing kill tthe plugs?

APR stage 2 hpfp

[Schweini]

Can overtorquing kill tthe plugs?

APR stage 2 hpfp

Yes, you can break them and then you have a whole new headache with a busted plug in your block.

Check the gaps and also whsn using that circular gapper you need to be careful you dont scrape the electrodes on the plugs. I use the same one, but the wire gap tool is more recommended. If you were rough with it and ruined the fragile heads, you can cause gapping issues

[4rings5stars]

Possibly. Clear the code. What tune do you have?

Also I'd be looking to figure out why the hell 4 good plugs fouled in 300 miles. There are tons of guys running 7EIXs including myself. What did you torque your plugs to?

THIS

[LoKisSpYdR]

Can overtorquing kill tthe plugs?

APR stage 2 hpfp

Yes, but so can under torquing. If a plug is under torqued, it is not properly transferring heat. This will lead to pre-ignition or detonation.

Torque of your plug is very important.

If your plugs are black that typically means that you are running overly rich or they are burnt due to over heating; but without looking at them it'd be tough to tell. As they smell like fuel, I'd lean toward rich. This is controlled by your tune and bank 1 O2 sensor. Are you running stage 2 or stage 2+? Make sure your O2 is tight and connector is good.
Have you scanned yet? I'd bet you have an O2 code and a rich code along with your misfire codes. You really need to scan it. Even if it's just a Torque app scan.

[pat_do]

THIS

I think I know why...

After a full week of not using the car; I started her up to move it a little further on the side of the house. The engine started up without any problems. It took me 45 seconds to move it back and forth. I turned the engine off. Then turned it on again to hear the sound then off within 10 seconds.

Came back 2 hours later and it was sputtering. I think I may of carbon fouled my plugs because they never reached operating temperatures.

Today, when I pulled the plugs out, obviously, they smelled like fuel and was coated in a light black residue...an indication of carbon fouling.

Lesson learnt I guess....start the car but don't shut off immediately.

Pat

[4rings5stars]

I think I know why...

After a full week of not using the car; I started her up to move it a little further on the side of the house. The engine started up without any problems. It took me 45 seconds to move it back and forth. I turned the engine off. Then turned it on again to hear the sound then off within 10 seconds.

Came back 2 hours later and it was sputtering. I think I may of carbon fouled my plugs because they never reached operating temperatures.

Today, when I pulled the plugs out, obviously, they smelled like fuel and was coated in a light black residue...an indication of carbon fouling.

Lesson learnt I guess....start the car but don't shut off immediately.

Pat

Glad you're getting it sorted, but I wouldn't think that could happen like that

[V2Rider]

Glad you're getting it sorted, but I wouldn't think that could happen like that

No way, this would be a first I have heard of. Plenty of people move their cars around without going for a 15 minute drive before shutting it down. Underlying issue.......your dumping way to much fuel is what it seems to me

[pat_do]

Maybe I was running a too small gap?

Too much di electric grease?

Definitively weird! I miss the bkr7eix wonder what caused them to foul

[PDX04a4]

A flashing CEL is almost guaranteed to be a coil pack going bad which causes misfires. As was said, even one bad coilpack can prevent your car from running. I have a very hard time believing that your plugs gapped at 0.028 was the cause of this problem, stock gap for non-tuned/modified car is 0.032 but running 0.028 wouldn't make that much of a difference. You need to pull the code to get an idea of what's going on, at a minimum it will tell you which cylinder is misfiring giving you a place to start (and you should start by replacing the coil pack, switch the coil pack in the misfiring cylinder with one that it's another cylinder and see if you can replicate the problem). If your plugs are heavily fouled you are probably running rich, you might have a vacuum hose leak which is bringing in unmetered air and your ECU is compensating by injecting more fuel and causing you to run rich.

Start with getting the codes, otherwise you're just throwing darts blindly.

[pat_do]

Misfiring on all 4 cyclinders. VAG COM'ed the car at CB Garage in Montreal.

All plugs were fouled and had less than 300 km on them. Heat range was 7. It was super cold Saturday night/Sunday night. Car had not been used for a week and was started 45seconds to move it around. Engine was shut off.

Plugs were carbon fouled because the engine never reached 450C. Today, we swapped back the NGK BKR6EIX for the fouled BKR7EIX...works like a charm no code, no misfires. Swapped back the faulty plugs and it was misfiring in all cylinders.

In the winter time, I'll keep the stock heat range. In the summer, I'll swap in colder plugs.

[Sanjman]

Have you checked the hose connections and ports on your intake manifold? If one of the caps or hoses popped off you can have these problems. I had the same symptoms (except I had a misfire on cyl 1 or randomly another one).

The ribbed hose in here, and the port that is tied down with zip ties.



Check the check valve



Basically you are checking for vacuum leaks...

Once you do this and everything looks really damn good, check the PCV and those components.

Lastly, if you still see nothing, you may want to look into doing a boost leak.

[pat_do]

Have you checked the hose connections and ports on your intake manifold? If one of the caps or hoses popped off you can have these problems. I had the same symptoms (except I had a misfire on cyl 1 or randomly another one).

The ribbed hose in here, and the port that is tied down with zip ties.



Check the check valve



Basically you are checking for vacuum leaks...

Once you do this and everything looks really damn good, check the PCV and those components.

Lastly, if you still see nothing, you may want to look into doing a boost leak.

Thanks Sanjman!

PCV was replaced 1 year ago. Vaccum leaks none.

It was the stupid spark plugs...they were fouled and too cold for the northern climate especially when not allowing the car to properly warm up

[Jake@JHM]

Misfiring on all 4 cyclinders. VAG COM'ed the car at CB Garage in Montreal.

All plugs were fouled and had less than 300 km on them. Heat range was 7. It was super cold Saturday night/Sunday night. Car had not been used for a week and was started 45seconds to move it around. Engine was shut off.

Plugs were carbon fouled because the engine never reached 450C. Today, we swapped back the NGK BKR6EIX for the fouled BKR7EIX...works like a charm no code, no misfires. Swapped back the faulty plugs and it was misfiring in all cylinders.

In the winter time, I'll keep the stock heat range. In the summer, I'll swap in colder plugs.

For the 2.0T NGK's stock heat range is 7 and Bosch's stock heat range is 6.

Both companies use different rating methods for designating a spark plugs heat range, so an NGK 7 and a Bosch 7 are not going to be the same. NGK's number goes UP for colder and Bosch goes DOWN for colder.

On the 2.0T. 1 range colder for NGK is heat range 8 while one step colder for Bosch is 5.

By using a NGK 6 you are running a hotter than stock plug, which can cause pre-detonation (pinging) and is not recommended.

Also, for those who don't know a spark plugs heat range has nothing to do with how hot a plugs spark is, which is the common misconception. The heat range refers to a plugs ability to dissipate heat.

I have more information on this here: http://www.audizine.com/forum/showth...=1#post9060324


Feel free to ask me if you have any questions.

Jake

[pat_do]

For the 2.0T NGK's stock heat range is 7 and Bosch's stock heat range is 6.

Both companies use different rating methods for designating a spark plugs heat range, so an NGK 7 and a Bosch 7 are not going to be the same. NGK's number goes UP for colder and Bosch goes DOWN for colder.

On the 2.0T. 1 range colder for NGK is heat range 8 while one step colder for Bosch is 5.

By using a NGK 6 you are running a hotter than stock plug, which can cause pre-detonation (pinging) and is not recommended.

Also, for those who don't know a spark plugs heat range has nothing to do with how hot a plugs spark is, which is the common misconception. The heat range refers to a plugs ability to dissipate heat.

I have more information on this here: http://www.audizine.com/forum/showth...=1#post9060324


Feel free to ask me if you have any questions.

Jake

Thanks Jake.

Do you recommend NGK BKR7E plugs over the iridium version? Are the plugs shown in your development thread the best/recommended plugs for a hpfp apr tune?

I will need to order the proper heat range plugs for my car.

[4rings5stars]

This is why I just use the bkr7e plugs and swap them out every other oil change with the cam follower.

Cheap and effective