Idler or PCV Whine? Okay to Drive?

[emcaha]

Started my girl up this morning to warm her up before driving down to Boston for the weekend. Go out about 10-15 min later to drive off and there's a loud whine, almost tea kettle like coming from the engine bay. Did a quick look around and sounds like it's definitely coming from the front of the engine. Pitch changes with RPM's and seems to just about go away. Haven't driven it yet to see if it will completely go away. Shut the car down, made sure all my hose clamps were good, waited a bit, and started it back up. Whine came back after running for a bit when it got back up to temp.

Doing some searching on here I found it's usually the bearings in the Idler Pulley or a vacuum leak from one of the vacuum lines or PCV valve. I tried taking the oil cap off and removing the dipstick as this appeared to be an indication it was a vacuum leak but it was all fine.

I did intake spacers a few months back and know there's a few vacuum lines near the front of the manifold as well as one underneath. Could it be this or is it more likely the idler pulley/ assembly going bad?

......And biggest question of all: am I still good to drive on it for a bit while new parts come in (I'll order today depending on what I find)? Boston is about 3 hours away so I'm a bit worried before making that drive.

Thanks in advance.

[BCsniper]

I used to get a whine very similar to what you describe. It happened on 2 different occasions and both times it was leaking from the intake manifold.

The bolts that hold down the IM are not torqued down very tight and if Its not seated just right then air will leak once the motor gets to temp.

You can drive with it this way. It mostly only whine at low rpm. It's pretty easy to fix this tho. Remove the fuel rails then loosen all the IM bolts. You don't have to remove the IM, just loosen it enough that you can lift it an inch so you can reseat it. Then just be very careful to tighten the bolts as evenly as you can. The time I had to do this the whine came back about 2 weeks later and I had to reseat the IM a 2nd time. The noise hasn't been back since, and that was about a year ago

[emcaha]

Thanks for that.

I think I'm going to pop the belt off and see if the noise is still there before I mess around with the IM. Talked with a family friend of mine whose a mechanic and he was leaning towards it being a belt issue. Easy enough to pop the front into service position and see how it's doing after that.

[Quadfreak]

I currently have pully/belt tensioner whine, but mine completely goes away once the car gets up to temp. Same with most of the cases I have read about. I would check your IM first since you said it cane back once the car was warmed up

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[BCsniper]

it's way easier/quicker to check the IM than it is to take the bumper off. Take an allen socket/wrench and go to a couple of the IM bolts and see if tightening/loosening some changes the pitch of the noise.


I just re-read that you just took the IM off. If that's the case, then this is 99.999% the problem. The IM likes to be a bitch sometimes and wants to sit just right. Loosen all the bolts and tighten them ever so perfectly while pushing down on the center of the IM. Once it is seated just right there will be no more whine.

[emcaha]

Alright I'll give that a shot. Just surprised this would pop up all of the sudden, been over a month since I took the IM off and haven't had any issues.

[emcaha]

Update: good news (i guess).

Just got around to working on the s. checked to make sure there weren't any loose IM bolts, gave all vacuum lines a second look, and then started her back up to see if I could diagnose where the noise is coming from. Let it idle for a while but no noise..... nothing. Let it idle some more, took it for a quick drive, no noise. Acts like it never happened and I did nothing.

Guess it's a good thing that it's not acting up but wondering when/if it'll come back again. Only thing that changed was the outside temp went up (was around 20 this morning and up into the mid 30s now). Going to take her for a longer drive here in a bit and will keep a keen eye to see if anything changes.

[Noahkk24]

I used to get a whine very similar to what you describe. It happened on 2 different occasions and both times it was leaking from the intake manifold.

The bolts that hold down the IM are not torqued down very tight and if Its not seated just right then air will leak once the motor gets to temp.

You can drive with it this way. It mostly only whine at low rpm. It's pretty easy to fix this tho. Remove the fuel rails then loosen all the IM bolts. You don't have to remove the IM, just loosen it enough that you can lift it an inch so you can reseat it. Then just be very careful to tighten the bolts as evenly as you can. The time I had to do this the whine came back about 2 weeks later and I had to reseat the IM a 2nd time. The noise hasn't been back since, and that was about a year ago

You are great man. Im going to drive my car to you and pay with 3 metric tons of beer to get some simple stuff done the right way.

[httuner]

I had that same exact whine for 2 months, I kept driving it like that but one day I go and decide to change out my front tensioner pulley for the alternator belt. The whine completely went away ever since so I figure I must have had a bad tensioner pulley.

[emcaha]

Welp, went out to start the car again this morning and boom: same sound happened again. Drove to my friend's shop to give a good look over and see if he could help diagnose the issue. He was pretty certain it was the idler pulley/ alt belt assembly. Went ahead and put the front end into service position then started it back up to get a better idea of what's going on. No noise.

I'm thinking it's something to do with the pulley system when it's cold out. Was around 20 this morning and shop I was working at is heated so it's at room temp now.

Looks like I've got an order to JHM coming, next big question is LWCP or go for it and do the full 6-Rib conversion.

I took a video of the noise and will post it up later when i get back home. As far as i'm concerned the car is fine to drive for a little while until parts come in.

[emcaha]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9cfNSq2Nm0M

Here's a quick video of what I'm experiencing. Car runs fine.

[Quadfreak]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9cfNSq2Nm0M

Here's a quick video of what I'm experiencing. Car runs fine.

That sounds much more like a vacuum leak than the pully to me. The pulley whine is a little deeper and more 'slide-whistley' with the RPM's...at least that is my personal experence and what ive noticed in most videos.

[BCsniper]

Yup, I'm still gonna say it's a leaky IM. It happened to me about 3 months after the dealership pulled my IM to replace valley pan gaskets. I reseated it and it came back again another 3 weeks later. I reseated it again and it's been good sincr, so these things can be finicky.

Just loosen all the bolts then slowly tighten them as evenly as you can while pushing down on the center of the IM

[emcaha]

Thanks for the input, hard to diagnose when it's an intermittent issue.

Driving home last night the noise wasn't present at start-up, drove it for about 15-20 min on the highway then stopped to check it out and noise was there. Drove the rest of the way home (about another 40 min) and noise was not present when idling in my driveway. Temps were hovering right around freezing all day and throughout the drive.

Temps dropped last night, snowed, and was up around 20 this morning. Started it up nice and early to try and replicate the noise but nothing. No noise just idling in my driveway or after driving to work today.

I'll mess with the IM and see if I can't solve this. Again, thanks for everyone's help.

[B00sted20VUSP]

Hey you ever get that whine figured out. This is what a serpentine belt tensioner whistle sounds like? This is what mine is currently doing. Not my car, but my exact sound..
http://www.audizine.com/forum/showth...tart-whistling

[emcaha]

Kind of although mine didn't change with engine RPM. I haven't figured it out yet, whine went away a few days after my last post and hasn't come back. Still going to reseat the IM just incase but other than that I'll keep an ear out for it and see what happens.

[emcaha]

Whistle came back twice in the past week, both in warm weather. As flimsy as it was my cold weather theory is now out. So I finally got around to reseating my IM yesterday. Now I'm concerned I did more damage than good. Oh the joys of doing your own work.

When I removed the fuel rails I noticed that one of the pintle caps was missing. No surprise as I had to reinstall a broken one last time I had them off. Ordered new O-rings and caps from JHM so I replaced all O-rings and installed a new cap for that injector. Looked down around the valves but couldn't find the broken cap, pieces either broke off a while ago or it fell down into the cylinders. I know it's not good but heard it's fine to let them burn up in the cylinders so I didn't go any further trying to get it out (or find exactly where it went). Continued to reseat the IM and reinstalled the fuel rails.

Upon restart I heard a loud "rattle" sound for the first 1-2 seconds then it went away and I noticed it was running funny. Soon after check engine light came on and started to flash before coming on permanently. Scanned and found P0305-Misfire Cylinder 5, same cylinder I didn't have the pintle cap. This morning I went out and cleared the code again; upon restart CEL was flashing for first few seconds then went away. Idle was okay but still doesn't seem to be exactly right. Shut her down, cleared the code, and restarted. No CEL anymore but something still doesn't seem right.

Later today I'll do my homework and switch around coils and check spark plugs to make sure they're okay. If they're okay I'll remove the rails again and check out that injector. My biggest concern is the rattle that appeared to have caused the misfire. Is there anything else I should check out or any other suggestions for what happened?

Thanks for any insight.

[emcaha]

Update: Checked out plugs and coils during lunch break and everything seems to check out. Swapped plugs with another cylinder but didn't seem to change anything. Harder to diagnose now that no CEL is coming up anymore and hasn't come back after clearing this morning.

Revving it at idle I do notice a shutter vibration that goes through the chassis at about 1900 and again at 3700 rpms. Idle still feels a bit off but nothing audible is different. Think it's a fouled injector? Will check them out after work.

[ZenkaiRacerS4]

Sounds like the pintle cap made its way into the combustion chamber and you started it with it in there. I don't know why anyone would say it's ok for a foregn object to be in the combustion chamber.

It's possible the pintle cap lodged in between the valve seat and valve while it was closing, slightly bending the valve. Or if it would indeed melt right away, it could've melted onto the valve seat.

I would've checked into all the combustion chambers upon noticing the cap was missing with one of those flexable mini cams before starting it.

[emcaha]

Sounds like the pintle cap made its way into the combustion chamber and you started it with it in there. I don't know why anyone would say it's ok for a foregn object to be in the combustion chamber.

It's possible the pintle cap lodged in between the valve seat and valve while it was closing, slightly bending the valve. Or if it would indeed melt right away, it could've melted onto the valve seat.

I would've checked into all the combustion chambers upon noticing the cap was missing with one of those flexable mini cams before starting it.

Yeah, I'd have to pull up exactly where I read that it was "alright" to let the caps just burn up if they get into the combustion chamber. I made sure the cap wasn't up by the valves for the exact reasons you listed above, I had to fish one out like that before. By no means did I want this to happen or like the idea of burning stuff up in there like that but sometimes you just have to do it. The original pintle caps appear to be more of a fiberboard or high fiberglass content material then straight plastic like the JHM replacements. If that is the case then the OEM's would have more of a tendency to break up in the combustion chamber and exit without depositing or melting much in the chamber itself. Those types of plastics have a much higher melt than a straight plastic.

Working outside after work in fading light doesn't exactly lend itself well to things like flexible mini cams and such. Flashlight and flood lights galore but no fancy equipment.

I'm going to check the valves after and see if anything looks out of place. I'm also going to double check the injector connections and make sure the pins aren't bent or damaged in any way. I did consider the idea of a valve bend or something more serious like that but wouldn't that throw more codes than a misfire that went away?

Edit: found a link I saw earlier: http://www.audizine.com/forum/showth...ght=pintle+cap

[BCsniper]

I've had one of the OEM injector caps disappear. It was gone when I pulled the IM so I assume it was lost long ago. I will say though, that I have experience the rough running and flashing CEL after removing the IM. I think I had to reseat everything to get it right again. If the fuel rail and injectors aren't set right it can cause the car to start mis-firing.