Output Shaft Seal

[CrazyCal]

*Read carefully as there's a lot of misinformation mixed in this thread*



I'm working on replacing the rear output shaft seal where the driveline meets the front differential and I'm a bit stuck.

The B6 does not have a center torx screw holding the output flange on as it's pictured in this A8 DIY: http://www.audipages.com/Tech_Articl...placement.html

So, my question is... how do I get to the seal?

There are three torx 45 bolts holding the final output flange onto the differential, do I remove those? You can see one of the three at the bottom of the flange in the pic below.

BTW, it's 01X 6-speed Tranny.

Where I'm at currently...

[SJorge3442]

hmm. I didnt even notice that when I just did my clutch. Maybe the 01E is different. I'll check in my Bently and see if there is anything in there about it.

[SJorge3442]

ding ding ding. Its a circlip hiding in there. Sounds like a tedious job to get her out. Happy wrenching!

[Charles.waite]

Cal, is it a spring style circlip:


or a snap ring:

[CrazyCal]

Well, shit. This is a huge pain in the ass. I have no idea how to get this out.

[boostedAvant]

Well, shit. This is a huge pain in the ass. I have no idea how to get this out.

Snap ring pliers if it's a snap ring. The other you could probably get out with a pick or a flathead. Wear some safety glasses... those things can fly out REAL fast.

[SJorge3442]

whoops. I guess I didnt look close enough. The pictures I posted are in regards to the front drive (half) shafts.

[CrazyCal]

Still doesn't answer my question. WHERE is this circlip? I see no circlips of any kind.

[walky_talky20]

If it's like the 01E:
http://www.audizine.com/forum/showth...ove-the-flange

*post #8

[Charles.waite]

If it's like the 01E:
http://www.audizine.com/forum/showth...ove-the-flange

*post #8

Hey man, sorry, I did not take pictures but assuming your setup is the same as for my 03 AR with 2.7t 6-speed, here is what you should be looking at:


Basically after removing four T45 bolts from the bearing housing (item #3) the whole "thing" should be pressed out by the spring (#11) and you should get into your hands all the items from #2 to #11.
Then you would clearly see the circlip (item #8) that looks like this:

And yes, your best bet is to use the tool like on the photo to remove or put it back.
After that you should be able to pull the output flange from the bearing housing and get access to the seal.
Hope this helps.

Good stuff Matt!

The etka diagram looks slightly different than that but its likely very similar.

[audinaut]

BTW, it's 01X 6-speed Tranny.

Are you sure you have an 01X? Bentley shows that only for a FWD.

[CrazyCal]

It's an 01X. It's weird, I know. My car apparently got some parts from the factory spare parts bin.

AFAIK, the 01X and the 02X are essentially the same transmission, just that one is FWD, the other has a center diff and AWD.

[CrazyCal]

Found a great website and I think I found the procedure I'm looking for...

http://workshop-manuals.com/audi/a4_...r)_on_gearbox/

I just have to pray that the seal that I have is the correct one. Maybe I'll order the other one just in case.

I have no idea how I'm going to press that thing out of there.

I really wish audi had left things well enough alone. The old design was so much easier.


Additional links:

How to remove the center differential: http://workshop-manuals.com/audi/a4_...box_installed/

JHMs Center Differential removal pics: http://www.audizine.com/forum/showth...2X-6-speed-M-T

[audinaut]

It's an 01X. It's weird, I know. My car apparently got some parts from the factory spare parts bin.

I've also run into that myself on a few things with my car. My Bentley does not show a procedure on the 02X for replacing the seal on that flange (typical of Bentley). I can only guess that it is the same as the previous generation. If you want the procedure for the 01E, PM me your email addy and I'll shoot the pdf your way. And if you want a pdf on the ETKA parts list and diagram, give me your VIN in that PM.

[CrazyCal]

The 01E is not the same process.

Here is the process for the 01E Output Shaft Seal:
http://workshop-manuals.com/audi/a4_...ft_on_gearbox/

[CrazyCal]

Been doing my research the last couple of days and I think I have a plan of attack...

As it turns out, there are two different output shaft seals used in the 01X/02X transmissions:

Oil seal (up to manufacture date 29 08 4) without additional dust lip.
Part # 02X409400

This oil seal also requires a 1.4mm shim.
Part # 016311391A




Oil seal (from manufacture date 30 08 4 onwards) with additional dust lip.
Part # 02X409400A




I had to check the manufacture code which can be found right next to the transmission part number on the bottom of the transmission:



The manufacture code is decoded as follows:

My code is GJW11024

The first three letters are the transmission code: GJW
The first pair of numbers are the day: 11
The second pair of numbers are the month: 02
The last number is the year: 4

So, this means my transmission is a GJW manufactured on February 11th, 2004.

Compare this info to the above dates correlating to the seals. In my case, I need the seal without the dust lip and also need the shim.
Which sucks because I bought the one with the dust lip. :(



My official plan of attack is to go to Harbor Freight and buy myself a 12 ton press. I can't buy the 6 ton press because the frame is too small to fit the whole differential in there to press out the flange. It's going to be much easier for me to press out flange, install the seal and shim, and press the flange back in rather than drive into town and have someone else do it. It sucks that I have to pay $129 for the convenience, but it's a necessary convenience and I'm sure this won't be the last time I use that press.



I plan on writing a DIY for all of this.

[SJorge3442]

It sucks that it wasnt as easy as removing a bolt and swapping a seal. Look at it this way. Now you will have a press for all sorts of projects. And the price of the press is still comparable to one hour of labor at a shop so I think your ahead of the game still.

[MikTip]

It's an 01X. It's weird, I know. My car apparently got some parts from the factory spare parts bin.

AFAIK, the 01X and the 02X are essentially the same transmission, just that one is FWD, the other has a center diff and AWD.

Thats not where you get the gearbox "assembly" part number from...

Yes various gearbox's use same parts...but the part number for the entire gearbox assembly is found on the drivers side about 9 o'clock towards the back.

The Bentley above is correct.

http://tech.bentleypublishers.com/se..._TransData.pdf

[CrazyCal]

Thats not where you get the gerbox "assembly" part number from...

Yes various gearbox's use same parts...but the part number for the entire gearbox assembly is found on the drivers side about 9 o'clock towards the back.

The Bentley above is correct.

http://tech.bentleypublishers.com/se..._TransData.pdf

Interesting. I'll have to check that out while I'm down there this next time. It may be an 02X after all. Fortunately, I don't think it would change anything. Good information nonetheless. Thanks for posting this.

[sarge1]

This might be what your looking for.

http://forums.audiworld.com/showthre...t=transmission

[CrazyCal]

Nope. I don't think so. That's for a TIP tranny.

Edit: That's actually for an 01A 5-Speed tranny as I discovered a few posts down.

[audinaut]

Great info! Appreciate you posting all that up.

My official plan of attack is to go to Harbor Freight and buy myself a 12 ton press.

FWIW, if you plan on keeping the press, you might consider spending a few extra dollars and getting HF's new 20-ton press -- clicky thingy. Searching that site will give you threads on why someone would consider the 20-ton over the 12-ton when it comes to automotive work.

Also, don't know if you are factoring in any HF coupons on that 12-ton price, but you should be able to purchase any of their presses with their common 20% or 25% off coupons.

[CrazyCal]

This might be what your looking for.

http://forums.audiworld.com/showthre...t=transmission

Nope. I don't think so. That's for a TIP tranny.

Currently looking at this more closely.

Edit: This, officially will not work. This is for the 5-Speed Manual 01A Transmission.

You can see this process listed here: http://workshop-manuals.com/audi/a4_..._differential/

[CrazyCal]

So, I just got off the phone with a very nice guy from Audi. They were able to shed some light on all of this....

The 02X409400 seal does not require a new shim. You may reuse the old shim. It is also possible that the seal comes with a new shim in the package, but this guy didn't know for sure. What he did tell me is that there are very few of these seals left in the country.

Audi is totally phasing out the 02X409400 seal in favor of the updated 02X409400A seal, but the updated seal requires an updated flange, in addition. The new flange is not cheap (~$500 from the dealership), but the part number for the updated flange is: 02x409809C

[walky_talky20]

Worst case, you could use the new seal, and just cut off the dust lip with a razor blade knife. Not a huge deal.

[evo_ski]

FWD conversion should fix all of that.

[Charles.waite]

FWD conversion should fix all of that.

That or a sallytronic swap.


Posted from my iPhone. Any misspellings are Siri's fault.

[CrazyCal]

Worst case, you could use the new seal, and just cut off the dust lip with a razor blade knife. Not a huge deal.

Maybe. The diameter, we know, will be the same, but the thickness of the seal may be different. Remember the non-lip seal uses a shim, so the lipped version may be thicker to compensate for the lack of shim. We will know when I receive the non-lip seal. I'll post pics so we know for sure if that could be a viable option.

[rollerton]

There are three torx 45 bolts holding the final output flange onto the differential, do I remove those? You can see one of the three at the bottom of the flange in the pic below.

Cal--
I have an 01E sitting here that I'm putting in my S6 and I'm replacing the axle/ propshaft seal. It looks identical for seal replacement. You don't need any stinkin press. You got it right; remove the remaining TORX bolts and that flange will come off with the stub-output shaft. Careful, there are soem shims behind it. I don't know how critical their exact order is, I assume VERY, but who knows.
When the flange assy comes off remove the circlip. It'll be the two-hole kind for the pliers. Once the circlip is off the shaft can be tapped out pretty easily. NO PRESS required.
As far as the seal goes, I can I can take pics of the 01E shaft and the seal...if the assemblies/ shafts are as similar as I bet they are, then I wonder if the 01E seal would work. There's NOTHING technical about the seal, it's a pretty simple like wheel bearing/ main seal.

[CrazyCal]

Fortunately, the press is still in it's boxes so if I end up not having to use it, I'll take it back.

Won't be able to really know anything about the seals until everything is ripped apart.

[walky_talky20]

I thought the same thing about 01E vs 02X seal being the same.

But ETKA shows:
01E = "01E 409 400" and is of size "40x52x9"
02X = "02X 409 400" and is of size "37X52X7"

The DD is 3mm different. And that difference is totally necessary. Why? Because German Engineering.

[CrazyCal]

Finished this project today. The press was a complete waste of money. The flange will come out easily with a few good whacks with a rubber mallet. Oh well, I guess I'll keep it around just in case I need it. Might as well...


Anyway, the process went ok. I used a washer I found at Ace Hardware in place of the 1.4mm shim. Brought my digital calipers along to measure the thickness. Found one that fit and was 1.47mm Close enough.

Also, found that the part ECS sent me had the 02X409400 part number on the package, but the seal inside the package was, in fact, the 02X409400A (the one with the dust lip that I do not have the matching flange for. Big surprise coming from ECS. Way to shit the bed, ECS Tuning. You guys can't apparently read part numbers that are printed CLEARLY on the part. Good job, guys. Thanks for the help.

The two seals seem to be exactly the same except for the dust lip, so I just cut the dust lip off with a razor blade.

The biggest pain in the ass of the whole thing is the top two Torx45 bolts on the differential housing. Those are a pain to get to. I used a long ratchet extension and a wobble joint.

Here are some pics:


Differential removed.





Output shaft flange removed.



Old, shitty seal.




The seal was shredding apart. There were little pieces all over that looked like hair or spider webs or something. I think someone (PO?) may have replaced this seal and didn't install it correctly.



Installing the new seal.





The new seal and my "shim".



Sitting flush.




When reinstalling the differential, be sure to first get the bolts finger tight, then screw them down gradually in a star pattern so the differential (which is squished between two heavy duty springs) seats properly. Tighten to 18ftlbs.

The 6mm hex bolts on the driveshaft are torqued to 18ftlbs too.

Reinstall the shield on the center of the driveshaft.

Reinstall your exhaust.

Done.

[MikTip]

Nice work!

[situcong]

what's part number for a 5sp? 016409399B or 01A409400B??

[CrazyCal]

No idea. This is for a 6-speed.

I suggest you take a look at some of the "workshop manual" links above.

[NaijaBerry]

Just came round to thank you all for your helpful inputs, I just did this on my 2005 S4, this thread https://www.audizine.com/forum/showt...2X-6-speed-M-T was extremely helpful to show exactly how things should look like most especially the portion of concern which was that pesky seal, done and dusted! Used this as an opportunity to do some exhaust tuning