Stage 2 Revo or APR??

[BaysideS4]

Considering I want less trouble and don't care whether one has x more at the crank or wheels or trap speed or whatever.

I came into Audi during the biturbo days of the S4 and while there appeared to be a turbo issue with S4's, I noticed a pattern that blown turbos = APR. Yes some were stock, yada yada yada. Yes other tuners had it- i know. Just giving my observation. But back then, blown turbos were almost always APR- at least my experience on AW. I had MTM for almost 50,000 miles and was in the build date for the "bad turbos." No issues at all. Not wanting to start an argument, but wanting insight on APR or Revo on this car. I'm going to do stage 2 soon and am leaning to Revo because I have just never felt APR was more than a good marketer. However, is there any reason to go APR instead of Revo? Even their exhausts sound like caca for this engine. Am I being too harsh? Someone open my eyes (or not)!

[13allroad]

GIAC....not much else to say other than I can tell ya I am glad I jumped on the winter sale. But at the end of the day like others have said go with a shop that you trust and has good reviews.

Sent from my SGH-M919 using Tapatalk

[BaysideS4]

GIAC....not much else to say other than I can tell ya I am glad I jumped on the winter sale. But at the end of the day like others have said go with a shop that you trust and has good reviews.

Sent from my SGH-M919 using Tapatalk

I've always heard good things about GIAC, just nothing much at all on this motor.

[BaysideS4]

GIAC....not much else to say other than I can tell ya I am glad I jumped on the winter sale. But at the end of the day like others have said go with a shop that you trust and has good reviews.

Sent from my SGH-M919 using Tapatalk

Except I'm not asking about a shop- totally separate issue.

[Alex1188]

If i could do it now, i would get in contact with Drive Motorsports seeing how they are looking for a 09 with stock tuning and get a great deal to be there Beta tune, they have been having alot of success with GTI, producing the highest numbers with great driveability and nothing but good reviews.

See here...
http://www.audizine.com/forum/showth...699-DM-tunning
http://www.drivermotorsport.com/home.html
http://www.audizine.com/forum/showth...-from-DM-tunes

[BaysideS4]

If i could do it now, i would get in contact with Drive Motorsports seeing how they are looking for a 09 with stock tuning and get a great deal to be there Beta tune, they have been having alot of success with GTI, producing the highest numbers with great driveability and nothing but good reviews.

See here...
http://www.audizine.com/forum/showth...699-DM-tunning
http://www.drivermotorsport.com/home.html
http://www.audizine.com/forum/showth...-from-DM-tunes

So you're not totally satisfied with your APR? Can you elaborate?

[Alex1188]

So you're not totally satisfied with your APR? Can you elaborate?

I was when i got it... but iv learned that they like to run there N75 duty cycles really close to 100% trying to compensate for differences in Elevations and air densities so they can sell to people everywere. In which i feel doing so... like you have mentioned kills turbos... which is actually killing the wastegate actuator by pushing it to its limits alot... So no im not really happy with APR overall, i will never buy an APR product ever again. But this is my experience. Yours or anyone elses could be different.

I like how Drive Motorsports taylors their tunes to your cars setup and have GREAT customer service, they also send you a programmer eliminating the shop all together, i want to get their tune, and for sure will once i get my car back from the shop from being rear ended and install a K04 or something bigger...

[BaysideS4]

I was when i got it... but iv learned that they like to run there N75 duty cycles really close to 100% trying to compensate for differences in Elevations and air densities so they can sell to people everywere. In which i feel doing so... like you have mentioned kills turbos... which is actually killing the wastegate actuator by pushing it to its limits alot... So no im not really happy with APR overall, i will never buy an APR product ever again. But this is my experience, your or anyone elses could be different.

I like how Drive Motorsports taylors their tunes to your cars setup and have GREAT customer service, they also send you a programmer eliminating the shop all together

Thank you for your comments. Me personally, I wish there was an MTM dealer in the US. And JHM used to be in Sarasota which is less than an hour from me.

[Alex1188]

Thank you for your comments. Me personally, I wish there was an MTM dealer in the US. And JHM used to be in Sarasota which is less than an hour from me.

I would get ahold of Drive Motorsports and see if they are still looking for a Beta Car, i bet they would give you a killer deal! And it would be as close to a custom tune as you can get, compared to any Tuner out there right now. Plus no shop fee or driving to one, all just plugging in there programmer and letting them do the work while you sit there.

[LINDW4LL]

On what basis do you say this?

Because that's what history has shown. For example, Revo and GIAC have almost always run higher boost levels than APR from what I've seen. This is over numerous platforms. I should state that I've never had APR, but whenever tuning comes up on here, APR is consistently viewed as the most conservative. I know for a fact that Revo has the most aggressive tune on the B7 A4 platform, and they often get flack for running way too much timing in the B8 S4 section.

I was when i got it... but iv learned that they like to run there N75 duty cycles really close to 100% trying to compensate for differences in Elevations and air densities so they can sell to people everywere. In which i feel doing so... like you have mentioned kills turbos... which is actually killing the wastegate actuator by pushing it to its limits alot...

How often do wastegates fail? Extremely rarely. Do other tuners not do this? (I really don't know).

[BaysideS4]

Because that's what history has shown. For example, Revo and GIAC have almost always run higher boost levels than APR from what I've seen. This is over numerous platforms. I should state that I've never had APR, but whenever tuning comes up on here, APR is consistently viewed as the most conservative. I know for a fact that Revo has the most aggressive tune on the B7 A4 platform, and they often get flack for running way too much timing in the B8 S4 section.



How often do wastegates fail? Extremely rarely. Do other tuners not do this? (I really don't know).

Hmmm. Not convinced. There's a place for everyone I suppose. I've never seen a reason to go APR. My Impression is that it is where the younger people go. And honestly, I don't know crap about Revo. My 13 years of Audi ownership has not led me to a positive APR perception. I could be wrong, but my gut is telling me to run. Just like another Alabama native: Forrest Gump.

[Alex1188]

How often do wastegates fail? Extremely rarely. Do other tuners not do this? (I really don't know).

Im not gonna get into this again lol...yes people think wastegates dont fail that often...but most people dont live in high enough altitudes to see that they are actually killing their wastegates. In a higher altitude the wastegate has to be shut or closed more often, and see less positive pressure from the N75 valve to increase boost.

If you live in low altitude, you have a more dense air to allow the turbo to build even more boost, and even more to work with, therefore the wastegate has to constantly be seeing different pressures, opening and closing and allowing more air to be either diverter to the wastegate actuator or back into the turbo inlet, or both at the same time. Either way your gonna see drastic changes in pressure and have a denser air to work with. So at low altitude you making your wastegate actuator work its butt off slamming it open and closed everytime you go WOT to Off the throttle. all this over and over with i high duty cycle, and repeated heat cycles, kills a wastegate actuator.

Now if you were like me and lived at sea level in North Carolina then moved to the mile high city in Colorado, were now my turbo has to do the work and work its butt off to build boost and the wastegate is pretty much closed all the time, not gonna happen cuz i killed the spring inside the wastegate actuator from a high duty cycle at low altitude... and its not just duty cycle that kills the wastegate, there are alot of other variables, and no im not a tuner and i dont know everything. but this is what i have collected from multiple sources and people. and i understand APR needs to sell to everyone to be a top competitor in the Performance industry, so there gonna do everything they can to market to people like creating a tune that they say is okay for high altitude, but honestly that isnt completely true.

Talk with any local tuner here in denver and none of them with say GO APR!

[LINDW4LL]

APR is one of the most conservative tuners out there. I'd go APR or GIAC.

[BaysideS4]

APR is one of the most conservative tuners out there. I'd go APR or GIAC.

On what basis do you say this?

[zzDuality]

Considering I want less trouble and don't care whether one has x more at the crank or wheels or trap speed or whatever.

I came into Audi during the biturbo days of the S4 and while there appeared to be a turbo issue with S4's, I noticed a pattern that blown turbos = APR. Yes some were stock, yada yada yada. Yes other tuners had it- i know. Just giving my observation. But back then, blown turbos were almost always APR- at least my experience on AW. I had MTM for almost 50,000 miles and was in the build date for the "bad turbos." No issues at all. Not wanting to start an argument, but wanting insight on APR or Revo on this car. I'm going to do stage 2 soon and am leaning to Revo because I have just never felt APR was more than a good marketer. However, is there any reason to go APR instead of Revo? Even their exhausts sound like caca for this engine. Am I being too harsh? Someone open my eyes (or not)!

I spoke with someone from unitronic and he told me it was all the same tune just a different name.

[k9lovr]

I am happy with APR however if I had the option I would get a custom tune for my application as this is the best way to get most bang for your buck....

[oc cc]

As someone who worked in the industry and seen APR's facility in person and got the privilege of seeing some of the behind-the-scenes stuff, I am an APR customer for life. Their manufacturing, design, engineering- it is 100% without a doubt unmatched in the industry. The level of investment and R&D they do is impressive and worthy of a company much larger, and considering that APR is the largest of them all by far, I would say they are a safe choice. Once you get to see some of the talent they poached from other huge name companies (Microsoft for example), it really blows you away.

[hookahmaster]

Well I have heard from many reliable sources that Giac and unitronics are very unstable/unreliable tunes. I heard APR and Revo are now both good reliable tunes, I have Revo on my 2013 b8.5 audi a4 manual quattro. I had it since 1k miles and am now at nearly 8k, I drive it pretty harsh and have never had an issue. Of course that isn't enough to make a solid statement, but From everything I heard It seems Revo is the most reliable tune to do. My brother also has a revo stage 2 tune on his 2008 audi a3 since 18k miles and is now at over 70k miles and has never had a single issue at all. He takes very good care of his car, but shops and dealors always tell us that they cannot believe that the car does not have a single sign of an engine problem especially considering stage 2 tune. So from what I heard and experienced revo is a reliable tune.

[van462]

A little advice prior to tuning a early model B8. The IHI (the K03 variant in the B8)turbo has an issue with either a wastegate spring weakening or a wastegate arm bushing getting sloppy. I can't say for certain its a spring unless I change out the bushing first. Alex1188 as you will see in the linked post has had similar results; and talking to audi service manager the turbo have a fairly high replace rate. The turbo is dealership changed as the wastegate isn't considered a service component. I would check for movement in the wastegate actuator rod prior to a tune. The wear in the turbo will cause a loss of power and not usually throw a code for some time. It definitely impacts low boost performance (high altitude driving will even more so show the weakness). You can check the actuator without any disassembly if you know where to look. Airbox removal not required.
See post http://www.audizine.com/forum/showth...ighlight=p0299

I have APR stage 2 for 20K miles and I don't have any complaints. I do think its a little conservative. I don't think the difference between the 91 and 93 tune is that noticeable. I moved from sea level Virginia and drove thru Wyoming at 8k feet elevation on 91 octane gas and never switched files. The small turbo actually amazed me at altitude, as it compensated fairly well. The biggest difference I enjoy with a tune is that at highway speeds you can tackle some fairly aggressive inclines and the car stays in 6th gear (on a 6 speed auto) and holds speed. I don't think they make the most of available power; but it did simple work well with whatever the premium fuel level that was available. A company their size can't really afford to be too aggressive in tuning, it doesn't take many photos of connecting rod punched thru the engine block to knock you down in the market.
For highest output I think Revo has an edge. APR is just really easy to live with. I don't think they cause any issues, a tune just shows factory flaws earlier.
I think the highest gains with an IHI KO3 will come from more aggressive timing. Here fuel quality is going to play a major factor. Now if Drive Motorsports can package a tune, coupled with a water meth package then they have a market changer. If they use a low meth input to scale back timing for a safety factor even more so.

[Dubheadrok]

For what its worth- (did I just spell that?) 2011 B8 6M here...went REVO at around 5K miles( Dec 2012?)....currently just under 60K...no issues for the most part. Did all 4 coilpacks around 40k as i started having a random misfire. (forget cylinder) Car was purring like a kitten after.

Recently went to the dealership and was told I have a "Bad Injector". Oh, and "by the way your TD1" lol.... I Asked what took them so long to find out? He starts fumbling around and getting nervous....he tells me " So, I made some calls to Audi HQ, and they will agree to cover it anyway". (yea right) Also that I owe him an envelope of cash. I've had APR software on a 03 GTI 1.8T and i thought that was great as well with no problems. So who knows... I'm sure mine will blow up shortly. Hope this helps even tho I kind of told you to do both

[BaysideS4]

For what its worth- (did I just spell that?) 2011 B8 6M here...went REVO at around 5K miles( Dec 2012?)....currently just under 60K...no issues for the most part. Did all 4 coilpacks around 40k as i started having a random misfire. (forget cylinder) Car was purring like a kitten after.

Recently went to the dealership and was told I have a "Bad Injector". Oh, and "by the way your TD1" lol.... I Asked what took them so long to find out? He starts fumbling around and getting nervous....he tells me " So, I made some calls to Audi HQ, and they will agree to cover it anyway". (yea right) Also that I owe him an envelope of cash. I've had APR software on a 03 GTI 1.8T and i thought that was great as well with no problems. So who knows... I'm sure mine will blow up shortly. Hope this helps even tho I kind of told you to do both

Too many biturbo APR ghosts for me. Call me damaged, I'm ok with it. I'm gonna go Revo stage 2 when the HFC comes. Maybe I'm making a mistake but there are other perception issues like getting a business card tucked under my wiper in Atlanta years ago to GO APR. That tool could have reasonably concluded that I had a tune already given my car. It was very tacky and honestly what I expected.

[JS + MS3]

Anybody knows a good APR shop in Los Angeles area? Thinking of getting my wife's A4 APR-ed.