A look inside the Valve Cover (Pics + Video) - 2nd oil separator

**shiro1745** · 11-07-2013 08:38 AM

First of all many thanks to Steve(Sweir1171) who sent me his bad valve cover at his own expense after I started this thread http://www.audizine.com/forum/showth...earch-purposes

Here's a video I took while removing one plastic cover piece on the inside of the valve cover, the one that covers the actual oil separator that we have built into the VC. It was noticeable in some places these plastic covers became loose, pretty dumb design, they seem to be glued and apparently after a while the glue just fails. The engineers at vw/audi messed this one up too.

This is one of the reasons our engines burn a lot of oil, the plastic pieces on the inside become loose and make room for oil to be sucked right into the valve cover going either straight into the intake manifold or following the turbo path depending on the vacuum/boost condition of the engine at that time.

Some pictures too

**shiro1745** · 11-07-2013 08:38 AM

1. We don't need to remove the VC to check if the Rear PCV Passage is leaking.

2. We NEED to remove the VC to check if the oil separator compartment cover has failed. There's no way to check it while the VC on the car because this compartment is open to the crankcase.

**alphaVR** · 11-07-2013 08:55 AM

So that separator doesn't look like its much of a separator at all...

**kaz02a4** · 11-07-2013 09:02 AM

It looked like popping off that cover for the oil separator was easy. When you say the plastic pieces get loose, it's where the glue has failed and opened up a passage for oil to get into the valve cover, correct?

In case I didn't already say it,

**AKO** · 11-07-2013 09:25 AM

How much oil could this be burning??

**shiro1745** · 11-07-2013 09:29 AM

Originally Posted by kaz02a4

It looked like popping off that cover for the oil separator was easy. When you say the plastic pieces get loose, it's where the glue has failed and opened up a passage for oil to get into the valve cover, correct?

In case I didn't already say it,

Correct

**kaz02a4** · 11-07-2013 09:36 AM

Awesome Chip. For anyone interested, the p/n is 06D103469N, and can be had on GAP (including a valve cover gasket and mounting bolts) for $148.43

http://genuineaudiparts.com/parts/in...&siteid=214407

I'll be picking one up by the end of the weekend.

**Sweir1171** · 11-07-2013 10:06 AM

Awesome Chip! Glad I could help and thanks for putting this together.

AKOeuro - before pulling that valve cover I was losing roughly 1qt every 1,000 miles running stage 2 and while I was stage 1. Currently I'm stage 2+ and so far so good....

- Steve

**kaz02a4** · 11-07-2013 10:27 AM

Originally Posted by Sweir1171

Awesome Chip! Glad I could help and thanks for putting this together.

AKOeuro - before pulling that valve cover I was losing roughly 1qt every 1,000 miles running stage 2 and while I was stage 1. Currently I'm stage 2+ and so far so good....

- Steve

That's where I'm at now too. I still haven't swapped my valve cover out, but that should change soon.

**00_Bora** · 11-07-2013 11:06 AM

so the new valve covers arent really 'redesigned', they are just newer with new glue?

**Charles.waite** · 11-07-2013 11:12 AM

Originally Posted by AKOeuro

How much oil could this be burning??

Its not so much burning oil as its allowing it to be sucked into the TIP, shot through the intake and into the combustion chamber.

This more or less seals the deal in my mind, thanks 10000X Shiro, you're the man for sacrificing this. Next paycheck I'm ordering a new VC for sure. Then disssect my old one and shoot a similar vid.

**kaz02a4** · 11-07-2013 12:13 PM

Originally Posted by Charles.waite

Its not so much burning oil as its allowing it to be sucked into the TIP, shot through the intake and into the combustion chamber.

This more or less seals the deal in my mind, thanks 10000X Shiro, you're the man for sacrificing this. Next paycheck I'm ordering a new VC for sure. Then disssect my old one and shoot a similar vid.

X2

**shiro1745** · 11-07-2013 12:17 PM

I have more pictures with better views and explanations coming soon. Just got home and start working on them soon.

**mr larry** · 11-07-2013 12:22 PM

Is there an aftermarket valve cover available that maintains the stock PCV/emissions ports? I'm moving to a state that inspects visually and am pretty sure my valve cover is having this same issue but I want something a bit more robust (not plastic).

**Charles.waite** · 11-07-2013 12:27 PM

Originally Posted by mr larry

Is there an aftermarket valve cover available that maintains the stock PCV/emissions ports? I'm moving to a state that inspects visually and am pretty sure my valve cover is having this same issue but I want something a bit more robust (not plastic).

Unfortunately, no.

**aluthman** · 11-07-2013 01:23 PM

Swap your stock VC back in at inspection time then swap back.

**AKO** · 11-07-2013 01:24 PM

Originally Posted by Sweir1171

Awesome Chip! Glad I could help and thanks for putting this together.

AKOeuro - before pulling that valve cover I was losing roughly 1qt every 1,000 miles running stage 2 and while I was stage 1. Currently I'm stage 2+ and so far so good....

- Steve

Right now im losing about 1qt every 2,000 miles on stage 1! So you arent losing any after swapping the vc?

Originally Posted by Charles.waite

Its not so much burning oil as its allowing it to be sucked into the TIP, shot through the intake and into the combustion chamber.

This more or less seals the deal in my mind, thanks 10000X Shiro, you're the man for sacrificing this. Next paycheck I'm ordering a new VC for sure. Then disssect my old one and shoot a similar vid.

Is there a way i can confirm this with out taking off my VC? Could this be why my exhaust gets so much carbon deposit?

**$nooze** · 11-07-2013 03:35 PM

I'm quite curious as to how much mileage the vc donor had on it?

**shiro1745** · 11-07-2013 03:59 PM

I don't think I'll be posting anything else today. I started installing a fresh copy of windows 7 on my desktop pc a while ago and it's been downloading updates forever and didn't get to half yet. I'm not sure when it will be done, then I have to install Adobe suite. Most likely I'll update this tomorrow.

**Charles.waite** · 11-07-2013 04:22 PM

Originally Posted by shiro1745

I don't think I'll be posting anything else today. I started installing a fresh copy of windows 7 on my desktop pc a while ago and it's been downloading updates forever and didn't get to half yet. I'm not sure when it will be done, then I have to install Adobe suite. Most likely I'll update this tomorrow.

Hah. Adobe alone will take most of a day. Have fun with all that...

**Charles.waite** · 11-07-2013 07:20 PM

So I finally watched the video Shiro, couldn't at work. Crazy how it just pops off like that. Definitely not normal I wouldn't think!

Soo the question I have is, you think it could be re-sealed? Like clean it off really well, and put a bead of high temp epoxy or maybe even something silicon based? Maybe an anaerobic sealer? Gorilla glue?

I just wonder if resealing that passageway could help?

**Mister W** · 11-07-2013 08:08 PM

Just a taught. Is it the glue that fail, or the PCV letting to much pressure coming in and breaking the glue . (sorry for my english explanation, but you get the point)

**p0isin** · 11-07-2013 08:35 PM

Originally Posted by AKOeuro

Is there a way i can confirm this with out taking off my VC? Could this be why my exhaust gets so much carbon deposit?

It is surprisingly easy to remove the VC. Should only take 10 - 20 minutes to pull it off and check it out.

**PNW Avant** · 11-07-2013 11:07 PM

But the tab you hold in your left hand ("oil dump opening") in the photo is always open on a non-defective valve cover? So what does it matter if that specific portion of the valve cover that you removed in the video is completely sealed at the edges from the valve train, or not? That is, unless the oil dump opening drains straight down into the crankcase and is not exposed to the valve train? I can't determine that immediately from this pic or your other thread. I believe you specify in your other thread that it dumps directly to crankcase - I would be interested in seeing how it is separated from the valve train, if so.

The rear PCV passage appears to still be intact, although there may be small leakage only you can see. From my understanding that's where the biggest oil burning issue would be, no? (TIP pulling constant vacuum downwards of rear PCV channel, regardless of PCV valve open/close position)

**Charles.waite** · 11-07-2013 11:15 PM

It's hard to tell for sure, but it looks like that large cover also covers part of the passage that goes to the TIP. I'm not positive though.

**PNW Avant** · 11-07-2013 11:26 PM

Don't think so. The passage the goes to the TIP is the big knob on the left. The only thing other thing connected to that passage is the front most port on the PCV cover.

**Charles.waite** · 11-07-2013 11:35 PM

I wish I could illustrate what I was talkingn about. Maybe I'll have time to do a quick doodle in photoshop tomorrow at work.

In any event it would be easy to confirm or deny what I'm thinking. I just can't explain what I'm thinking via words, haha.

**kaz02a4** · 11-08-2013 04:46 AM

Charles, are you talking about resealing that cover in general? I may try that. I think I'm also going to fill my old valve cover with water to see if it's leaking anywhere.

I'm trying to discern from the pictures exactly how the separator works. That is, where the crankcase gases go on their way to the rear breather. Also, it'd be good to look at where the front pcv passages are (inside looking out). Clearly something was wrong with this valve cover that spit oil into place where it shouldn't be. Now we just need to figure out how the oil got out and what route it took. I can't wait to get my new valve cover.

**shiro1745** · 11-08-2013 05:33 AM

There's a video uploading in the next hour so you guys can see all the openings and passages inside from different angles.

**shiro1745** · 11-08-2013 05:48 AM

Originally Posted by alphaVR

So that separator doesn't look like its much of a separator at all...

unfortunately ..

Originally Posted by kaz02a4

It looked like popping off that cover for the oil separator was easy. When you say the plastic pieces get loose, it's where the glue has failed and opened up a passage for oil to get into the valve cover, correct?

In case I didn't already say it,

Yes that plastic cover came off really easy, but I must say this valve cover was already bad and there were some places where the glue was not holding anymore.

Originally Posted by Sweir1171

Awesome Chip! Glad I could help and thanks for putting this together.

AKOeuro - before pulling that valve cover I was losing roughly 1qt every 1,000 miles running stage 2 and while I was stage 1. Currently I'm stage 2+ and so far so good....

- Steve

By the way how many miles on this old VC?

Originally Posted by AKOeuro

Right now im losing about 1qt every 2,000 miles on stage 1! So you arent losing any after swapping the vc?

Is there a way i can confirm this with out taking off my VC? Could this be why my exhaust gets so much carbon deposit?

I know I said in my other thread that there's no need to remove the VC to diagnose a bad VC but after looking at it closely I would say you need to remove it.
I'll explain this later with pictures.

Originally Posted by Charles.waite

So I finally watched the video Shiro, couldn't at work. Crazy how it just pops off like that. Definitely not normal I wouldn't think!

Soo the question I have is, you think it could be re-sealed? Like clean it off really well, and put a bead of high temp epoxy or maybe even something silicon based? Maybe an anaerobic sealer? Gorilla glue?

I just wonder if resealing that passageway could help?

I'm sure it could be sealed nicely as long as you find the right glue for this job.

**shiro1745** · 11-08-2013 05:51 AM

Originally Posted by 00_Bora

so the new valve covers arent really 'redesigned', they are just newer with new glue?

most likely, here's a picture with my old silver VC which unfortunately I don't have anymore

**kaz02a4** · 11-08-2013 06:18 AM

Great work Chip. I wonder if there's any interest in getting a manufacturer to produce a "better" OEM valve cover, maybe one without glue that can fatigue after heat cycling.

**Sweir1171** · 11-08-2013 06:31 AM

Originally Posted by $nooze

I'm quite curious as to how much mileage the vc donor had on it?

The car has 125k miles on it but it's been burning oil since I bought it with 100k. It was certified preowned and had plenty of dealership work done so I can't confirm it was original....

**shiro1745** · 11-08-2013 06:47 AM

I posted two more videos in the OP

**PNW Avant** · 11-08-2013 08:40 AM

Thanks for posting all the pictures and videos. This is great.

But, I'm still failing to see why its absolutely required for the 2nd oil seperator compartment to be completely sealed, as it already has three holes in it which expose it to the camshafts, etc. I believe a small section on the edge where glue has failed would pull less oil into the sepertor than those exposed holes...

I definitely understand your photo with the red line though - the closer the break in the seal is to the PCV port, the more likely that oil is sucked straight out without the seperator doing its job. Same with the rear PCV, any breach there would be as bad as the area you mark with the red line.

Where was this valve cover showing malfunction?

**shiro1745** · 11-08-2013 08:57 AM

Originally Posted by PNW Avant

Thanks for posting all the pictures and videos. This is great.

But, I'm still failing to see why its absolutely required for the 2nd oil seperator compartment to be completely sealed, as it already has three holes in it which expose it to the camshafts, etc. I believe a small section on the edge where glue has failed would pull less oil into the sepertor than those exposed holes...

I definitely understand your photo with the red line though - the closer the break in the seal is to the PCV port, the more likely that oil is sucked straight out without the seperator doing its job. Same with the rear PCV, any breach there would be as bad as the area you mark with the red line.

Where was this valve cover showing malfunction?

I'm afraid I don't understand your question, what three holes are you talking about?
The oil separator compartment is only opened to the crankcase in one place which is the oil dump at the end.

**kaz02a4** · 11-08-2013 09:13 AM

I think those holes are part of the plastic mold.

**shiro1745** · 11-08-2013 09:27 AM

Damn, nice catch, I didn't even realize there's holes in there LOL I was too busy trying to get everything uploaded fast.
So those wholes are probably designed to dump oil back into the crankcase then? I'm thinking this because they're very close to the edge, I don't see another reason for them, any other thoughts?

I don't remember exactly where the plastic piece came loose.