APR v2.2 occasionally going into limp mode

**adbender** · 10-09-2013 05:27 PM

My car was bench flashed in April with stock, 91,93 and 100 program after being V1 91 forever.
ECU would not accept the write program for ODB flashing...for whatever reason I was told it was a rare "Canadian" thing.

Anyways...my car will sometimes (20% of time) go limp after first start in am. Normal ignition, back out in reverse from my driveway and then bogs on the road after engaging 1st gear and trying to take rpms past 1000.

I have to then turn off ignition and restart at which time all operates as normal. It has never happened under other driving circumstances.

Not sure if its the anti-theft lockout kickin, as its clearly seems to be a software issue. I did just reenter my security code tonight to check

Or something to do with the cold start feature being deactivated as its seems more likely to occur after a cooler or rainy night.

Thoughts or experience anyone?

**apexit1** · 10-09-2013 06:15 PM

EPC light come on during this?

**The_Transporter** · 10-09-2013 06:55 PM

DSG issue possibly, and not tune?

**adbender** · 10-09-2013 07:01 PM

Originally Posted by apexit1

EPC light come on during this?

EPC light does come on....then goes off after restart.

Im 6MT.

**The_Transporter** · 10-09-2013 07:03 PM

Originally Posted by adbender

EPC light does come on....then goes off after restart.

Im 6MT.

Oh sorry :( if it's in your sig I couldn't see it. On Tapatalk app

**adbender** · 10-09-2013 07:11 PM

Originally Posted by The_Transporter

Oh sorry :( if it's in your sig I couldn't see it. On Tapatalk app

No worries, its strange...

I may have mucked around with the security lockout when i first tried program switching and possibly activated anti-theft.
When the car was adapting...my A/C stopped working and ADS would not switch between modes from the button for 4 days then spontaneously resolved.

I dont know if I have a funny ECU batch as apparently I can only be bench flashed as well. Just a pain but the car runs like a champ otherwise.

I just did a security code reset to see what happens.

**apexit1** · 10-09-2013 07:16 PM

DO you notice it more in the cold? I get an EPC Light on cold starts and it goes away 99%of the time with a restart. I took it to a shop last spring who took it to a dealer. Dealer said to replace the ECU so the shop had me get in touch with APR. Tech I spoke with said they had seen it before and it should go away replacing a certain engine wiring harness, informed my shop and they said the engine has 1 harness and can't be taken apart. No fix I've found yet.

**adbender** · 10-09-2013 07:39 PM

Originally Posted by apexit1

DO you notice it more in the cold? I get an EPC Light on cold starts and it goes away 99%of the time with a restart. I took it to a shop last spring who took it to a dealer. Dealer said to replace the ECU so the shop had me get in touch with APR. Tech I spoke with said they had seen it before and it should go away replacing a certain engine wiring harness, informed my shop and they said the engine has 1 harness and can't be taken apart. No fix I've found yet.

That my situation apexit1...seems like a cold start issue. Come the think of it, it usually happens when im in a rush in the morning and start the car and immediately go.

Will try and give it a little more time to warm up and wait for a fix.

**S4charged** · 10-09-2013 07:43 PM

Apr stage 2 here. I also get this issue sometimes on a cold start. A simple restart fixes it. I let it warm up a little after I restart it. Giving it gas right away after you turn on the car usually causes this more.

**SwankPeRFection** · 10-09-2013 08:40 PM

OK, so here's a question. If APR is one "not to mess with factory behavior or safety standards built into the ECU" why did they see fit to disable the cold start routine on ver 2.2? If this is possibly due to that, why disable and cause headaches for a bunch of people?

**riseabv** · 10-09-2013 08:50 PM

Yeah why?

**westwest888** · 10-09-2013 11:15 PM

It could be your DSG overheating.

**AndrewSuliteanu** · 10-09-2013 11:54 PM

Seems like a deterrent from getting a tune... I would go thoroughly frustrated/worried if this was happening to me 1 out of 5 times I get in my car

**apexit1** · 10-10-2013 04:09 AM

In the cold i get it nearly everyday usually more than just once a day...

**schirm** · 10-10-2013 05:23 AM

Originally Posted by apexit1

In the cold i get it nearly everyday usually more than just once a day...

Interesting, I wonder if this will start happening to me,

**apexit1** · 10-10-2013 05:27 AM

It is getting worse, used to be every few days and now I sometimes have to turn it off twice. This is of course in colder weather, only happened once this season so far

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I747 using Tapatalk 4

**integroid** · 10-10-2013 05:36 AM

Have you tried contacting APR? I am on v2.2 and have never had this problem and I typically start and go with my car.

**drob23** · 10-10-2013 06:14 AM

Will follow this thread, am planning to go stg2 sometime after winter.

**adbender** · 10-10-2013 06:15 AM

Originally Posted by integroid

Have you tried contacting APR? I am on v2.2 and have never had this problem and I typically start and go with my car.

I should. I anticipate they will suggest a reflash which means a trip to the shop during a crazy fall.

Will keep u posted.

**paul** · 10-10-2013 06:20 AM

on 2.1 there was behavior that would kick the car into "limp" and at times even result in the car basically being in neutral even though the gear shift was in D or +/- sport mode. This only seemed to happen in cold weather. v2.2 eliminated cold start and the problem disappeared. Guessing it was an anomaly with cold start and getting rid of it eliminated the potential for the problem to happen?

I would have the car reflashed to stock stock.. drive it for a week and see if the behavior comes back. If not then something is odd with the tune/car combination. Get it reflashed to 2.2 and see if it comes back.

**helix139** · 10-10-2013 06:25 AM

Originally Posted by SwankPeRFection

OK, so here's a question. If APR is one "not to mess with factory behavior or safety standards built into the ECU" why did they see fit to disable the cold start routine on ver 2.2? If this is possibly due to that, why disable and cause headaches for a bunch of people?

What headaches are you referring to, and how do you know this is related to cold start? All cold start does is run higher RPMs on start and heat the cats for emissions. It's not an OEM component protection safeguard such as (for example) knock sensitivity, overboost, underboost protection, etc. This sounds like something else entirely, and we don't really know if it's tune-related.

To the OP, try PMing Arin or calling up APR. I'm sure they'll take care of you. Also, have you tried using VCDS to pull codes? That could be revealing.

**SwankPeRFection** · 10-10-2013 09:47 AM

Originally Posted by helix139

What headaches are you referring to, and how do you know this is related to cold start? All cold start does is run higher RPMs on start and heat the cats for emissions. It's not an OEM component protection safeguard such as (for example) knock sensitivity, overboost, underboost protection, etc. This sounds like something else entirely, and we don't really know if it's tune-related.

To the OP, try PMing Arin or calling up APR. I'm sure they'll take care of you. Also, have you tried using VCDS to pull codes? That could be revealing.

That's exactly my point. I know what it does smarty pants, I'm not like every other idiot in this thread spouting off that it's a DSG issue when the OP's car is MT.

However, cold start routines are there for a reason and the ECU does some fact checking each and every time to make sure everything is working properly, especially for emissions. If there is a problem and the ECU doesn't see the expected result, it could drop it into limp mode for the hell of it. Unless we know specifically what the specific problem list is for the ECU to kick into limp mode is, one could easily say a bad cat or bad O2 sensor could cause the same issue. If the cold start routine is taken away, this very well could happen. Problem why some aren't seeing it could be where they are geographically. APR is in Alabama. The guy with no issues is in Atlanta. Other's in Florida, etc. The cold start routine isn't that big a deal in a hotter climate, but in boonville cold frigid hell, it could cause issues. APR has no business playing with these basic startup and diagnostic routines no more than REVO playing with other things that APR blamed them for. Yes, I'm playing the finger pointing ha ha game here, but I do have a legitimate case. I also have personal experience with how picky an ECU can be when you have an O2 sensor issue. On a previous car, I had a sensor with a slow heater element in it. If the car was started cold and the revs weren't held a bit high to speed up the heating, the ECU would trip a code. If the car was restarted after it was up to temp, it would be fine without having to help with the additional exhaust heat generated by a higher idle. Also, a higher idle during cold conditions also serves to move oil through the engine at a higher flow rate than dead idle at 600 RPM. When an engine is cold, the oil needs a bit more help to circulate better, the additional RPMs from the cold start routine helps with this as well.

Bottom line, there's no reason to dick with this capability. The thought that they're saving you from the dreaded carbon buildup headache is not enough of a reason in my book.

**Arin@APR** · 10-10-2013 07:41 PM

You are wrong.

**Luna's S4** · 10-10-2013 08:05 PM

Originally Posted by westwest888

It could be your DSG overheating.

But it's a cold start.

**Arin@APR** · 10-10-2013 08:10 PM

If you are getting a light on the dash, pull the fault codes and post them. Otherwise we are really shooting in the dark.

**SwankPeRFection** · 10-10-2013 08:57 PM

Originally Posted by Arin@APR

You are wrong.

What you should be doing is not messing with the cold start routine. There's nothing wrong with it. Leave it the f* alone! Either that or give people the choice of wanting it left alone or not. There are some people out there that don't want anything else out of the flash except the power left on the table by Audi unlocked and nothing more.

Also, how do you explain all these people having this issue. There's what?... 3 or 4 in this thread alone. I guess they all have "other" issues with their cars tho, right?

And what's up with the OP's ECU only being able to be bench flashed? Care to explain that one or is it all super top secret that mare community mortals cannot know.

**Arin@APR** · 10-10-2013 09:09 PM

Swank, you are strange.

Anyone with real issues feel free to contact us and we will help. Thank you.

**Ynnekdude** · 10-10-2013 09:20 PM

Originally Posted by SwankPeRFection

What you should be doing is not messing with the cold start routine. There's nothing wrong with it. Leave it the f* alone! Either that or give people the choice of wanting it left alone or not. There are some people out there that don't want anything else out of the flash except the power left on the table by Audi unlocked and nothing more.

Also, how do you explain all these people having this issue. There's what?... 3 or 4 in this thread alone. I guess they all have "other" issues with their cars tho, right?

And what's up with the OP's ECU only being able to be bench flashed? Care to explain that one or is it all super top secret that mare community mortals cannot know.

You're such a rebel, Swank.

**adbender** · 10-10-2013 09:31 PM

Originally Posted by Arin@APR

If you are getting a light on the dash, pull the fault codes and post them. Otherwise we are really shooting in the dark.

Sure thing....will run a scan on the weekend.

**PaperishPlastic** · 10-10-2013 10:31 PM

Originally Posted by SwankPeRFection

What you should be doing is not messing with the cold start routine. There's nothing wrong with it. Leave it the f* alone! Either that or give people the choice of wanting it left alone or not. There are some people out there that don't want anything else out of the flash except the power left on the table by Audi unlocked and nothing more.

Also, how do you explain all these people having this issue. There's what?... 3 or 4 in this thread alone. I guess they all have "other" issues with their cars tho, right?

And what's up with the OP's ECU only being able to be bench flashed? Care to explain that one or is it all super top secret that mare community mortals cannot know.

WTF are you talking about? This has been addressed before in a previous thread but you rather try to start shit. With people instead of using the search button that located on the top right of the forums.

**apexit1** · 10-11-2013 05:18 AM

I'll check my email to see if I have scans. I've cleared the codes since then.

**littleredwagen** · 10-11-2013 06:21 AM

Originally Posted by Arin@APR

You are wrong.

simple yet effective

**SwankPeRFection** · 10-11-2013 06:41 AM

Originally Posted by PaperishPlastic

WTF are you talking about? This has been addressed before in a previous thread but you rather try to start shit. With people instead of using the search button that located on the top right of the forums.

Really... Repetitive limp mode with APR 2.2 has been covered before? Maybe the OP's at fault for not searching either. What amazes me is that the people that posted in here having this issue, have just kinda overlooked it up until now it seems. Why would someone just "deal with it" day in and day out?

Also, I don't wanna hear all this "just call us and we'll take care of it" deal. I want to know why this is happening with more than just the OP because if someone was to get an APR flash, I'm sure they don't want the chance of this happening being in the back of their minds if it truly is linked to the 2.2 flash and nothing else. APR telling people to call in and they'll deal with it without documenting the issue here is hiding the cause/fix of the issue. The OP made a correlation that this issue started for them after the 2.2 update. Are they right, are they wrong? We don't know yet, but I want to get to the bottom of it and want to know exactly what it is. That said, I also don't believe that APR should be messing with the cold start routing on the car. I want a flash, but now have to rule out APR because they don't want to put an OTS flash that doesn't have this change in it. I most certainly don't want to flash my car with a product that's going to cause CEL issues time and time again. Last car I had was flashed at 10k miles and was CEL free all the way up to 130k miles. That's what I want, not viagra needing limp mode day in and day out cuz it's a bit cold outside.

**apexit1** · 10-11-2013 06:49 AM

It's not a cel, its the EPC light. Search my history and you'll see that I've tried solving this before. Like I mentioned before I've even taken it to a shop.

I found my thread over on AR. Arin please take a look

http://audirevolution.net/forum/inde...39975#msg39975

**Ynnekdude** · 10-11-2013 06:58 AM

Originally Posted by SwankPeRFection

Also, I don't wanna hear all this "just call us and we'll take care of it" deal.

Are you seriously going to say that? There are several variables that can cause issues like this. Why would APR attempt to diagnose the issue via forum post instead of actually speaking with the customer on the phone? If anything, as a paying customer, I would be insulted if a company did not offer to speak on the phone.

I'm sure OP/Arin will come back and update everyone once the issue is resolved.

**littleredwagen** · 10-11-2013 06:58 AM

Originally Posted by apexit1

It's not a cel, its the EPC light. Search my history and you'll see that I've tried solving this before. Like I mentioned before I've even taken it to a shop.

I found my thread over on AR. Arin please take a look

http://audirevolution.net/forum/inde...39975#msg39975

hmmm just noticed that you and the OP both have 2010s (I assume) wonder if its minor ecu difference for that MY, I have no idea

**SwankPeRFection** · 10-11-2013 07:03 AM

Originally Posted by apexit1

It's not a cel, its the EPC light. Search my history and you'll see that I've tried solving this before. Like I mentioned before I've even taken it to a shop.

I found my thread over on AR. Arin please take a look

http://audirevolution.net/forum/inde...39975#msg39975

It's a CEL, don't sugar coat it. Same thing. Also, I don't see anything in those last few posts in that thread that say it solved your issue or that it was something completely different. The dealer was poking fingers around. If you still have this issue, then get flashed back to factory stock and see what happens. If the problem is elsewhere, then it'll continue. As long as the ECM wasn't damaged or somehow corrupted during the flash process, returning to a factory flash should solve the issue if it really is the APR tune or the changed ECM logic they incorporate into their tunes.

**SwankPeRFection** · 10-11-2013 07:05 AM

Originally Posted by Ynnekdude

Are you seriously going to say that? There are several variables that can cause issues like this. Why would APR attempt to diagnose the issue via forum post instead of actually speaking with the customer on the phone? If anything, as a paying customer, I would be insulted if a company did not offer to speak on the phone.

I'm sure OP/Arin will come back and update everyone once the issue is resolved.

I'm not saying they should diagnose it via this thread, but you know how things end up dying off as they get resolved and no one bothers to come back and say anything. Heck, up until the OP and a few others mentioned it in here, I had no idea that there "could" be a small chance or correlation between getting an APR tune and possibly running into these kinds of issues. I'm sure there's hundreds of people out there CEL free and tuned by APR, but if there's even 1 that had issues, people would probably want to know about it... no?

**integroid** · 10-11-2013 07:06 AM

Originally Posted by SwankPeRFection

Really... Repetitive limp mode with APR 2.2 has been covered before? Maybe the OP's at fault for not searching either. What amazes me is that the people that posted in here having this issue, have just kinda overlooked it up until now it seems. Why would someone just "deal with it" day in and day out?

Also, I don't wanna hear all this "just call us and we'll take care of it" deal. I want to know why this is happening with more than just the OP because if someone was to get an APR flash, I'm sure they don't want the chance of this happening being in the back of their minds if it truly is linked to the 2.2 flash and nothing else. APR telling people to call in and they'll deal with it without documenting the issue here is hiding the cause/fix of the issue. The OP made a correlation that this issue started for them after the 2.2 update. Are they right, are they wrong? We don't know yet, but I want to get to the bottom of it and want to know exactly what it is. That said, I also don't believe that APR should be messing with the cold start routing on the car. I want a flash, but now have to rule out APR because they don't want to put an OTS flash that doesn't have this change in it. I most certainly don't want to flash my car with a product that's going to cause CEL issues time and time again. Last car I had was flashed at 10k miles and was CEL free all the way up to 130k miles. That's what I want, not viagra needing limp mode day in and day out cuz it's a bit cold outside.

Swank - you should probably take a Xanax before before getting on this board. Seems like you are always high strung and think everyone is out to get you.

I believe paper was talking about why the cold start got eliminated.

I dont understand what you want APR to do? try to help the customer over a forum that could take days instead of having the customer call them which could take minutes to fix?

I believe this was bench flashed because he had it done prior to the port flashing being available. He gives the date above in the OP.