Questions for JHM about SC Kit

[Axel-]

I guess if no one charges tax or shipping or labor. My assumption was that he meant it is really expensive to go beyond that. It is basically a $10k hurdle to go much beyond 300 whp. Nobody offers for example a smaller cheaper blower that maxes out at 475 chp instead of 800 or whatever. It is go big or go small, no medium size :lol:

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Trexturk price is shipped, no tax.
JHM Tune doesn't require shipping.
Magnaflow price includes taxes I believe (it's 600 and change so I rounded up to 700). Shipping is dependent on location.

As for your other comment, if the parts are a few grand on their own, why would you want to buy something that can't scale? And in my book, 475 chp (approx. 380whp, which is a 110whp gain over stock, or 40% increase) is NOT a small gain. But each person's expectation is different obviously.

[troyguitar]

You're still citing the absolute bare minimum cost and making several assumptions like being able to borrow a JHM flash cable and 40 amp charger for free, not having any emissions testing to worry about, and not shipping a huge magnaflow exhaust or paying tax on it if you are close enough to pick it up in person. How much did you spend on your tune + dp's + cb?

If one has no interest in building up the engine (something which has still never been done in the 10 years the platform has been on the road short of some unicorn JHM build that might or might not ever see the light of day), there is no point in a blower that goes past like 500 chp. I'd love a smaller (and lighter) blower or turbo to do just that personally. Just enough extra air to get the car decently fast without blowing stuff up.

[Axel-]

You're still citing the absolute bare minimum cost and making several assumptions like being able to borrow a JHM flash cable and 40 amp charger for free, not having any emissions testing to worry about, and not shipping a huge magnaflow exhaust or paying tax on it if you are close enough to pick it up in person. How much did you spend on your tune + dp's + cb?

Troy, troy troy :) I paid $500 shipped no taxes for my DPs and $720 for my Magnaflow, shipped and taxes in (shipping was a little higher for me as I'm in Canada).
As for the tune, I don't know since my tune came with the supercharger. However, in the regional forums, there's usually a few people that can help with cables and stuff unless maybe if you live in Omaha or some other butt fuck nowhere town.

If one has no interest in building up the engine (something which has still never been done in the 10 years the platform has been on the road short of some unicorn JHM build that might or might not ever see the light of day), there is no point in a blower that goes past like 500 chp. I'd love a smaller (and lighter) blower or turbo to do just that personally. Just enough extra air to get the car decently fast without blowing stuff up.

They're selling built engines faster than they can build them last I checked. Not all built engines are for stage 2 cars they're working on. I think one was even for a guy in Hawaii lol.

[Omerta]

Define small gains. Shaving off 0.5 to 1 second in the 1/4 mile for $1200 isn't too shabby IMO but everyone has a different perspective.

I'm talking about just whp gains, not 1/4" times. That being said, if you're gaining that much - I'd bank on it being driver improvement over power gains making the difference.

JHM Tune: $500
Trexturk 2.5" DPs: $500
Magnaflow 2.5" X-Pipe catback: $700

You can easily shave off 0.5 seconds with that (and possibly more).

Thats $1700 with no tax, shipping or labor....

25 whp / 15 wtq for ~$3k of bolt on mods is not bad... but you really can't get anything beyond that unless you go for FI in which choices are very restricted thus far.

I've been playing with a few ideas of sizing a single large turbo, but I need to spend some more time dimensioning where to stick it. Let alone the tuning, plumbing, potential quenching, and unknown limits of the engines materials. The engine was built to be a high revving, efficient breather with lightweight internals and an aluminum block. It would be awesome if JHM could share some of their R&D on the engines limits because it feels like the risk might not be worth the payoff vs. tuning smaller more robust engines.

Has anyone looked into putting the RS4 DI system on in the S4 or is that just to much of a nightmare?

[Slow4]

I'd love a smaller (and lighter) blower or turbo to do just that personally. Just enough extra air to get the car decently fast without blowing stuff up.

Let me get this straight, you want to introduce a small amount force induction INTO your engine without any supporting mods OR tune and hope that it DOESN'T BLOW UP but you shun at the idea of modding the surroundings prior to force induction?

[troyguitar]

Troy, troy troy :) I paid $500 shipped no taxes for my DPs and $720 for my Magnaflow, shipped and taxes in (shipping was a little higher for me as I'm in Canada).
As for the tune, I don't know since my tune came with the supercharger. However, in the regional forums, there's usually a few people that can help with cables and stuff unless maybe if you live in Omaha or some other butt fuck nowhere town.

Right, so you spent $1220 + at least $500 for the tune, that's $1720 bare minimum. You said it can be done for $1200 - that was the issue I took with you. 5 + 5 + 7 != 12.

Let me get this straight, you want to introduce a small amount force induction INTO your engine without any supporting mods OR tune and hope that it DOESN'T BLOW UP but you shun at the idea of modding the surroundings prior to force induction?

Who said anything about NOT tuning? Why are built internals necessary for 450-500 chp with a smaller blower but not with JHM's blower?

[Axel-]

I'm talking about just whp gains, not 1/4" times. That being said, if you're gaining that much - I'd bank on it being driver improvement over power gains making the difference.


Thats $1700 with no tax, shipping or labor....

Sorry, I was thinking something different in my head and mis-counted. Yes, $1700. As for whp gains, you'd be looking at 30-40whp. Still not too shabby.

25 whp / 15 wtq for ~$3k of bolt on mods is not bad... but you really can't get anything beyond that unless you go for FI in which choices are very restricted thus far.

Again, not sure where you're getting your numbers. 30-40whp for $1700 assuming you're a nice guy and people are willing to loan you a cable and charger for the tune. Up to $1800 if you have to go to an approved shop to do it for you. Where you're getting your $3000 figure and 25whp I have no idea.

I've been playing with a few ideas of sizing a single large turbo, but I need to spend some more time dimensioning where to stick it. Let alone the tuning, plumbing, potential quenching, and unknown limits of the engines materials. The engine was built to be a high revving, efficient breather with lightweight internals and an aluminum block. It would be awesome if JHM could share some of their R&D on the engines limits because it feels like the risk might not be worth the payoff vs. turning smaller more robust engines.

Again, how much do you think you'll be spending on getting a single large turbo on this car??? Less than $10k after all said and done? I'd love to see that. May be possible but you'd really have to seriously plan ahead and really know what you're doing.

As for JHM sharing R&D work, you do understand business right? I'd love for all those patent owning pharmaceutical companies to release their R&D work so that low cost companies can easily reproduce the drugs quickly. Why would any company want to freely provide R&D work that cost them tons of money to their competitors and lose any edge they might have?

Some people seem to want the world but not have to pay a dime for it.

[Omerta]

Again, not sure where you're getting your numbers. 30-40whp for $1700 assuming you're a nice guy and people are willing to loan you a cable and charger for the tune. Up to $1800 if you have to go to an approved shop to do it for you. Where you're getting your $3000 figure and 25whp I have no idea.

Remove Product(s) Qty. Total

Exhaust - Cat-back - JHM B7 S4 Stainless Steel 2.5" w X-Pipe by FI Exhaust - Cat-back - JHM B7 S4 Stainless Steel 2.5" w X-Pipe by FI
- Downpipe Connection Dual 2.5"
- Resonators Yes
$1,295.00

Exhaust - Downpipes - JHM B6/B7 S4 "piggies" Exhaust - Downpipes - JHM B6/B7 S4 "piggies"
- Core Yes
- Transmission Type Manual
$669.00

JHM Tuning for B6-B7 S4 w 4.2L V8 (40v) JHM Tuning for B6-B7 S4 w 4.2L V8 (40v)
- Body Type Sedan
- Country USA - Canada
- Octane 91
- Transmission Type Manual
- Year 2005.5
- _Flashing Method Flash at JHM or JHM Dealer - Pay Labor at time of service
$550.00

Sub-Total: $2,514.00 - $300 deposit + shipping + handling + duties and taxes

= ~$3k

Numbers came from the most recent JHM dyno thread.

Again, how much do you think you'll be spending on getting a single large turbo on this car??? Less than $10k after all said and done? I'd love to see that.

That is the plan if I were to execute.

As for JHM sharing R&D work, you do understand business right? I'd love for all those patent owning pharmaceutical companies to release their R&D work so that low cost companies can easily reproduce the drugs quickly. Why would any company want to freely provide R&D work that cost them tons of money to their competitors and lose any edge they might have?

Some people seem to want the world but not have to pay a dime for it.

You really need to work on your comprehension of phrasing.

[Axel-]

You really need to work on your comprehension of phrasing.

And you need to learn how to read better. I gave you a sub-2k option for a 30-40whp gain but you seem to be ignoring it. There are other choices than the FI exhaust system.

[Slow4]

Who said anything about NOT tuning? Why are built internals necessary for 450-500 chp with a smaller blower but not with JHM's blower?

Because JHMs blower is scaled down to benefit our 4.2s whereas others are maxed out, endangering the internals?

[Axel-]

Because JHMs blower is scaled down to benefit our 4.2s whereas others are maxed out, endangering the internals?

Case and point, the original VF/PES supercharger kit (as sold) got crap results (small SC) and would blow engines from poor tuning/too much heat. That's how.

[Axel-]

Right, so you spent $1220 + at least $500 for the tune, that's $1720 bare minimum. You said it can be done for $1200 - that was the issue I took with you. 5 + 5 + 7 != 12.

My bad, I meant to write 1700, not 1200. Although you could technically shave off $500 for DIY piggies and be in the 25whp gain range (or, if you don't want to get your hands dirty, shave $180 off for JHM piggies.)

[EUROSWAGR]

Axel, they just want to argue. Troy can't drive..we've already seen that, and so does this other guy.

.5 sec in the 1/4 is based off of some of the fastest stock times vs piggie/CB/ tune times
It wasn't about driver improvement..hell look how many stock guys can't break 13s

I went 13.7 stock...13.14 millteks catless/FI/JHM tune/intake spacers

WHP gain especially PEAK is honestly pointless to care about.

You also can't add in installation costs. If someone isn't mechnically inclined that isn't part of the cost to modify a car and then we bring shipping and tax ino it...lol whatever...I know I like to argue but you guys are looking pathetic trying to be right.

[Axel-]

Axel, they just want to argue. Troy can't drive..we've already seen that, and so does this other guy.
and then we bring shipping and tax ino it...lol whatever...I know I like to argue but you guys are looking pathetic trying to be right.

Yeah, bringing taxes into it is getting pretty crazy. And don't you avoid paying taxes when buying from out of state of where the product is shipped from? So now we're taking into account where each person happens to live? lmao.

[troyguitar]

Case and point, the original VF/PES supercharger kit (as sold) got crap results (small SC) and would blow engines from poor tuning/too much heat. That's how.

I was under the impression that the general consensus was those failures were due to poor tuning, is that not actually the case?

[Guitarmageddon]

Ill paypal a dollar to someone that can show me any thread with "JHM" in the title, that lasts over a page, that DOESNT end in hostility involving the usual suspects....

good luck

[troyguitar]

Troy can't drive..we've already seen that

Is that a challenge? What is it with you and Slow saying nobody can drive?

Care to place a wager on that statement?

[Guitarmageddon]

Is that a challenge? What is it with you and Slow saying nobody can drive?

Care to place a wager on that statement?

I smell a race for pinks...

[Omerta]

And you need to learn how to read better. I gave you a sub-2k option for a 30-40whp gain but you seem to be ignoring it. There are other choices than the FI exhaust system.

There are lots of combinations available.. sure, if you brought it all used locally it would almost be $1200. The 30-40 whp is ambitious but, my original statement was referring to the cost of big gains (+100whp) which is what the topic of this derailed thread is originally about.

[Axel-]

I was under the impression that the general consensus was those failures were due to poor tuning, is that not actually the case?

It is, but you have to look at what the poor tuning caused when paired with poor hardware choice. It wasn't the poor tuning on its own. The culprits was heat and the poor tuning exacerbated it.
VWRCER managed to overcome these problems by making a lot of changes to the original kit that was sold. I don't know all the details though. You'd have to ask him of course. I do believe he added headers which helps lower heat among many other things.

[Axel-]

There are lots of combinations available.. sure, if you brought it all used locally it would almost be $1200. The 30-40 whp is ambitious but, my original statement was referring to the cost of big gains (+100whp) which is what the topic of this derailed thread is originally about.

Hey man, I was only commenting on your own earlier comment of:

Maximizing HP/$ is the end goal, but it appears the BHF isn't cheap to even make small gains.

You're the one that brought up small gains and it not being cheap. I pointed out you can get 30-40whp (NOT an ambitious number) for NEW parts for less than $2k. If you don't want to listen to the facts, then I can't do much more.

I myself got a 20whp gain from 2.25" DPs (my first DP's were Billy Boats and I was told they were 2.5" but they weren't) and 2.5" X-Pipe and NO tune. Increase the DP diameter to 2.5" and throw in a JHM tune and 35whp is easy.

[Slow4]

I was under the impression that the general consensus was those failures were due to poor tuning, is that not actually the case?

Poor tuning is subjective if the blower maxes out power regardless.

A tune is designed to work with the ECU in regulating the power the engine puts out; if the tune is designed to tell the ECU "give everything it has" then you're gonna have failures.

Come on Mr. Engineer, this is common sense.

[Omerta]

Hey man, I was only commenting on your own earlier comment of:



You're the one that brought up small gains and it not being cheap. I pointed out you can get 30-40whp (NOT an ambitious number) for NEW parts for less than $2k. If you don't want to listen to the facts, then I can't do much more.

I myself got a 20whp gain from 2.25" DPs (my first DP's were Billy Boats and I was told they were 2.5" but they weren't) and 2.5" X-Pipe and NO tune. Increase the DP diameter to 2.5" and throw in a JHM tune and 35whp is easy.

I hear 'facts' but I haven't come across where 2.5" DP's a CB Exhaust and a tune can be bought for under $2k new.

Irregardless, what kind of legs are you hoping to get out of your Stage 1 SC? or are you topped out at 421 whp?

[Axel-]

I hear 'facts' but I haven't come across where 2.5" DP's a CB Exhaust and a tune can be bought for under $2k new.

Uhhh, so what am I? Chopped liver? I bought all those parts for less than $2k. Do you have to buy them yourself to believe it? Confused...

Irregardless, what kind of legs are you hoping to get out of your Stage 1 SC? or are you topped out at 421 whp?

I'm topped out right now because I don't have headers. I might go stage 2 one day but certainly not this year. Aiming for 12.2 on my current setup in the fall. I'll post my results whatever they end up being.

[BWT]

I hear 'facts' but I haven't come across where 2.5" DP's a CB Exhaust and a tune can be bought for under $2k new.

Irregardless, what kind of legs are you hoping to get out of your Stage 1 SC? or are you topped out at 421 whp?

The catback is the expensive part. But, you can get a Magnaflow 2.5" catback for $700. Downpipes you have two cheap options: trexturk for $500 or milltek catless for $650. JHM tune is $550. Any combination of these is under $2k.

Also, "irregardless" is not a word. "Regardless" already implies that you have no regard. Adding "ir" makes it redundant.

[BWT]

Ill paypal a dollar to someone that can show me any thread with "JHM" in the title, that lasts over a page, that DOESNT end in hostility involving the usual suspects....

good luck

I only know this one because it's my thread. http://www.audizine.com/forum/showth...m+dyno+results

I'll take that dollar now :)

[iHaveBoost?]

...


So going with a 1.8 in the future, OP?

[Omerta]

Uhhh, so what am I? Chopped liver? I bought all those parts for less than $2k. Do you have to buy them yourself to believe it? Confused...

Trekturk appears to be MIA, so yes it would be nice to come across those prices so I could buy it yes.

I'm topped out right now because I don't have headers. I might go stage 2 one day but certainly not this year. Aiming for 12.2 on my current setup in the fall. I'll post my results whatever they end up being.

Headers are the limiting factor? What about the fuel system? When will the variable intake pendulums cut into the efficiency of the FI? What are you using for pre-det management?

[Guitarmageddon]

I only know this one because it's my thread. http://www.audizine.com/forum/showth...m+dyno+results

I'll take that dollar now :)

Nope, theyre in there too

[Axel-]

Trekturk appears to be MIA, so yes it would be nice to come across those prices so I could buy it yes.



Headers are the limiting factor? What about the fuel system? When will the variable intake pendulums cut into the efficiency of the FI? What are you using for pre-det management?

Headers adds considerable torque and also keeps things cooler so JHM is able to add another 20whp or so when headers are installed.
The fuel system as is is fine (the JHM kit comes with upgraded injectors but no need for an upgraded pump).
As for your other two questions, no clue. I'm assuming management is done by the ECU but that's going beyond my technical knowledge. I'm sure someone smarter than me can answer those questions.

Anyway, I'm off camping for the weekend and shutting down my comp. Have a great weekend everyone!

[ProgMetalHead]

I got my exhaust used, but I think it was around:
FI Catback with Resonators - $950
FI DPs with Cats - $950 (cannot remember if this is exact or not, but give or take $100)
JHM Tune - $580
Install - $300

Total for me was $2680-$2880, and I assume I gained around 35whp.

[BWT]

Nope, theyre in there too

Didn't end in hostility though. Pay up sucka

[EUROSWAGR]

Trekturk appears to be MIA, so yes it would be nice to come across those prices so I could buy it yes.

I paid $640 for my catless miltek DPs..shipped...basically that is what trexturk made, so we are still under $2k


$670 shipped... http://www.eurosportdesign.com/p-160...FU6Z4Aod_TsABw

$714.01...performacepeddler.com their best offered price!

JHM tune....won't put you over $2k, throw some IM spacers in your cart too!

These are all current prices you could order them today.

[Omerta]

I paid $640 for my catless miltek DPs..shipped...basically that is what trexturk made, so we are still under $2k


$670 shipped... http://www.eurosportdesign.com/p-160...FU6Z4Aod_TsABw

$714.01...performacepeddler.com their best offered price!

JHM tune....won't put you over $2k, throw some IM spacers in your cart too!

These are all current prices you could order them today.

http://performancepeddler.com/catalo...m-p-31168.html
Lowball them with the "name your offer" price? Not bad

[BWT]

$714.01...performacepeddler.com their best offered price!

I just checked and got a price of $680 shipped using code "audipipes". That's seriously cheap!

[EUROSWAGR]

http://performancepeddler.com/catalo...m-p-31168.html
Lowball them with the "name your offer" price? Not bad

I'm not just here to argue with you man, I truly like helping people out. But that may also consist of being a dick when people make false claims or talk out of their ass.

The magnaflow is an amazing option for that price. I personally had the FI fullback, but power wise they are pretty equal...and they both have their own unique sexy tone.

I just checked and got a price of $680 shipped using code "audipipes". That's seriously cheap!

Hell, that's awesome, I forgot to even try

So for (680+680+550-650) $1910-2010 and a DIY saturday...someone can add a pretty substantial amount of power...or just gut their own piggies and get the DPs later.

[ProgMetalHead]

I don't know how the other systems sound, but the FI is the best sound (cars or not) I've ever heard.
The sound of the RPMs slowly dropping as you decelerate when you leave it in gear is pure heaven.

What would you call that? Is there a name for it?
As soon as you let off the throttle, the car starts to make this beautiful, low-pitched sound.

[Slow4]

What would you call that? Is there a name for it?
As soon as you let off the throttle, the car starts to make this beautiful, low-pitched sound.

Orgasmic harmony?

[ProgMetalHead]

Orgasmic harmony?

That's it! It was on the tip of my tongue.