Long time coming (GTRS project)

**nynoah** · 10-24-2013 07:51 AM

Also when the tensioners "go".... they explode. That one did not "go". Because the piston is still in it. When they "go" the piston shoots out of the body. That picture looks exactly like what happens when the tensioner pulley is not adjusted correctly and the tensioner expanded to as far as it would go, but it was not far enough... the belt jumps. On the older systems pre 2001.5. There is no adjusting bracket. The tensioner pulley is larger too. Which in that system you pull the pin and walk away. It has no adjustment. But those systems are not as reliable because some belts are more tight or loose than others even when new. Audi then changed the system in 2001.5 to a pully that was smaller in diameter but adjustable for initial tension. The smaller diameter made fine tuning possible but it also made it so if you did not fine tune it.... 1000 miles later... boom. If this system is properly set it is the best setup for a long term street driven audi that they have made.

**nynoah** · 10-24-2013 07:57 AM

Originally Posted by Believer

Really informative, thanks for that. Is it ever too late to go back and check the 6mm gap? Any pictures that could help show exactly where the gap should be measured?

Tool used to adjust the roller assembly to proper tension.
http://www.ecstuning.com/Audi-B5_A4-...ool/ES1306820/

If you have the older engine that is not a 2001.5 you use this stud adapt the newer roller system
http://www.ecstuning.com/Audi-B5_A4-...ming/ES279996/

I am really sorry this happened to you. You can fix this. I know I myself when I was young made a mistake that taught me an invaluable lesson. I used the bolt on the end of the cams of my VR6 to set the cams to timing. Well I in inadvertently loosened it and few hundred miles later... boom. Plus this is all speculation on my part. You could have done it all right. I just hope someone learns something from what I wrote.

**GOODBYNAAIR** · 10-24-2013 08:30 AM

Originally Posted by nynoah

I don't want to be a jerk about this but people are reading this and are going to blame the tensioner system. Right now my assumption is it was NOT the tensioners fault and more the installation was done wrong. Heres why "tensioner 10k, belt 600 miles". That tells me that 1 you used a used part and mixed new with old. 2 it also gives me indication that you put it together wrong because the time frame for failure due to install error is right on par. Many people don't know how to set the tensioner correct. They think all you do is pull the pin and it adjusts itself. NO that will set up the tensioner to time bomb explode and or cause the belt to fail. The proper method of tensioning it will leave on a 6mm gap (use an allen key to measure) between the roller lever and the body of the tensioner. If it is more or less then it does not leave enough room for the tensioner to expand and contract the belt. Which the belt will expand and contract with both age and revs of the motor. If you just pulled the pin without checking and rechecking that gap it will almost 100% fail. This is why I say that doing a timing belt is an art in and of itself. The way to adjust that 6mm gap is to use the offset spherical bearing on the roller to adjust the gap.

That static tensioner system from IE is a timebomb in itself on a street engine. The stock tensioner from Audi as long as you have the 2001.5 system which you can put that on older engines is the best system in my opinion. The IE one does not flex in and out like the hydrolic unit does. So use it on a long term use street car with high HP and you will chew up timing belts and strip them. Seen it on this forum already.

The tensioner and tbelt was not installed by me. its a long story done by a third party. I did think about a new tensioner when I put the belt in. I talked to the shop that did the tbelt and they said the tensioner should be "good"? I called the shop and they are looking in to the warrnty on the parts and work they did. I will see what they say and move on from there.

thanks for the feedback guys

**nynoah** · 10-24-2013 08:45 AM

Originally Posted by GOODBYNAAIR

The tensioner and tbelt was not installed by me. its a long story done by a third party. I did think about a new tensioner when I put the belt in. I talked to the shop that did the tbelt and they said the tensioner should be "good"? I called the shop and they are looking in to the warrnty on the parts and work they did. I will see what they say and move on from there.

thanks for the feedback guys

If you are dealing with a shop that did the work... then tell them what I wrote. Print it out and show them. I think they just pulled the pin without rechecking the gap area and left the belt tension too loose.

**GOODBYNAAIR** · 10-24-2013 04:30 PM

Originally Posted by demonmk2

Man, sorry to hear about this.
Did you not have a timing belt cover on?

Yes I had the cover on I took if off before I took the pics. the belt was off and had pushed the cover away from the motor.

**mysman** · 10-25-2013 11:52 AM

Originally Posted by nynoah

Also when the tensioners "go".... they explode. That one did not "go". Because the piston is still in it. When they "go" the piston shoots out of the body. That picture looks exactly like what happens when the tensioner pulley is not adjusted correctly and the tensioner expanded to as far as it would go, but it was not far enough... the belt jumps. On the older systems pre 2001.5. There is no adjusting bracket. The tensioner pulley is larger too. Which in that system you pull the pin and walk away. It has no adjustment. But those systems are not as reliable because some belts are more tight or loose than others even when new. Audi then changed the system in 2001.5 to a pully that was smaller in diameter but adjustable for initial tension. The smaller diameter made fine tuning possible but it also made it so if you did not fine tune it.... 1000 miles later... boom. If this system is properly set it is the best setup for a long term street driven audi that they have made.

I didn't know this; the AWM retrofit for AEB/ATW sounds like a good option. And the case for converting to strictly manual adjustment, as in:

http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthrea...kit-from-a-16v

is not really best, as I believe the timing belts will last longer with constant, dampened tension, rather than setting rigid fixed geometry. Also I'm wondering how many people have actually done the AEB/ATW to AWM conversion, as I have read strange occurrences of belt offset or even failures, when using non-oem (presumably mismatched) belts, etc.

**nynoah** · 10-25-2013 12:06 PM

Originally Posted by mysman

I didn't know this; the AWM retrofit for AEB/ATW sounds like a good option. And the case for converting to strictly manual adjustment, as in:

http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthrea...kit-from-a-16v

is not really best, as I believe the timing belts will last longer with constant, dampened tension, rather than setting rigid fixed geometry. Also I'm wondering how many people have actually done the AEB/ATW to AWM conversion, as I have read strange occurrences of belt offset or even failures, when using non-oem (presumably mismatched) belts, etc.

I honestly don't know. I do know that the pulley on the camshaft is different between the two (offset). I have a spare 06a one if someone wants to start trying. The place I would start is just getting an older 2001.5 roller and hydrolic tensioner that is used and garbage and just see what it takes to make that work. It might be just something as simple as a washer to offset.

You still need that stud I posted the link to because the roller uses a smaller diameter hole.

**GOODBYNAAIR** · 11-09-2013 05:37 AM

Ok so the finale news of all this is. My tensioner pulley froze up and broke off them the belt fell off and bent 6 valves. This being said I talked to the shop that did my tbelt last and we worked out a deal for them to do all the work but the tbelt ect on them and I went with supertech valves all new. Now this still cost me some money but I feel like I made the most out of the worst. I could have done it other ways junk yard head or do it myself ect. But work has be crazy I don't really have a good place to work on a motor for a long time and with cold weather moving in and all. So all said and done I will have the car back running now with semi built head.

Again thanks for the input/help guys -Mark

**ZimbutheMonkey** · 11-10-2013 11:15 AM

No big issue w having a semi-built head, there's no point to revving past 7000 with a GTRS elim, in fact, the stock 6800 rev limit is probably gonna be plenty. You should have full boost around 3500 RPM so that gives you a good 3000 RPM powerband.

**GOODBYNAAIR** · 11-11-2013 12:12 PM

Yeah I knew that the GTRS is not going to go up there anyway it was just that if I going bigger later Its one less step I have to take at that point.

**GOODBYNAAIR** · 12-14-2013 10:30 AM

Ok back up and running Fresh head Fresh tbelt ect all that

put some miles on the car today and did some logging for Dave. I found this cool part of his inner-face . ''dyno'' I dont know how accurate it is but its exciting to me.

**GOODBYNAAIR** · 02-03-2014 05:04 PM

Just a few add ons,have not really been working on the car much with the cool weather and all. I did finally get my winter setup on. I was not expecting my tires not to fit 225/50/17 on the B6 sport wheels that have a nice high 45 off set. (they rubbed) So I picked up some 13mm spacer and it all worked out.I think the car could use a little more low but its better in the snow as a 4x4. Over all I like the look for some rattle can CL wheels and tires, and you cant beat the price.

This is a side note but thought it was cool, I was flying into Chicago last week and you know its cold when one of the Great lakes looks like this!

**nynoah** · 02-03-2014 05:07 PM

Glad to hear the car is back up and running. What became of the T belt issue?

**GOODBYNAAIR** · 02-03-2014 05:20 PM

It made me sick and should have done it right the first time. the tbelt tensioner pulley froze up and broke lose, thats it in a nut shell then the Tbelt fell off and head went to hell. Soo.. said and done took the head to a machine shop had it all cleaned up super tech valves and all the rest put in fresh. The shop that did the Tbelt provided new parts to replaced the ones that failed and put it all back together for me. still cost a little bit of money for the upgraded valves but now im good to go with bigger turbo later If I want.

**nynoah** · 02-03-2014 05:56 PM

Yep nothing better than a built head

**GOODBYNAAIR** · 03-06-2014 07:08 PM

As of right now I have snow tires on the car and im selling my other set of wheels. I want to get summer wheels and tires 17"x8or 18" x8 I like the idea of a 235 or 245 tire. looking for a light weight wheel, this is hard to find for a lower price.

OZ

VRM

Enkei

some I like, don't like all the prices.. eh This is wheels and tires I guess.

Tires. I know there are more, but just for example of some of what im looking for.

BFGoodrich

Continental

Feel free to chime In

Thanks

**GOODBYNAAIR** · 03-18-2014 05:33 PM

Thanks people??

JK

Got the wheels they are going on in the next few weeks when I lower the car/ salt and snow go away!

**Cgoon009** · 03-18-2014 05:34 PM

I cant wait to see what this looks like on your car. I like the color combo

**demonmk2** · 03-18-2014 05:58 PM

Yes, I'm very curious too

**GOODBYNAAIR** · 03-18-2014 07:02 PM

Thanks guys, Trust me I cant wait to get them on

Its killing me looking at them sit!

**disturbed_audi** · 03-19-2014 06:05 AM

Originally Posted by GOODBYNAAIR

Thanks guys, Trust me I cant wait to get them on

Its killing me looking at them sit!

I couldnt do it

**Cgoon009** · 03-19-2014 06:08 AM

Originally Posted by GOODBYNAAIR

Thanks guys, Trust me I cant wait to get them on

Its killing me looking at them sit!

55 tmrw.... Just sayin

**GOODBYNAAIR** · 03-20-2014 01:53 PM

Yes today would be great for new wheels, I even got off a little early from work! Grandma is in town and wants to have dinner with me and her soon to be Grand darter in law, Dont get me wrong this is great and all.. But I need that ''HELLA FLUSH'' stance. In other words no wheels yet

**ray4624** · 03-20-2014 02:00 PM

it literally takes 10 minutes to swap wheels. No excuses!

**Cgoon009** · 03-20-2014 02:02 PM

hahaha

**GOODBYNAAIR** · 03-20-2014 02:12 PM

10 minuets I don't have! I need to lower the coils I am 4x4 and I dont have a spanner wrench ! If I had the wrench it would have been done last weekend snow or not.

edit you aked for it I only did one to be sure they fit

dirty car still jacked up not the best first pic...

Thats all I got

**disturbed_audi** · 03-20-2014 06:22 PM

Goto hom depot lowes in the plumbing section for a spanner wrench

**GOODBYNAAIR** · 03-20-2014 07:06 PM

Originally Posted by disturbed_audi

Goto hom depot lowes in the plumbing section for a spanner wrench

But really if so I will get one tomorrow

**disturbed_audi** · 03-20-2014 10:51 PM

No i do construction and they sell wrenches like that for pipes.

Edit: a quick search and this is the first one that was on the list if I would have looked longer could have found a better one but this one will definitely work.. this tool works up to 3 inch nuts.

**GOODBYNAAIR** · 03-22-2014 01:37 PM

I have to say im happy with the Wheels! 13mm spacers in the back 5mm in the front.

more adjustments will be made on the ride height, Here you Go

I am happy with the power the car is making too. I did not know the guy in the STI till today. we went from 35 to 110 and I pulled 1/2 a car till 85 and by 110 I was at his back bumper.

2011 STI stg 2 1000cc injectors full exhaust and intake he said he made 315whp..

**BrucexL33** · 03-22-2014 01:52 PM

Car looks super nice! What brake set up are those?

**GOODBYNAAIR** · 03-22-2014 02:05 PM

Thanks, 2 piece ecs rotors 312mm and porsche boxster calipers with hawk HSP pads

**BrucexL33** · 03-22-2014 02:12 PM

Awesome! If I may ask where did you get them?

**GOODBYNAAIR** · 03-22-2014 02:14 PM

From a guy on vortex about a year ago he got them from ECS tuning. they had 5k on them when I got them he was parting out his car.

**demonmk2** · 03-22-2014 02:21 PM

wheels look good on the car..

**BrucexL33** · 03-22-2014 02:23 PM

Do you feel a difference switching from the stock calipers to the boxster in terms of stopping power, feel?

**GOODBYNAAIR** · 03-22-2014 02:30 PM

Yes much stronger. right now I have HSP on the back too stock a4. I have S4 rears sitting on the shelf, pads, calipers and rotors ready to go on just need time to do it.