GT2560r setup?

[zaboomafoo1212]

So I've been trying to find this answer for a while. Either I am failing to use the correct search terms, or there just isn't a solid answer for this.

I have some Nissan friends that are saying that I can get myself a GT2560r for dirt cheap because they come stock on some of the Nissan motors and people just rip the off and sell them the second they get them. But I'm trying to figure out if it would be possible to use one in my car. I know they make one specifically for our car like the other GT series turbos, but the one's from the Nissan's are different in some way that I can't really figure out. I know this because they are of a different part number. Could you guys help me out? Here is an example of what I've been seeing:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/181186664115...84.m1438.l2649

[coolgraymemo]

You would need a T25 manifold.

[zaboomafoo1212]

That's all? Besides the injectors and tune of course. If so, I'm trying to decide if it would be worth going this route instead of a GTRS elim for a little while. I want some more oomph, but don't want to dump the 2K right now if I can do this route far cheaper.

[redline380]

http://www.atpturbo.com/mm5/merchant...egory_Code=GRT

[zaboomafoo1212]

I saw that redline, but that doesn't match the one out of the Nissans as far as part number goes which is why I posted this question. I wish they mentioned more detailed specs.
Edit:
Here is a detaild list on the Nissan turbo:
http://www.frsport.com/Nissan-Factor...8R_p_1265.html

Based on that, they have the same compressor and turbine. I was pretty sure of that in the first place, but I was more concerned for fitment on my car.

[RoadRage]

I think all you need is a T25 exhaust manifold, like one of these and you'll be good.

But don't hold me to that.

[zandrew]

The GT2560R is a decent turbo but it only came on the S15 SR20DET (and the first Mazdaspeed protege). It uses ball bearings and has 46.5mm inducer and 60mm exducer on the compressor. It uses the T25 turbine as well that is common to the GT2554 and the T28 turbos from S14's and S13's. On the SR20DET I have seen reports of about 300-320 rwhp which should equate to atleast 260AWHP which is not bad. You will need a tune with injectors, manifold, inlet, downpipe, and oil lines plus a better intercooler and exhaust to get the most out of it. If its a S14 turbo it has a smaller compressor and really is not worthwhile upgrade as they also are not full BB. Some were journal bearing and some had a single ball bearing on the compressor side.

For that price you can get just as good performance from a Franken turbo that will drop in and use more common parts plus comes with a warranty. The hp potential is very comparable between the 2.

[Avant Nate]

I'm pretty sure the old apr stage 3 setup for are cars ran the gt2560r and the 3+ used the gt28rs. You may be able to find that time used. I think the setup is pretty comparable to the frankenturbo.

[zandrew]

Avant nate is right about the APR stage 3 and 3+. If you are wondering what the significant difference between the 2 is The GT2860RS is 47.2mm inducer and 60mm exducer. The turbine is slighty larger and uses a more modern design that is higher flowing.

With he GT2560R setup you will have a end result in the 260-280 max AWHP but use parts that are more expensive. With a FT setup you will be very similar to max hp with excellent spool and you can use parts that accomadate a stock fitting motor. Having had went through a GT2871R build (which uses the same parts as GT2560R build) if I was aiming for 250AWHP I would grab the FT and be done. Other advantages to the FT is you can swap it in and then add parts like a dp and exhaust and even an intercooler as long as you run it reasonably. With the GT2560R you will absolutely need a custom DP at the least with the proper turbo manifold, proper tune, and proper down pipe.

I believe the common census is if you are looking for 250AWHP the FT is the go to pick. The only way I could justify going with the GT2560R is if you found it for dirt cheap AND you planned on upgrading later on to a setup that would drop in and use the parts you already installed.

[M-Hood]

Avant nate is right about the APR stage 3 and 3+. If you are wondering what the significant difference between the 2 is The GT2860RS is 47.2mm inducer and 60mm exducer. The turbine is slighty larger and uses a more modern design that is higher flowing.

With he GT2560R setup you will have a end result in the 260-280 max AWHP but use parts that are more expensive. With a FT setup you will be very similar to max hp with excellent spool and you can use parts that accomadate a stock fitting motor. Having had went through a GT2871R build (which uses the same parts as GT2560R build) if I was aiming for 250AWHP I would grab the FT and be done. Other advantages to the FT is you can swap it in and then add parts like a dp and exhaust and even an intercooler as long as you run it reasonably. With the GT2560R you will absolutely need a custom DP at the least with the proper turbo manifold, proper tune, and proper down pipe.

I believe the common census is if you are looking for 250AWHP the FT is the go to pick. The only way I could justify going with the GT2560R is if you found it for dirt cheap AND you planned on upgrading later on to a setup that would drop in and use the parts you already installed.

Has anyone made 250awhp on pump gas with the FT?

[zandrew]

There is 2 seperate dynos listed on Franken website one with 91 octane and the other with 93 octane both which is pump. Both made right at 262 whp. Even if these are fwhp dynos they are still very close to 250AWHP when you convert. 15% for FWD loss and 21% for AWHP loss. The dynos do not specify AWHP or FWHP.

Are you going to disagree with this as well, LOL.

[M-Hood]

There is 2 seperate dynos listed on Franken website one with 91 octane and the other with 93 octane both which is pump. Both made right at 262 whp. Even if these are fwhp dynos they are still very close to 250AWHP when you convert. 15% for FWD loss and 21% for AWHP loss. The dynos do not specify AWHP or FWHP.

Are you going to disagree with this as well, LOL.

Every dyno I have seen of a Quattro is just under 240awhp, plus 262fwhp is only 240awhp using 15% and 22% which is pretty much what everyone uses. Last time I checked 240awhp wasn't 250awhp. lol

[coolgraymemo]

Every dyno I have seen of a Quattro is just under 240awhp, plus 262fwhp is only 240awhp using 15% and 22% which is pretty much what everyone uses. Last time I checked 240awhp wasn't 250awhp. lol

I would say this F21 is maxed out.



Thread.

[zandrew]

Every dyno I have seen of a Quattro is just under 240awhp, plus 262fwhp is only 240awhp using 15% and 22% which is pretty much what everyone uses. Last time I checked 240awhp wasn't 250awhp. lol

Dude are you on the rag or what is your issue, lol. You nit pick the sillyest shit I have ever seen. No where did I guarentee he would make 250AWHP with the FT though it seriously looks like its capable. If a person is aiming for 250AWHP I would buy the FT and call it a day. The obvious value of the FT is the ease of install compared to return. If you are going to compare other turbos that make 250AWHP the FT is the cheapest and best bang for the buck unless you plan on something bigger later. Also I never said anything about pump.

When I have converted FWHP to AWHP I use 15% and 20% usually. On the first GEN MR2 we used 12%. The Audi A4 is the only forum I have ever seen use higher drivetrain loss. At 20% its very close to 250AWHP but the fact is the dynos do not specify if they are AWHP or FWHP. I was "assuming" FWHP since they are higher then most which typically is between 230AWHP-240AWHP. Evo owners use 17% drivetrain.

You seriously just made a post nit picking 1% difference in drivetrain loss, LOL.

Here is the dynos I referenced.

[M-Hood]

Dude are you on the rag or what is your issue, lol. You nit pick the sillyest shit I have ever seen. No where did I guarentee he would make 250AWHP with the FT though it seriously looks like its capable. If a person is aiming for 250AWHP I would buy the FT and call it a day. The obvious value of the FT is the ease of install compared to return. If you are going to compare other turbos that make 250AWHP the FT is the cheapest and best bang for the buck unless you plan on something bigger later. Also I never said anything about pump.

When I have converted FWHP to AWHP I use 15% and 20% usually. On the first GEN MR2 we used 12%. The Audi A4 is the only forum I have ever seen use higher drivetrain loss. At 20% its very close to 250AWHP but the fact is the dynos do not specify if they are AWHP or FWHP. I was "assuming" FWHP since they are higher then most which typically is between 230AWHP-240AWHP. Evo owners use 17% drivetrain.

You seriously just made a post nit picking 1% difference in drivetrain loss, LOL.

Here is the dynos I referenced.

I am on the rag? LOL maybe you should actually get first hand experience on the matter before giving your "BS" answers on a forum. Your answers are like a virgin telling everyone how to have sex.


I wasn't making a big deal about 1%, was just saying that we have been using 22% for over 10 years seeing that is what we found the driveline to lose. But 1% still wasn't going to help your cause seeing it still was going to fall short of 250 smart ass. Every dyno is going to be different and even brand to brand the % is going to be different. There are some that will read 15% with a A4 1.8t and that same car might end up on a dyno that reads 35% loss. I have even seen dyno sheets show a car making way more power then a turbo is even capable of making for the amount of boost the person says it was running at and then watch people ask him if it was a "Florida" dyno. lol

The dyno is just a tuning tool, but the fact is that I have yet to see a A4 1.8t QUATTRO put down more then 230whp on any type of dyno and I have been around since Doug started offering the turbos. Maybe people should learn to add info to their dyno saying if it is a FWD or Quattro, it isn't exactly that hard to do.


If someone has a goal of 250awhp telling them to go with a FT isn't exactly the best thing to suggest seeing they will most likely not be looking to max out the turbo which means they will most likely not come anywhere near 250awhp like they want. I don't know how much common sense someone would need to figure that out. Hell I know people running GTRS setups that ended up making under 250awhp and as we all know that turbo can make more then that without being maxed out.


I know exactly what dyno sheets you were talking, it isn't like your the only person that knows how to use a Search Engine. If you didn't notice the 2nd graph says "GTI" right on it, so common sense should kick in and figure out it is FWD. lol

[Believer]

This is the most i've seen on a Dyno sheet for the FT, granted this is the F4H-L so the F21 MAY be able to squeeze a bit more.

http://www.audizine.com/forum/showth...udi-A4-Quattro

[zaboomafoo1212]

Thanks for the really good responses guys! If I went with an FT would I be able to stick with Revo? They're the only local place and I like that I can just upgrade the tune and pay the difference in price instead of the full price. I'm going to look at FT prices now.

I plan to do this now and then eventually go GTRS or 2871r elim with rods. I just want something that will hold me over until I can turn this into a full build car.

Also, is there a way to get just the turbo? Or do you have to get the entire kit?

[zandrew]

Contact FT. Also contact Revo and let them know what you have but fuel injector upgrade will be in the works.

Me personally I would jump the GT2860RS and go straight 2871. There is hardly (if any) difference in price. There is some spool difference but a very livable ride in daily terms. It also gives you more room if you drop in rods.

[zaboomafoo1212]

Well I was thinking that I would just do the 2871 elim kit since it was barely anything more (new) and I would just get a boost controller so I could run it low until I got rods.

I really am digging the idea of a FT if they actually put decent numbers down. I want like 250 ish awhp if I'm going to spend that much money. That way I will be going up like 100 when I do the next upgrade.

[Seerlah]

You can run the GTRS Revo 550cc tune on the FT, since you have an AWM. Tried and proven by Eurocode Tuning (I think this was the company that tested it out).

[zaboomafoo1212]

I was reading some threads and saw a guy from Eurocode post that it ran fantastically. What does the stage 3 tune require?

[Seerlah]

Injectors, tune, fpr (if not stock), you can run MAFless, exhaust, and intercooler.

[zaboomafoo1212]

I think the revo uses the MAF. I have a somewhat larger exhaust already. I also believe that tune uses a 3fpr as well, but am not 100% certain

[mrbacardi35]

I am currently running APR manifold with GT2871R and Revo 550cc OTS tune.

[zaboomafoo1212]

I am really thinking about the FT-F21 now guys. I'm trying to figure out what kind of numbers it puts down. I'm really hoping to get like 250-260 at the crank if I am going to upgrade the turbo.

[Seerlah]

If that is all you want then the FT will suit the bill perfectly.

[zandrew]

The FT will blast out 250 crank hp. It actually "should" make atleast 300chp to be honest. The driving dynamic between the GT2871 and FT is completely different. The FT gives that instant grunt feeling which is perfect for a daily. The 2871 gives you that "Oh Shit" feeling once it comes on and makes for a drivable daily but just not as spirited as the FT is.

[zaboomafoo1212]

That's all I'm looking for at the moment. When I get a different car in a couple years for a daily I will be building this up a little bit and making it have around 350-400AWHP. But until then, this will be great. Would it be a bad idea to run this without a front mount? Or should I just buy one at the same time? If that's the case, could you verify this parts list?

-F21
-Stage 3 Revo Tune
-Injectors
-FPR
-Front Mount

I already have a diverter valve and exhaust.

Also, This wouldn't be creating enough torque to require rods right?

[Seerlah]

With the fast hit of the torque, your rods def won't like it. But a Revo tune should be safe on your block. As for the intercooler, a def must. This turbo runs incredibly hot due to it's size to hp output. Running high IATs on a completely stock motor is not a good idea.

[zaboomafoo1212]

That's what I figured. I'll just buy that front mount like I mentioned to you a little while ago. I just emailed them asking how much for just the turbo so I guess we shall see!

[Seerlah]

You can also email Revo to see if they have a tune for the FT. Seems they have one for the B6.

[zaboomafoo1212]

Well, I saw that eurocode was using the stage 3 file for a B5 they had and they said it works great. Is Revo any good at emailing back? I've never bothered, since I just usually contact the shops.

[Seerlah]

Call or email them and find out. I find calling is way better than emailing.

[zaboomafoo1212]

I'll try that tomorrow. Is there a phone number for Frankenturbo? The contact button just leads to an email so I just assumed there wasn't one.

[Seerlah]

Not to be that guy, but search. It's the internet.

[zaboomafoo1212]

Haha okay. I just figured if they didn't have it on the website there was a reason for it.

[Seerlah]

If you are the original purchaser of your current file, they may just charge an upgrade fee.

[zaboomafoo1212]

Yeah I know they will, I already contacted the shop and they said they would do that.

[spindoctor]

I am currently running APR manifold with GT2871R and Revo 550cc OTS tune.

Ditched the 20G did you? :)

[mrbacardi35]

Ditched the 20G did you? :)

I actually sold my B6. All I have now is my B5 Avant with APR mani/GT2871R turbo running Revo software and recently picked up another B5, but an S4 : ).