What Went Wrong With Your B6 Today?..

[Gunnarrrrr]

Here's a copy of a spreadsheet I made for two jobs I just did, on my b6 and another. It might help you out. I did the entire(minus axle refresh and subframe) front chassis for about $1300 using almost exclusively OEM parts.

Didn't include the S4 upper control arm bushings, as those lemforder arms ended up coming with S4 bushings. But I know you're going to want your poly ones anyway.

[ye1low]

Thank you for that spreadsheet! That will certainly help with part numbers.
I'm bagging the car in a few months. Currently I have a blown out front passenger shock and probably more than one control arm toasted. I'm about to do a total refresh to the front end and possibly the rear. Alll my previously vehicles had pretty sloppy bushings (old Hondas) and I often filled with a softer durometer poly to take up the slop. In no way do I want that constant engine hum coming through the cabin (learned my lesson with 90 duro) so I might as well let it be and go with OEM Lemforder. I am pretty sure all those ~$150 ebay kits have some garbage unknown rubber insert (IE Harbor Freight tire chock smell ) that won't last more than a few years. I'm pretty sure the 034 kit is on par with those as well.

[Gunnarrrrr]

The hardest part is finding lemforder’s part number since most shops try to hide them, then you can cross shop the cheaper stores more easily. This is really important with the front uppers, as most parts shops will list all the different audi numbers as cross compatible, even S4 and A4 numbers, which are very different. I got these numbers from trial and error by accidentally ordering A4 ones listed as S4. If you base your front uppers on those lemforder part numbers on the sheet, you can be sure you’re getting the S4 ones. The sources I used in the sheet are just where I found the absolute cheapest prices at the time. If you want tight steering, getting those S4 front upper bushings is crucial. They’re A LOT less rubber, and a lot more aluminum, and way stiffer.

Do the whole front end with lemforder OEM’s and I doubt you’ll feel the need for poly. My car handles like a brand new RS4 right off the lot in 2008 now.


Sent from my iPhone using Audizine Forum

[codemode]

Gunnarrrrr are you sure that’s the right axle bolt part number. It is suspiciously cheap, my 02 uses a 20$ M16 bolt.

Also what difference does S4 suspension make when driving over bumps and potholes?

[Gunnarrrrr]

Gunnarrrrr are you sure that’s the right axle bolt part number. It is suspiciously cheap, my 02 uses a 20$ M16 bolt.

Also what difference does S4 suspension make when driving over bumps and potholes?

yeah it’s cheap because it’s made by CRP/Rein

not much of a difference because almost everything is the same, except for tie rods, front upper control arm bushings, and the steering rack. All 3 of those together though, and you end up with a lot more stability over bumps and potholes and less pull on the highway when you hit one due to less bushing deflection, and the steering ends up feeling a lot more compliant and responsive.


Sent from my iPhone using Audizine Forum

[ye1low]

I went ahead and ordered the Meyle HD kit from FCP. They no longer honor the Groton group buy price. I needed something ASAP and I haven't heard anything bad about that kit. Not Lemforder but perhaps a close second? The price was $450 shipped.

[Gunnarrrrr]

I use meyle for tie rods, and stuff that lemforder stopped making(like subframe bushings and rear lower control arm bushings). They’re definitely a close second. If anything just as good, just not technically OEM.


Sent from my iPhone using Audizine Forum

[Danisson]

The driver's door lock module switch decided to let go right before I was preparing to come back home from a 400 mile trip. Just replaced the bastard last September when the whole module almost failed and I can't believe that now I have to take the door apart once again after everything else inside was taken care of not so long ago. Decided to buy a new, quality door lock module since I really do't want to waste any more time anytime soon just for messing around with cheap Chinese switches.

[willemml]

Had a super rough idle parked after a short drive... Car would be fine for 5-10 seconds, then suddenly dip to 500, then up to 1200, and then settle back to normal, this kept repeating.

Weird with no codes (other than low battery from weeks ago and a failed immobilizer from the day before that I haven't cleared yet.) I suspect MAF issue or leak in the intake/vac tubing.

[Mike Tries]

Ha. Well now, this is a funny story. Promise you won't be mad....

I was installing Aerocatch hood pins (which are, in fact, exactly as much of a pain as you think they are), and I was about 90% of the way through testing the fitment of the first one when the primary latch clicked. The hood latched. No matter... it is a little annoying, because somebody has to press down on the hood to relieve the for-some-reason massive tension on the latch while I pull the remainder of a cable, but it does open.

Or it did at least. That latch has popped its last. While, as you can see, I was in the middle of solving the very problem that stopped me in my tracks.

I tried having my kids push down on the hood, or even sit on it. I even piled a bunch of weights on top of it to exceed their weight. It might take an adult to push down and, I don't know, maybe wiggle the hood side to side while I pull the cable. It won't move mutch, but I suspect the Aerocatch is putting a little sideways tension on it at the moment.

I might try to remove the old latch by drilling it out through the grill. Is that a thing? Can that be done? Well, I may soon find out. That latch has a date with my Milwaukee.

[Mike Tries]

Fixed it. I had my wife push down on the hood since she's stronger than my little ones. I yanked on the cable. It popped, and so did the cloud of anxiety that's been following me since it got jammed. The pins are now installed, and the old latch is gone. I'll put photos over in the build thread.

[twfry]

I've kept my B6 in great condition since buying it new 22 years ago.

In the past month alone:

1) a rear caliper seized and the e-brake disconnected as a result as well
2) the AC condenser sprung a large leak and rest of AC system needed a refresh
3) the rear truck stopped opening due to the wires finally breaking requiring the trunk harness to be repaired

Love my car, but the frequency of things keeps increasing....

[willemml]

I also need to do an ac refresh.. it sprung a leak and stopped working, and I've since removed some of the pipes. I really hope the compressor I bought last year is still good. Eventually need to fix the heater as well, but that can wait for winter.

It feels like every other week something new stops working haha

[Gunnarrrrr]

My AC needs a refresh. my compressor is making a knocking sound so horrendous it made me bust out the compression tester kit to make sure my engine hadn’t actually exploded.

I’ve got a bunch of new parts all from nissens and mahle/behr, condenser, dryer, orifice tube, and a bag with every oem o ring from the dealership ready to go. Just need to finally splurge the $300 for a new denso compressor, and find an evaporator from nissens or behr. and probably pick up one of those big tanks from vevor or somethin to hook up my pump to and suck all the old refrigerant out. not looking forward to spending all that money considering my AC still blows relatively cold, but it’s time.


Sent from my iPhone using Audizine Forum

[ye1low]

To all of you doing AC work. Don't forget to swap out your Schrader valves for fresh new ones. I chased a super slow leak for years until I swapped mine out. They are god awfully expensive and are NOT the standard size as typical ones. They are some huge "purple" size format. Apparently, they are color coded and I have never seen one that size before. I found a stash years ago but ended paying almost $5/each for them. Also don't forget to lube up the o-ring and schrader with some Nylog on reinstallation.

[twfry]

To all of you doing AC work. Don't forget to swap out your Schrader valves for fresh new ones. I chased a super slow leak for years until I swapped mine out. They are god awfully expensive and are NOT the standard size as typical ones. They are some huge "purple" size format. Apparently, they are color coded and I have never seen one that size before. I found a stash years ago but ended paying almost $5/each for them. Also don't forget to lube up the o-ring and schrader with some Nylog on reinstallation.

Another Schrader value to replace is the fuel injector rail, mine went ten years ago. Apparently the plastic cap was the only thing that held the fuel in for awhile and then the cap eventually popped off and high pressure gas went everywhere in the engine bay while driving. I am lucky the whole engine bay did not ignite....

[willemml]

Oh that's really good to know about the schrader valves, I never thought to check those for a leak... looked everywhere else though.

[Mike Tries]

You know that long bolt that goes through the upper front spindle that holds the upper control arm ball joints in place? You know how it likes to seize in place? After struggling to get the passenger side off (but doing it successfully), I took to the driver side with lots of heat, plenty of PB Blaster (soaking for a couple days), and the patience of a monk. Wouldn't you know it, the stupid thing broke! I was working it out slowly with a breaker bar. Turn it a bit one way, then the other. Spray more penetrating oil. Add LOTS of heat. Work it back and forth a little more. Two steps forward, one step back. I'm OK with that, as long as it gets me to where I'm going. Then the stupid head snapped off. I spent all day yesterday getting that damn thing out. If it helps any of you in the future, here's what I did that eventually worked:

First, the torch does work. Trust in the torch. Get the spindle hot, and the metal HAS to expand. It's physics. When it expands, no amount of galvanic corrosion can resist it and it will loosen up a bit. It's not the only component to this puzzle, but it's a significant one.

Second, patience. Lots of it. Even when it breaks, you need to be patient.

Then, last, just go back and forth with the thing. My large hammer didn't work that well. It was the air hammer that saved the day on all of the bolts on the spindles, actually. Persistence with the air hammer, heat, penetrating oil, and trying to rotate the bolt are all really important.

One last thing: you might be able to get it unstuck by tightening the nut until it bottoms out. You can even put a spacer behind it to allow it to pull farther than it would normally. My bolt wouldn't rotate in the hole, so I was able to crank down on the nut and pull the bolt "in" (towards the rear of the car). Then, I was able to air hammer it back towards the front, or "out". Add lubricant. Add heat. Repeat. It'll come out. Home Depot actually stocked the bolt, so I was able to source a replacement already.

[codemode]

Yeah, don’t do that. Don’t heat up your aluminum knuckle, that’s how you get brittle aluminum. Sooner or later that part will break. Also don’t use the washer trick without putting one inside the hole or else the “ear” part will break as well. There are multiple tools designed to break that bolt free. Heating it is only fine if you have a steel knuckle. Also if you overheat it under tension your camber might get screwed due to plastic deformation.

Before I had the knowledge required to repair my car, a local mechanic did something similar to my car since the bolt was seized. I had to replace the whole knuckle afterwards…

[Mike Tries]

How did you know you had to replace the knuckle? Did it fail?

Edit: Also, what tools are there to free the bolt?

[ye1low]

How did you know you had to replace the knuckle? Did it fail?

Edit: Also, what tools are there to free the bolt?

https://www.ecstuning.com/b-schwaben.../019527sch01a/

[Gunnarrrrr]

call me insane but I replace the pinch bolt and its nut about once a year as annual maintenance, when doing a tire rotation or something else.


Sent from my iPhone using Audizine Forum

[Dr.B6Banter]

call me insane but I replace the pinch bolt and its nut about once a year as annual maintenance, when doing a tire rotation or something else.


Sent from my iPhone using Audizine Forum

Honestly, I never considered that but on a daily driver spending 15 minutes and $20 a year replacing them is a heck of a lot better than having to drill them out or replacing the entire knuckle.

[Mike Tries]

To be honest, I'm not sure what, exactly, made it get stuck. You can see when things are attacked by corrosion. You'll have flakes of Aluminum, or pitting, or something like that. These bolts (particularly the driver's side) were just wedged in there. I wonder if it was the pinch from those tabs kind of binding with the sides of the bolt shank? Anyway... I'll get at it tonight and get the front buttoned up. Then, off to the rear where things are a little more rusty...

[easyAudi]

OldGuy pinch bolt tips that served me well..in case others are seeing for the first time:
from here:

Jack up the steering knuckle to the normal loaded position and then try again. If the knuckle is hanging down it puts the the upper tie rod shafts in a bit of a bind and makes the pinch bolt harder to extract.

here:

Pinch bolts can be pure hell. Here's something that has worked for me. (link + text pasted below ) If you go this route you will need to wrap the upper ball joints with some heat reflective tape so you don't melt the boots.

here:

Over the years I have had the pleasure to remove quite a few pinch bolts. I found a method that works quite well for me.

First I remove the nut and mark both ends of the bolt so I can tell if I am beginning to twist the bolt.
Next I soak the bold with a penetrating oil. I have had good luck with PB Blaster.
Heat the knuckle evenly. I have managed it with a simple propane torch. MAP gas would work faster.

Then I use an impact wrench on a very low setting. I give it a few seconds in one direction and then reverse the wrench and hit it in the other direction. Pay attention to your marks so you don't inadvertently twist the bolt in half. Again, just a few seconds in each direction. Do this for a few minutes.

Repeat this procedure: Soak/heat/ gentle impact forward and reverse.

I have spent upwards of a hour with this procedure but have always managed to remove the bolt intact. Well worth the time to not have to drill or beat the hell out of it with a punch. The repeated gentle reversal of the impact wrench along with the heat seems to help break up the galvanic corrosion a lot better than simply applying torque in one direction.

[easyAudi]

also from OldGuy ( if I recall correct), there's an updated pinch bolt design, used in B8s:
narrowed 'step' in the middle to reduce corrosion / seizing. +5 mm longer. ~$8 ea old or new.

Original B6 pinch bolt:
N10576802 [ N 105 768 02 | N-105-768-02 ]
M10 x105 x26
https://www.genuineaudiparts.com/oem...crew-n10576802


Updated B8 design:
WHT007963 [ WHT 007 963 | WHT-007-963 ]
M10 x110 x24
https://www.genuineaudiparts.com/oem...bolt-wht007963

[Mike Tries]

Thank you for your input on this! It really was discouraging to break that stupid thing, especially because of how good it felt to get the first one out after some persistence. But it's out, and hopefully tonight I'll have the energy to just go at it and finish the front.

[easyAudi]

you're welcome! ..always happy with tidbits that help the forum + new B6ers.
(..like me, long ago, learning an *insane* amount from scratch reading posts and absorbing the billion oldGuy nuggets.)

re: the rear suspension, given your experience, you likely already know about some possible hurdles. But if not on your radar,
- rear upper control arm outward bolt (camber bolt) often rusts to the control arm. perfect.
- inward bolt's 'press-in' nut can also rust and be a pain. it's a weird octagonal design. definitely get new.
... had to drop the subframe to cut it off. The quattro gas tank is in the way of fully removing the bolt ( if not rusted). Dropping it also gives room to cut it out.
If dropping the subframe, consider flipping the bolt direction of the toe-adjustment bolt. It allows future removal w/o again dropping the subframe.

the 'press-in' nut that's well, a delight:
https://www.audizine.com/forum/showt...1#post15045674

..from this thread, especially Dr.B6Banter's photos helped a ton w visualizing what the hell I was getting into..
https://www.audizine.com/forum/showt...1#post15045530

Direct link to the internet archive of dougyfresh's quoted original thread [ euroaddiction site is perhaps long gone.. ]
https://web.archive.org/web/20130603...html#post79812

..also enjoy your build thread. 50% enjoy reading and 150% in awe of the amount of work + detail and effort to document it all. Maybe one day my new-to-me avant goes that route, if i gather 47k hours of free time. and 3k% more skills.

[Mike Tries]

Oh man. I'm dreading moving to the rear lol. I'm still struggling to insert a ball joint into the spindle. The upper fore arm slipped in. Then the aft arm got stuck. So, I tried to remove the fore arm, which was now, somehow, stuck. Got it out, inserted the aft arm. Now the fore arm won't go in anymore. I got tired and went to bed. I'll retry that tonight. It would be nice to get it done this weekend.

[codemode]

How did you know you had to replace the knuckle? Did it fail?

Edit: Also, what tools are there to free the bolt?

One of my upper control arms started dancing up and down, the upper portion of the knuckle was heavily deformed.

61746850 and VAS6085 come to mind. They’re expensive AF but if you own a shop, it is a worthy investment.

[Puddin Tane]

ECS has specialty pinch-bolt-remover air hammer drifts on sale right now, ridiculously cheap
https://www.ecstuning.com/b-schwaben-parts/schwaben-steering-kunckle-pinch-bolt-tool/019527sch01a/

[Puddin Tane]

My take on why these bolts seize so badly so often: they're galvanized, and zinc oxide takes up more volume, per mole, than the zinc metal it came from. When the metal-to-oxide reaction occurs between a galvanized rod and a zero-clearance bore, it develops enormous pressure that locks the rod in place. Ergo all the white powder you see (zinc oxide) when these bastards finally come out. Audi F'ed up by making the bore zero clearance then fixed their F-up by issuing a stepped-down bolt.

[Mike Tries]

I don't think the pinch bolts are galvanized. Galvanized bolts have a silvery finish, right? These were black. There wasn't any powder in the holes either. Now, the bolt that holds the tie rod into the spindle... that's galvanized, and there was much corrosion. But at least those had the decency to come out of the hole.

Also, heh.... I found out after finally getting everything together on the front driver corner that I installed the control arms backwards! I had the fore unit in the aft position, and the aft unit in the fore position. I must have thought "short on left, long on right" when I observed the passenger side assembly, instead of "short towards rear and long towards front". That's fixed now.

[Kevin C]

The zinc will sacrifice itself to protect the aluminum. In a steel on aluminum joint the aluminum is more anodic and corrodes. Stainless steel for bolts will increase the corrosion rate. The issue as mentioned is clearance and that water gets in the pinch bolt area. Even worse is if its salt water.


Nice chart and some good info:

https://www.ssina.com/education/corr...nic-corrosion/

I have been using zinc plated bolts and anti seize and fortunately I live in an area that does not use salt.

[Mike Tries]

Hah. Heroic. The replacement bolt that I bought is Zinc coated. That one, and the original that's still on the other side, are both slathered in anti-seize. I might pull them off at the end of every season like Gunnarrrrr does. I suspect that I'll have to take them off after every event if the cheap control arms don't stay in adjustment...

[Kevin C]

Hah. Heroic. The replacement bolt that I bought is Zinc coated. That one, and the original that's still on the other side, are both slathered in anti-seize. I might pull them off at the end of every season like Gunnarrrrr does. I suspect that I'll have to take them off after every event if the cheap control arms don't stay in adjustment...

I daily drive mine in the PNW, despite the very wet winters, I have never had a bolt stick in the 10 years I have had the car.

[easyAudi]

junkyard car, not mine, but front power seat controls were broken, and powering via fuse under the dash didn't work (unless I had the wrong fuse). So...I directly powered to seat motors.

Beware, pretty sure I broke the motor connector clips when I pulled them off. Do your own research on properly removing clips before attempting on your own car.

of course, *use at your own risk*, as you could: cause sparks, damage the seat motor, short out your power tool battery, or die. somehow. But to some, this might be useful. Apologies if these type of photos exist elsewhere. I've seen comments, but wasn't sure which motors, etc.

My purpose - move the seat to access and remove clutch master cylinder, pedal assembly, etc. i used a dewalt battery and didn't care if it damaged the junkyard seat motor. Obviously, better to use a 12v power tool battery / car battery, etc.

example (gross) motor, this is for raise/lower seat, on the lower left of the seat. put + and - to the large tabs ( arrows ) Switch your connections if you want the seat to travel in opposite direction.


the motor for moving seats forward / back, is at the bottom, furthest towards the back. (sry, couldn't get a photo lying down) and has drive cables going L/R to the seat tracks.