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  1. #1
    Established Member Two Rings wagonlove's Avatar
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    Something's Broke - B7 A4 to B7 S4 front brake upgrade problems

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    In short I'm in the middle of an A4 to S4 front brake upgrade on my B7 A4 Avant but ran into a big problem - after finishing the install my caliper (the underside that sits above the rotor) is mashed up against the outer ring of the new larger rotors and basically makes it non-driveable. Its like the caliper isn't deep enough for the new rotor despite that the new larger S4 caliper carrier fitting just fine over the rotor. I got the new larger S4 dust shields, rotors, pads, caliper carriers all mounted up and they looked great but then when I put on the existing A4 caliper on top of the carrier there is no space left between it and the new rotors and they are completely touching (again not on the sides where the pads hit but on the top where the calipers sit over the rotor).

    Am I missing something really obvious here? From all that I've learned around the forums, online, AZ etc....this should be a simple upgrade once you get the right parts and here's what I believed to be true:
    ASSUMPTIONS:
    1) B7 A4 and S4 calipers are the same thus my original B7 A4 calipers can remain in place for the upgrade (TRUE or FALSE?)
    2) Upgrade requires the larger B7 S4 caliper carrier which I did (TRUE or FALSE?)
    3) Upgrade requires larger B7 S4 front brake pads which I did (TRUE or FALSE?)
    4) Upgraded rotor should be a OEM replacement B7 S4 345x30mm rotor which is what I ordered (TRUE or FALSE?)
    5) Guide Pins/slider pins from the B7 A4 caliper carriers can be reused on the new larger B7 S4 caliper carriers which I did (TRUE or FALSE?)
    6) Upgrade can accommodate either the original A4 dust shields (bent to make larger or left alone) OR can use the larger S4 dust shields

    *I can't get pics up until the morning and also can't recheck and measure the rotors until tomorrow morning.

    Problem Area Possibilities are:
    1) Rotor is too large which I'm checking into
    2) Caliper carrier is the wrong size (checked with ECS and they verified it was the correct part)
    3) I forgot to order another larger S4 part that I didn't know about?
    4) B7 A4 caliper can't be reused for this upgrade
    5) larger dust shields are causing a problem
    6) ?????????????????????????

    All thoughts and advice welcome
    2012 B8 Avant - 19x9 Peelers, H&R F&R Sway Bars, Alukreuz

  2. #2
    Senior Member Four Rings Salt n Peppa's Avatar
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    There are a few threads about this, I think people just ended up grinding it down to fit.

  3. #3
    Established Member Two Rings wagonlove's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Salt n Peppa View Post
    There are a few threads about this, I think people just ended up grinding it down to fit.
    No conclusive results that I can find anywhere on the internet or AZ.

    I happen to have a 2005.5 A4 avant = its an '05 with the newer B7 body style. Looks like different members are theorizing that the caliper on the first B7 model may be smaller (maybe shallower) than some of the later year B7's - I'm going to call Audi tomorrow and do some research. Has anyone else cracked the code on why these rub on some B7's but not on others with the same size rotors and carriers?
    2012 B8 Avant - 19x9 Peelers, H&R F&R Sway Bars, Alukreuz

  4. #4
    Established Member Two Rings wagonlove's Avatar
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    I had my shop grind down a decent amount of the stock A4 calipers and eventually they fit. My shop also said when turning the rotors were also rubbing on the caliper carriers and they decided to grind those down a bit as well

    As of today they are working and driving with no rubbing but its very cold so I'm interested in seeing if warm weather has any impact.

    **MY ADVICE**if you have any early model B7....2005 or 2006 I would be very aware that your "bolt on kit" from companies like ECS or even your accumulated setup like mine probably will not fit as a bolt on setup and you will need to grind down the calipers on both ends as well certain areas on the carriers and plan for this in advance so you're daily driver isn't stuck in the garage for 2 weeks while you try and figure out what the heck is going on. Seems like the guys with later models on the forum who have done this just keep saying "mine fit fine" but your's likely will not.
    2012 B8 Avant - 19x9 Peelers, H&R F&R Sway Bars, Alukreuz

  5. #5
    Registered User Four Rings chris@fifteen52's Avatar
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    I have a 2005.5 B7 A4 Avant and did the A4 to S4 front brake conversion a few years ago and had no problems at all. All of the issues seem to stem from the aftermarket S4 carriers.

  6. #6
    Established Member Two Rings wagonlove's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by chris@fifteen52 View Post
    I have a 2005.5 B7 A4 Avant and did the A4 to S4 front brake conversion a few years ago and had no problems at all. All of the issues seem to stem from the aftermarket S4 carriers.
    Problem with your comment is I'm finding guys not having problems with the carriers or substituting out the Rep carriers for the OEM Audi ones and they still have the problem so I feel like that isn't the main issue. I'm working with ECS to determine if the guide pin bushings have anything to do with it.

    Do you still have yours on your Avant? If so could you PM me a picture or 2 to compare. I'm still trying to figure out how on such a simple upgrade so many guys are having problems while others aren't.
    2012 B8 Avant - 19x9 Peelers, H&R F&R Sway Bars, Alukreuz

  7. #7
    Established Member Two Rings wagonlove's Avatar
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    UPDATE: Week 1
    ~ Audible rubbing on occuring on hard right and left turns and u-turns but it seems occasional rather than consistent.
    ~ Car is now pulling left (WTF?!) - probably brake pad rub slightly on on side, possibly due to carriers and possibly due to the EBC redstuff pads shape while bedding but I doubt it
    ~ Car also seems like the pads are rubbing (due to faster speed reduction while coasting) making me think I'm still having a placement issue due to the carriers or caliper fitment
    ~ Still 30-40 degress outside so I'll need to get updates with different weather as things are already pretty close as it is
    2012 B8 Avant - 19x9 Peelers, H&R F&R Sway Bars, Alukreuz

  8. #8
    Registered User Four Rings chris@fifteen52's Avatar
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    I dont think I could get a pic for a while but I did just recently install new Tyrolsport caliper bushings because mine were shot.

  9. #9
    Active Member Two Rings houshmanzilli's Avatar
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    First post in audizine! Used to be all over vortex, but no longer have my GTI...I did this same style upgrade on my mk4 and no issues. But with my A4, Im running into this same issue as wagonlove... I have ordered new guide pins/bushings to see if this will tighten things up and let everything clear. Im not having issues with the clearing the carrier..just looks like the bottom part of the caliper. wagonlove, have you made any strides? or have you resorted to grinding down the caliper?
    TIA

  10. #10
    Established Member Two Rings wagonlove's Avatar
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    Just ended up have a shop grind down both calipers on the inside (top area) and even a bit on the sides.

    Here's the other few updates I meant to post but never did:

    UPDATE 2: (After Month 1 - around 1200 miles)
    • Brakes pads (EBC RedStuff) - still not worn in perfect yet and seem to be lacking stopping ability but are improving weekly
    • Still get caliper/rotor grinding on heavy turning but much less frequent now
    • Really bad rubbing on the tops of the rotors to the inside of the calipers under moderate to heavy braking


    UPDATE 3: (Month 3 - March/April weather - around 3000 miles)
    • Pads kick ass now and are performing like I want them to - they are amazing and sometimes a bit too grabby but then again they aren't meant to be OEM everyday pads.
    • *NOTE: The pads don't fade at all and have a strong increasing level of bite the harder you push the pedal - MUCH more so that stock pads
    • Rotor to caliper rub happens during really heavy braking (still occasional not always)
    • Rotor to caliper rub anytime I let my car sit for more than a day (especially in cold weather) - its like the caliper starts to sag. This goes away after about 15 seconds as soon as I start moving so basically it is fine by the time I shift from reverse to 1st and into second.


    UPDATE 4: (May - weather is hotter - thousands more miles)
    • Pads still work amazing - still bite hard with no fade
    • Still rubs under very heavy breaking (this doesn't seem like its going to stop happening at this point)
    • I'm considering having a shop grind a bit more out of the inside of the calipers
    • Just ordered the Tyrolsport RCS Caliper Stiffening Kit that puts in new metal alloy bushings instead of the OEM rubber - we'll see if that will help with the caliper flex under heavy braking a colder weather
    2012 B8 Avant - 19x9 Peelers, H&R F&R Sway Bars, Alukreuz

  11. #11
    Active Member Two Rings houshmanzilli's Avatar
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    Did you ever replace your caliper guide pins/bushings?? And thanks for your help!

  12. #12
    Established Member Two Rings wagonlove's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by houshmanzilli View Post
    Did you ever replace your caliper guide pins/bushings?? And thanks for your help!
    No not yet but that's the tyrolsport kit I was referencing above. Just got them in and should be replacing in the next week or two when I get time. I'm hoping it helps. They have a video on their site and you tube that shows what it's intended to do and might be a nice fix for the issue
    2012 B8 Avant - 19x9 Peelers, H&R F&R Sway Bars, Alukreuz

  13. #13
    Active Member One Ring
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    Imagine if 5 years later, wagonlove finally find the answer! I need it lol!

  14. #14
    Established Member Two Rings wagonlove's Avatar
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    GAVE UP!

    Quote Originally Posted by Willmaster View Post
    Imagine if 5 years later, wagonlove finally find the answer! I need it lol!
    I ended up never figuring it out and sadly with kids and life didn't have the time to trial and error it on my daily driver that I used for 40-50k miles a year for work

    In shot I threw in the towel - took it to my local german auto shop and had them convert it back to stock and moved on. Pretty pissed after all I spent and worked on it only to have a weird issue that hardly any of the B7 models have. I ended up just buying a B8 avant and putting my 19x9 S5 peelers on it, a few suspension bits and becoming a dad with no time for tuning anymore! Such is life

    I think it was one of two things
    1) the calipers were different on early 2005-2006 models (most groups and users had a theory that they changed OEM vendors and there was a slight tolerance difference that was only noticed IF you did this upgrade conversion)

    2) the aftermarket calipers are not built to exact spec or may have been from the earlier problem and matched to the early models not the later ones.

    My recommendation is get calipers directly from AUDI or from an S4 directly so you know it is going to work

    As an afterthought I loved the pads but also woudl recommend going gback to a HAWK pad that doesn't dust as black and bad which sucked on my peelers.
    **I think I still have a few leftover parts (the S4 dust shilds and the Tyrolsport Bushing kit if you are interested and still planning this upgrade.)
    2012 B8 Avant - 19x9 Peelers, H&R F&R Sway Bars, Alukreuz



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