Monty’s Single Turbo -> Back to Twins (Compound)

[britishturbo]

Couldn't we set the failsafe based on actual AFR? no added complication to the system ( and less places to leak)...

phila_dot and I have talked he feels (I agree) that using the windeband signal isn't reliable enough alone...

[Monty23]

Makes sense.

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/avm-35-2126

Not bad, $100 to add a failsafe, although I know you don't like AEM products....

[britishturbo]

Makes sense.

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/avm-35-2126

Not bad, $100 to add a failsafe, although I know you don't like AEM products....

I think you need the gauge to get the actual 0-5V output...

[SpeedWorksAuto]

I had to do the same thing for my setup. I had to get a tire size calculator, and a gear calculator and input the numbers. I tested it by using stock numbers and the calculator spit out very close numbers to what ecuX has for a stock s4 profile. I ended up around 67.4 for RPM per MPH with my 19" wheel tire setup and my 2.8 third gear.

[Monty23]

By the way my boost profile currently looks, I should see 30psi @ 4100rpm.... I'm so excited to try this out and see how this feels!

BT - do you think I should run a stiffer WG spring? I have the 1 bar spring set now.

[britishturbo]

By the way my boost profile currently looks, I should see 30psi @ 4100rpm.... I'm so excited to try this out and see how this feels!

BT - do you think I should run a stiffer WG spring? I have the 1 bar spring set now.

I just upgraded my spring... it now only takes 20% WGDC to hit 30 psi lol.

Basically you want the spring to be set to the lowest safe boost you ever want to run, and usually should not be less than 50% of your max desired boost...

I have around a ~21psi spring now... should just work for my goals

[Monty23]

Just to clarify some things. The camera car was the Ko4 car. Race 1 Monty23 misses 4th. Race 2 B5A4GT28 miss 4th.

Ko4 car
Pj ko4's
034 tuned
awe intercoolers
rs4 y pipe
23/24 psi. (AWE gauge was being exchanged at the time of the race.)
blah blah blah

STK car
Precision PT5858
DM forged drop in rods
BritishTuning
25 psi
blah blah blah

Neither car has meth and both on 93 octane.

[Don Supreme]

Good stuff.

[SpeedWorksAuto]

Looks like you will be really close on a 605 car. My buddy raced a 605 in his pretty well sorted k04 car and it was almost like watching this race.

[NOTORIOUS VR]

^^ Looks like that 605 car is a little stronger then the 5858 car IMO...

But great races for sure.

[SpeedWorksAuto]

^^ Looks like that 605 car is a little stronger then the 5858 car IMO...

But great races for sure.

The 605 in this video was running 100% meth also. I was thining Monty's car would be a bit closer with Meth now.

[Monty23]

Meth is quite the little go go juice. Here is meth base tune. Nice midrange toque bump!

[NOTORIOUS VR]

Very nice!

[Monty23]

PT5858 boost profile @30psi

[034Motorsport]

Typically you want to run about a wastegate spring that has a pressure of about half your maximum planned boost. 1BAR spring will support 30psi no problem, but over that you may start to push open the wastegate. A lot of this depends on backpressure and such, as the pressure differential on both sides of the WG will determine whether it opens on its own.

You also don't want to run too high of a WG spring, or you will be using you WG excessively.

As I mentioned in the thread of the K04 vs STK, good stuff. Car is really coming together and I bet you are very happy. Makes me miss my STK a lot. =(

[britishturbo]

Wow Max we actually agreed on something... lol

Yeah It's been fun remote tuning this car, Monty you still gonna come down this Sat maybe?

[britishturbo]

And just for the fun of it... my turbo vs Monty's turbo lol

[britishturbo]

Here's that run of his showing WTQ and WHP, as well as a new feature... Wideband AFR logging through the ECU...
Still on the rich side as I dial in his tune for the Meth too.

[Monty23]

My power really drops off up top lol! I need some better flowing intake components! and 2.8 cams...

[britishturbo]

My power really drops off up top lol! I need some better flowing intake components! and 2.8 cams...

You'll gain some up top from that but you are probably close to the limit of turbo flow

[Monty23]

I might have to try an .82 AR housing.... Maybe I can borrow Lidos?

[britishturbo]

I might have to try an .82 AR housing.... Maybe I can borrow Lidos?

That will help reduce back pressure at the expense of spool but it's not going to increase the compressor wheel flow... you are at or near the limit of comp wheel flow.

[lidoautogroup]

I might have to try an .82 AR housing.... Maybe I can borrow Lidos?

I went with the .64 housing instead lol.

[Monty23]

Oh, I knew I should have went with the 6262 lol. Atleast I still have a 2500rpm powerband...

[britishturbo]

Oh, I knew I should have went with the 6262 lol. Atleast I still have a 2500rpm powerband...

It's always a compromise man lol
And you still have power up high just not as much as down low.
If they made a 6060 it would be about perfect haha

[Monty23]

I can't imagine how e85 would feel in my car....

[jibberjive]

I see, I thought Monty was paying you like some of the others.

[britishturbo]

I see, I thought Monty was paying you like some of the others.

Nope, sometimes I'm overly generous to my friends haha

[slow ride]

Are you guys removing all the emissions crap on top of the intake in the tunes also? Are the cars to the point where they run clean in most if not all driving conditions and no codes, check engine lights, etc.? Props to you BT for helping all these STK guys out. Did you pick up on the Audi tuning from Nefmoto that quick or did you have experience from other motronic ecu's? I'm really starting to think about doing a STK on my S4 come winter time if you're still tinkering with them :)

I think the .82 A/R might pick up some power from reduced backpressure helping with pumping loss of the engine as a system. It's hard to say without trying it, but having a nice power band is never a bad thing and probably makes the car more fun to drive. I'd give up a few HP for better response in most cases.

[catbed]

Are you guys removing all the emissions crap on top of the intake in the tunes also? Are the cars to the point where they run clean in most if not all driving conditions and no codes, check engine lights, etc.?

Only emissions crap on top of the intake is EVAP. Others are necessary for proper function. I'm assuming only rear o2s are deleted and maybe mono lambda, since it's a STK and all.

[LINDW4LL]

I wonder how the spool compares between a .82 5858 and the 6262. It might make more sense to go straight to a 6262

[Monty23]

Yes, saying BT is generous is most definitely an understatement. I am very thankful to call BT my friend even though I have not met him in person yet. Hopefully we can change that soon ;) I owe him big time for all the help he has given me, not only with tuning, but with sound advice.

[MadAudi]

6266 takes forever to spool, even on a 3.0L with fully built heads...

...but the power up top is unbelievable, even on a base tune.

my .02

[LINDW4LL]

6266 takes forever to spool, even on a 3.0L with fully built heads...

Won't that improve a bit as the tune gets dialed in? Still will be laggy though. Do you have a boost curve graph. How laggy is it?

[UkuRiSh]

Won't that improve a bit as the tune gets dialed in? Still will be laggy though. Do you have a boost curve graph. How laggy is it?

I'm happy with my graph CEA 6266 T4 .68 AR still working on tune , trying to make 22-24 psi by 4000 rpm and my old setup only hit 10 psi by 4000 rpm .


16 psi run non tuned ecu and 21 psi tweaked file

[Monty23]

Impressive Ukurish, how does the power feel?

[UkuRiSh]

Impressive Ukurish, how does the power feel?

feel's like i'm going to moon :) joking this is 2nd and 3rd gear pull error graph . Feels much better then old setup nothing special on power yet but I will update some time .

[034Motorsport]

Just to touch on the turbine AR discussion, we've done quite extensive testing with different housings on everything from the 5858 to a GT42RS. In every single example, the smallest turbine AR available produced the best powerband without more than a 10-15whp limit to peak power, and a hot vs. cold day can make more of a difference than that.

For example, on the GT42RS and our 3.0L APB, the .86AR turbine produced within 15whp of the 1.25AR, but produced a much much wider powerband. These 5v motors just seem to like a really small AR. On our 2.0L Time Attack motor, same thing; with a 6262 and 600whp, the .64AR turbine had a much broader powerband with no or barely any effect on peak power.

Here is a graph of my 6262 on a mild California 91oct pump tune. This was before refining it, and with the race gas tune and 25psi, the .64AR turbine hit 22psi by 4000rpm.

[britishturbo]

Just to touch on the turbine AR discussion, we've done quite extensive testing with different housings on everything from the 5858 to a GT42RS. In every single example, the smallest turbine AR available produced the best powerband without more than a 10-15whp limit to peak power, and a hot vs. cold day can make more of a difference than that.

For example, on the GT42RS and our 3.0L APB, the .86AR turbine produced within 15whp of the 1.25AR, but produced a much much wider powerband. These 5v motors just seem to like a really small AR. On our 2.0L Time Attack motor, same thing; with a 6262 and 600whp, the .64AR turbine had a much broader powerband with no or barely any effect on peak power.

Here is a graph of my 6262 on a mild California 91oct pump tune. This was before refining it, and with the race gas tune and 25psi, the .64AR turbine hit 22psi by 4000rpm.

Compare power above 6500 though between the two housings.
I'm pretty sure you will see a huge difference up there.
Comparing both 5858 and 6262 on a 0.63 A/R to my AGP Zeta 3.2 with 0.82 A/R my power above 6500 is insane compared to the other turbos.
Can you please show estimated or dyno HP between the two housings. Not just low end.

[034Motorsport]

Compare power above 6500 though between the two housings.
I'm pretty sure you will see a huge difference up there.
Comparing both 5858 and 6262 on a 0.63 A/R to my AGP Zeta 3.2 with 0.82 A/R my power above 6500 is insane compared to the other turbos.
Can you please show estimated or dyno HP between the two housings. Not just low end.

We rev our Time Attack car to +9k, and our GTi-RS to 8k... I revved my car to 8k as well, but as I mentioned, I never pushed my 6262 past 25psi and just under 600whp. At 8k, I still had very strong accel and the power kept going.

I've yet to see a single dyno that proves a larger AR is more beneficial to a larger powerband on an Audi 5v motor. I'll take a large powerband increase and more torque over a sub 5% limit on peak power. Were not talking 6500rpm here.

Now remember, can't compare other cars to this motor. It's just not the same. On some cars, the larger AR's matter significantly more. Manifold design and other items can change how much this affects, but time and time and time again we find the smallest possible AR is the fastest; we typically are not going for peak power, but being fast.