Steering Issues - 2013

[spl1011]

Anyone know the procedure for Adapting the End Stops?

In the self study guide it says this is done after a G85 calibration and is done while driving the car without the need of a scan tool. Someone in the Vagcom steering fix thread noted their invoice for a new rack included "Performed End Stop Adaptation" so there is a procedure, curious as to what it is.

Cheers,

I believe the ross tech site had instructions for a Golf. May still apply to our cars since the Golf had EPS first. Ive tried searching in the past for Audi specific instructions (since A3's have had EPS as well) but only found the Golf instructions.

[Seinsmeld13]

Imagine how the public and press would react if Toyota had this kind of STEERING problem with their cars.... 60 Minutes or Nightline feature? Massive recall? People all lawyered up? Heads rolling at Toyota? In this case Audi seems to benefit from being a less popular brand with a less mainstream consumer base.

Seriously? Audi almost went out of business back in the 80's with the unintended acceleration allegation which turned to be false in the end. Their sales plummeted as a result. It took them years to gain back sales. Anyway....

[Gromit]

Seriously? Audi almost went out of business back in the 80's with the unintended acceleration allegation which turned to be false in the end. Their sales plummeted as a result. It took them years to gain back sales. Anyway....

You'd think they'd have learned their lesson from that and done more, faster when the current problem first arose. Or at least not try to call this a "comfort" issue. Since my car is still on the boat, I don't have first hand experience (and hopefully I won't ever have it), but from all I've read here, this issue is well beyond "comfort." But who knows, maybe Audi is throwing as many resources to fix this issue as it can.

[BzzzBom]

It is sort of a comfort issue in that I am very uncomfortable when my car goes in and out of its lane during Friday rush hour traffic on the 405 freeway in Los Angeles.

[pkopecki]

I just called my dealer regarding the steering fix and they claim there is no open TSB on this issue. True or False??

[Jimmy Dark]

I just called my dealer regarding the steering fix and they claim there is no open TSB on this issue. True or False??

False... TSB 2033044/3 Rel 18-Mar, 2013

[Seinsmeld13]

It is sort of a comfort issue in that I am very uncomfortable when my car goes in and out of its lane during Friday rush hour traffic on the 405 freeway in Los Angeles.

My wife got pulled for suspected DUI a few weeks back as she was wandering so bad. Today with the steering slip issue now eliminated thanks to the OP and Thomasz and my Bielstein PSS10's set at 4 front and back this car is a dream to drive. Anyone still driving with this slip issue needs to get this corrected ASAP, takes 5 minutes tops. Good luck boys.

[holmes4]

I went to turn off the steering assist using VAG-COM and found it was already off. My guess is that the dealer did this when I brought the car in for the steering rack replacement in January, as I noticed that all my VAG-COM mods had been removed when I picked up the car.

[[email protected]]

I believe the ross tech site had instructions for a Golf. May still apply to our cars since the Golf had EPS first. Ive tried searching in the past for Audi specific instructions (since A3's have had EPS as well) but only found the Golf instructions.

Yes, all I've seen are VW adaptation methods which don't seem to be applicable.

There is a method listed for A6 4G models that involves holding the wheel at full lock on each side for 10 seconds, but that also doesn't seem applicable.

Asked a friend who is a parts manager at a dealership and I'm not sure he caught the gist of what I was asking, however he did say they had a tech quit after spending a whole day trying to align and perform a basic setting after doing a steering rack. He quit the next day.

Thanks,

[s4pwndu]

False... TSB 2033044/3 Rel 18-Mar, 2013

What does your signature mean? Did you pass on taking possession of your ordered S4? If so, why?

What is Eps Tsb? Is that related to this thread?

[mattchat]

Yeah no kidding, just order it and enjoy since it's gonna take 3 months to get to you anyway. The steering issues really aren't as bad as people are making out, at least not en masse, there are certainly some with pretty bad complaints but I find the steering fine, and am confident it will get better. And there are already some fixes in play.

What does your signature mean? Did you pass on taking possession of your ordered S4? If so, why?

What is Eps Tsb? Is that related to this thread?

[Seinsmeld13]

Yeah no kidding, just order it and enjoy since it's gonna take 3 months to get to you anyway. The steering issues really aren't as bad as people are making out, at least not en masse, there are certainly some with pretty bad complaints but I find the steering fine, and am confident it will get better. And there are already some fixes in play.

The steering issues for the ones who have it or in my case did have it is terrible. Mine was so bad that I was seriously considering selling this car. Today I'm taking the long route home. Totally different car with this fix. You are one of the lucky ones and that includes the Rockies. Go Oilers!

[Jimmy Dark]

What does your signature mean? Did you pass on taking possession of your ordered S4? If so, why?

What is Eps Tsb? Is that related to this thread?

I ordered a S4 in December, it arrived to my local dealer in March and I didn't buy it. Just don't have the inclination nor patience to deal with a known defect on a new car... especially something as important as steering. I've got other cars so skipped the warranty service hassle and am waiting to see if Audi gets the EPS (electric power steering) sorted out.

[visualguy]

I ordered a S4 in December, it arrived to my local dealer in March and I didn't buy it. Just don't have the inclination nor patience to deal with a known defect on a new car... especially something as important as steering. I've got other cars so skipped the warranty service hassle and am waiting to see if Audi gets the EPS (electric power steering) sorted out.

Smart - I would do the same.

I'm somewhat surprised that Audi hasn't fixed the problem(s) with the steering yet.

I find that the last one or two production years of a German car model are the only somewhat safe times to buy it...

[BzzzBom]

Smart - I would do the same.

I'm somewhat surprised that Audi hasn't fixed the problem(s) with the steering yet.

I find that the last one or two production years of a German car model are the only somewhat safe times to buy it...

Usually the mid cycle face lift doesn't introduce new problems. If it weren't for the crappy steering we would be happy campers.

[afig367]

I spoke to a lemon lawyer this morning (purely out of curiosity.... I'm not considering doing anything with the car), and he suggested that the biggest problem with Audis (i.e., the one they care about most re: a fix) is excessive oil consumption. His point was that manufacturers have to look at all of their model lines, engines, etc., and they prioritize what to fix based on how pervasive the issue is, it's likelihood to cause expensive damage, etc., and that they probably care more about the oil issue than they do steering.

Anyway, that was just one guy's opinion, and he was in no way discounting the steering problems we're having.

I did get the impression, though, that the "We're working on it" TSB is little more than an effort to keep cars out of the service bays. Per the law, if you're car is in more than 3x for the same problem, or 30 days, you have a strong case that your car is a lemon. So now when you call up and say you have a steering problem and you get a response like, "No need to come in. They're working on a problem," that really only serves to protect AoA. That said, you can force the appointment.

[R&R72]

I am (or was) thinking about buying a new 2013 S4 but this whole steering thing has me a little freaked. The sales guys at two different dealerships both claim ignorance by saying that they never heard of any of the steering issues until I recently bought them up. Is it somehow possible that at this point after hundreds if not thousands of posts about this all over the internet and the release of the March 18 TSB that any Audi dealer in the US could possibly claim with a straight face to not know about these issues??

[handruin]

I am (or was) thinking about buying a new 2013 S4 but this whole steering thing has me a little freaked. The sales guys at two different dealerships both claim ignorance by saying that they never heard of any of the steering issues until I recently bought them up. Is it somehow possible that at this point after hundreds if not thousands of posts about this all over the internet and the release of the March 18 TSB that any Audi dealer in the US could possibly claim with a straight face to not know about these issues??

The sales people may not know all the technical issues and it's in their favor to not discuss them and plead ignorance. If you're aware of the issue from this forum then what are you to gain from getting the sales person to acknowledge it? It's a strange tactic if you're trying to use it as leverage for reducing the purchase price. You could go talk to the service department to get more information than the sales people if you want more/less information than you'll find here.

[ThemisN]

Pardon me if I havent caught on to this yet, but does the issue present itself from the beginning of ownership, or after several thousand miles? I havent felt it yet with my S4 that I picked up this weekend, so Im surious.

[achilleas101]

i ordered mine in December, picked it up a couple weeks ago. In between, i asked my dealer if he'd heard of anything. He hadn't. He checked with the service guys. nothing. I asked him again last week during a different conversation. Nothing. he had no reason to lie to me after i'd already picked up the car, and i told him i'm confident that audi will figure it out, and even some people have found a potential vag com fix. he's never been shy about giving it to me straight, so i think it's just not as well known as we may think.

[handruin]

Pardon me if I havent caught on to this yet, but does the issue present itself from the beginning of ownership, or after several thousand miles? I havent felt it yet with my S4 that I picked up this weekend, so Im surious.

It can take several thousand miles. I didn't see my first real notch issue until near 9K miles but had a feeling of a loose issue much earlier on. Mine was a bit atypical from the other people reporting their issues in this thread. Perhaps now that it has been warmer out I'm not noticing the notch issue much any more.

[R&R72]

Thanks. Nope - not trying to use it as leverage at all. Just on a fact finding mission to help determine whether to plunk down $50k+ on a new car with apparently known issues. Now knowing about the issues I think it would be strange for anyone to NOT ask a dealer about the issues before making the decision to buy.

[handruin]

Thanks. Nope - not trying to use it as leverage at all. Just on a fact finding mission to help determine whether to plunk down $50k+ on a new car with apparently known issues. Now knowing about the issues I think it would be strange for anyone to NOT ask a dealer about the issues before making the decision to buy.

This forum thread is about the best you'll find for info on the issue unless you find someone on the inside of Audi that can share more details. I wasn't meaning to fault you for getting more info before purchasing the car. I was just surprised that you seemed bothered by the sales people not knowing so I was suggesting you talk to the service people. Even there you'll find one dealerships aren't as much in the know about the issue as others.

As for wether or not to buy the S4 because of this possible issue...that's a tough call. Some forum members have had the issue far worse than others. Mine is annoying but it wouldn't keep me from buying the vehicle.

[R&R72]

Everything you say makes sense and is very much appreciated. To clarify, I really wasn't bothered that the sales guys claimed not to know but I just felt it seemed kind of unusual.

In any event does it make a difference, at least with respect to the rack issue and not necessarily with the software issue, when the car was built? For example, if there is an S4 on the lot built 4-5 months ago vs. one built 1-2 months ago? Apologies in advance if this has already been discussed. Thanks.

[Mrads]

As for wether or not to buy the S4 because of this possible issue...that's a tough call. Some forum members have had the issue far worse than others. Mine is annoying but it wouldn't keep me from buying the vehicle.

Mine is also an annoyance vs. a real problem. Now the weather is warmer, I am not experiencing any steering issues. I would still buy the car.

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[handruin]

Everything you say makes sense and is very much appreciated. To clarify, I really wasn't bothered that the sales guys claimed not to know but I just felt it seemed kind of unusual.

In any event does it make a difference, at least with respect to the rack issue and not necessarily with the software issue, when the car was built? For example, if there is an S4 on the lot built 4-5 months ago vs. one built 1-2 months ago? Apologies in advance if this has already been discussed. Thanks.

I unfortunately don't have enough information to answer your question regarding the build dates correlated with the issue or even specific parts. Maybe someone else can answer you better on that topic. I know this was discussed several times throughout this thread but I wasn't able to get a clear answer myself. I do know that the few people who have had their rack replaced showed that there was a different part number for the new rack replaced. Now the question I don't have an answer for is if the S4s that are built more recently have the newer part or not. My 2013 S4 was one of the early ones built for 2013. I picked it up early July 2012. I haven't verified but I suspect I would have the original steering rack produced.

[AznSensation87]

Mine is also an annoyance vs. a real problem. Now the weather is warmer, I am not experiencing any steering issues. I would still buy the car.

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I'm also in the same boat in terms of annoyance. Hoping mine won't turn into a real problem (knock on wood) I also agree with Mrads...if I were in the position of whether or not to buy an S4, I still would. Love the S4

[Seinsmeld13]

Pardon me if I havent caught on to this yet, but does the issue present itself from the beginning of ownership, or after several thousand miles? I havent felt it yet with my S4 that I picked up this weekend, so Im surious.

i ordered mine in December, picked it up a couple weeks ago. In between, i asked my dealer if he'd heard of anything. He hadn't. He checked with the service guys. nothing. I asked him again last week during a different conversation. Nothing. he had no reason to lie to me after i'd already picked up the car, and i told him i'm confident that audi will figure it out, and even some people have found a potential vag com fix. he's never been shy about giving it to me straight, so i think it's just not as well known as we may think.

I live in an area where I have 3 Audi dealers within a 30 mile radius. Two of the three service managers said they were unaware of the problem with one making no eye contact. I was pissed. I had an area rep. take car then finally the third service manager. We went for a long ride. During that ride he admitted there were a number of complaints about this steering with no known fix. This included other Audi models. Anyway...

I'm also in the same boat in terms of annoyance. Hoping mine won't turn into a real problem (knock on wood) I also agree with Mrads...if I were in the position of whether or not to buy an S4, I still would. Love the S4

Now that this steering problem has been corrected yes thumbs up I would recommend this car. Two weeks with the then terrible steering I would not have recommended thus car.

[thedollardoctor]

Everything you say makes sense and is very much appreciated. To clarify, I really wasn't bothered that the sales guys claimed not to know but I just felt it seemed kind of unusual.

In any event does it make a difference, at least with respect to the rack issue and not necessarily with the software issue, when the car was built? For example, if there is an S4 on the lot built 4-5 months ago vs. one built 1-2 months ago? Apologies in advance if this has already been discussed. Thanks.

I think it is generally accepted that all S4s built after Oct 12' have the new steering rack part. This along with the VAG COM fix, FOR ME, has made my steering perfect! I wouldn't hesitate to buy this car knowing what I now know.

[drob23]

I posted this in the other steering thread, but has anyone solved the ABS error caused by the VAGCOM steering recommendation fix? Steering definitely felt livelier and slightly lighter on my drive to work today.

[[email protected]]

I posted this in the other steering thread, but has anyone solved the ABS error caused by the VAGCOM steering recommendation fix? Steering definitely felt livelier and slightly lighter on my drive to work today.

Not that I've seen. I've done a bit of work on it, but so far no luck. I added the ADS Lite functions since my Allroad did not come with ADS. That did not make the ABS code go away. There are several users reporting no ABS code error.

I may play with this in the coming week to see if I can't figure out what is going on. It would be interested to see full Auto-Scans from those who do NOT have the code here or through email: [email protected]

Cheers,

[afig367]

For those of us who believe the notchiness is, at least, partially related to the cold weather..... is anyone experiencing less of it now that the weather is warming up?

For me, I believe it's improved (occurs less often and is less rigid), but I don't think my data set - consisting of 1-2 weeks of warm-ish driving - is sufficient yet.

[handruin]

For those of us who believe the notchiness is, at least, partially related to the cold weather..... is anyone experiencing less of it now that the weather is warming up?

For me, I believe it's improved (occurs less often and is less rigid), but I don't think my data set - consisting of 1-2 weeks of warm-ish driving - is sufficient yet.

I mentioned a few posts up exactly this. I've noticed less of the notchiness now that it has been warmer. This may also explain why I had a higher number of miles on my car before I noticed it since I took delivery of my car in July last year.

[13S4]

Not that I've seen. I've done a bit of work on it, but so far no luck. I added the ADS Lite functions since my Allroad did not come with ADS. That did not make the ABS code go away. There are several users reporting no ABS code error.

I may play with this in the coming week to see if I can't figure out what is going on. It would be interested to see full Auto-Scans from those who do NOT have the code here or through email: [email protected]

Cheers,

I think a lots of people didn't re-scan there car after making the change. I wouldn't of noticed my ABS error code was present unless I scanned it after.

[Mrads]

For those of us who believe the notchiness is, at least, partially related to the cold weather..... is anyone experiencing less of it now that the weather is warming up?

For me, I believe it's improved (occurs less often and is less rigid), but I don't think my data set - consisting of 1-2 weeks of warm-ish driving - is sufficient yet.

As I said in post #1588. I am experiencing no issues at all since the weather is now warmer in Vancouver, BC whereas a couple of weeks ago, the steering was a daily annoyance.

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[drob23]

I think a lots of people didn't re-scan there car after making the change. I wouldn't of noticed my ABS error code was present unless I scanned it after.

Yea, good call, I'm guessing you're right. I remember I saw maybe 3 people who had similarly reported the ABS error after performing this steering code fix.

Apologies if this has already been mentioned, but does anyone with the steering code fix not have the ABS error code? Would users that have this coding mind quickly performing an auto scan, preferably for all ECU's (turn on ignition before scanning)? Thanks in advance...

[Moose201]

For those of us who believe the notchiness is, at least, partially related to the cold weather..... is anyone experiencing less of it now that the weather is warming up?

For me, I believe it's improved (occurs less often and is less rigid), but I don't think my data set - consisting of 1-2 weeks of warm-ish driving - is sufficient yet.

In my case, I began to notice the center notchiness (the slip) after the weather warmed up. My car had just hit 1400 miles and it was the first time I had ever felt the slip since taking delivery in December 2012.

[[email protected]]

I believe the ross tech site had instructions for a Golf. May still apply to our cars since the Golf had EPS first. Ive tried searching in the past for Audi specific instructions (since A3's have had EPS as well) but only found the Golf instructions.

Just an FYI for anyone who tries and G85 adaptation or tinkers with the Steering Assist module enough to reset you end stop adaptation. You need a trip the dealer or a VAS PC setup. The end stop adaptation is carried out through Guided Functions and runs a specific test plan to adapt them. Vagcom cannot do this, at least from anything I saw. Seems like more and more Vagcom and VAS are needed together, Vagcom does most jobs but Guided functions in VAS has some items that Vagcom does not.

Terrible thing is, with the end stops not adapted the assist is at 60% of normal and the steering was actually nicer without the full assist...

Cheers,

[thedollardoctor]

I have not yet run a full scan to see if I have the ABS error, will do once I have my car back together. Doing some custom work on it now so it's not doable. Next week I should have it back together...

[spl1011]

I think a lots of people didn't re-scan there car after making the change. I wouldn't of noticed my ABS error code was present unless I scanned it after.

I did a scan and never logged a fault.
I've had it checked and unchecked several times over the past two weeks - never flagged a fault.

I have an allroad btw, but other members have had those flag faults as well.