Steering Issues - 2013

**kooltechie** · 01-25-2013 05:44 PM

Originally Posted by spl1011

So I had an interesting conversation with my SM today.
I have another appt on monday to have another rack installed. Ive delayed it already and am still on the fence about it.
In our chat I asked if there were any new TSB's, any new parts in the pipeline, etc... nope. Nothing new.
He did share that the TSM did find something interesting when they would shut down and restart the car. If you recall from my posts (and sorry if I am in the wrong site/forum) but I noticed that stopping, removing the key, and restarting my car would solve my notchiness problem. So the tech did that and said he noticed something different in the data between starts.
Granted, on the paperwork its noted that they could not duplicate the problem.

So, not sure if I want to deal with the hassle of dropping my car off to get another rack installed. What do you guys think?
Mind you they have already nicked the steering wheel and did 2 alignments and my wheel is still crooked.

I can only imagine the frustration and madness you've been going through.
I wouldn't know what to do either if I were in your situation....damn the incompetent dealer

I'm going to wait one more week to hopefully hear something from Audi and, if they don't update us with any info on the issue/fix, I'm going to submit a complaint via NHTSA and seek legal actions

**BzzzBom** · 01-25-2013 05:56 PM

Until AOA has a TSB stating that the cause of the steering issue is a faulty steering rack and have an updated version, I wouldn't let them replace the steering rack. I wouldn't want run the to risk of collateral damage to my car while Audi is doing trial and error experimentation. I am not a mechanic but after reading all of the posts it seems likely that this is a software or sensor issue.

**spl1011** · 01-25-2013 06:13 PM

I postponed it for another two weeks. I would really like to see what kind of momentum this takes and what the trending solution is. Right now its liveable since I can turn the wheel lock-to-lock or turn it off and on and be on my way. I do it at the first sign of symptoms in order to stay safe.
I just couldnt bear leaving it at the dealer again...
My SM said that the TSM told him I was the first in the country to have the rack go bad again. I know based on other forums that this is no longer true.
I would like to wait to see when others get theirs replaced. Also, this will help my odds in getting a more recent part, thus less likely to fail since the part to be installed was ordered 3 weeks ago.

Oh, and the part that was slated for my car will go instead into a dealer-owned loaner allroad. :-P

Ive been dealing with this since late November. The NHTSA doesn't need another week to be notified in my book.

**spl1011** · 01-25-2013 06:27 PM

Originally Posted by BzzzBom

Until AOA has a TSB stating that the cause of the steering issue is a faulty steering rack and have an updated version, I wouldn't let them replace the steering rack. I wouldn't want run the to risk of collateral damage to my car while Audi is doing trial and error experimentation. I am not a mechanic but after reading all of the posts it seems likely that this is a software or sensor issue.

Im an aerospace engineer and design flight control systems. These kinds of troubleshooting problems are what make my job exciting and challenging. I would loooove to get my hands on a technical manual for my allroad and get down into the circuits themselves, collect data, analyze, model... the works. But I am at the mercy of other folks needing to do the work for me.
Im sure Audi is hoping it is a software fix because that is the cheapest and simplest. (And I do too!)
Again, I am not familiar with the audi setup, but I saw a tesla model S steering rack and all of it - sensors, rack and pinion, motor - was mounted on the rack assembly. I am going to get underneath my car this weekend and get more familiar with it.

And Im happy to see that this problem is happening globally and to many more 2013 cars as this will definitely cost Audi more if not addressed than it is to let it go until our warranties run out.

**Steamer** · 01-25-2013 06:53 PM

Thought I was losing my mind until I read this thread! I'd felt the "floaty" steering a few times over the past few weeks.

Was driving home from Raleigh tonight in the wintery mess with my wife (she was at the wheel), when she said,"The wind is really blowing hard, the car keeps getting pushed all around...this is not me"! It was so dark we couldn't see the trees, so I checked a weather app. Winds were 5mph or less. Steering was "grabbing" and then "dead spots" would appear according to her. We were driving 45mph, Comfort Mode, and temps were in the high 20s.

Please add me to the affected list.

**Gotchaa** · 01-25-2013 07:06 PM

Originally Posted by visualguy

Some folks who aren't experiencing the issue yet may experience it in the future... It seems that it doesn't always show up right away when the car is new.

I would like to see the OP update the first post with a description of the issue, what specifically to test for, and what "notchiness" means when staring at 12 o'clock. It may be that some have it but don't know it or think its a feature ;)

**Gotchaa** · 01-25-2013 07:11 PM

Originally Posted by stactum

+1

Completely agree with you. Couple of days ago while entering the highway I passed truck and quickly changed lines to the left to move in between 2 trucks and while doing that almost shit my pants (excuse my french) since felt NO STEERING whatsoever I felt like I am on the boat.

I do believe we need to do something as a group - send a petition to Audi or do something but I just can't drive like that. And I agree with posters here, some days issue is more pronounced than others - like this morning I haven't felt it that much, but sometimes it's just plain annoying.

Funny thing is that everyone says getting the Alu Kreuz was one of the main drivers to get around the floatiness of the steering, it's hard to know if everyone is experiencing the same exact thing without some clear test scenarios or definitions of terms being used to describe the problem...

**Gotchaa** · 01-25-2013 07:13 PM

Originally Posted by Killaapp

guys, I have a 2011 B8 S4 and I have been experiencing this EXACT problem for the last ~year. Was told it was due to the car being out of alignment but I've had it realigned 3 times and of course it still persists. Only happens when I'm actively pressing the gas pedal on the highway... does my B8 have the same steering hardware as the B8.5?

...and the steering in this car is not electric correct?

**spl1011** · 01-25-2013 07:16 PM

the notchy problem I describe is like trying to drive using your MMI scroll wheel (without the audible clicks). I cant leave it positioned on a "high spot" without A LOT of effort and causes me to easily overcorrect.

Alu Kreuz will do nothing for this. (although I bet it is a great product and would like to try one once all of the dust settles and I still have an Audi)

**Stereodude** · 01-25-2013 07:22 PM

Originally Posted by Gotchaa

Funny thing is that everyone says getting the Alu Kreuz was one of the main drivers to get around the floatiness of the steering, it's hard to know if everyone is experiencing the same exact thing without some clear test scenarios or definitions of terms being used to describe the problem...

I don't know about floaty steering. I know about a "notch" / dead spot in the middle of the wheel. Dead meaning there's no power steering. So, you have to muscle the wheel a bit to get it to move and then all of a sudden the power steering grabs the wheel and tugs it further than where I as intending to move it. You're also screwed if you need to hold the steering wheel right at the point where the power steering decides to activate. It's pretty much not possible.

**handruin** · 01-25-2013 07:23 PM

Originally Posted by Stereodude

I don't know about floaty steering. I know about a "notch" / dead spot in the middle of the wheel. Dead meaning there's no power steering. So, you have to muscle the wheel a bit to get it to move and then all of a sudden the power steering grabs the wheel and tugs it further than where I as intending to move it.

Mine is the inverse of what you just described. The dead spot is floaty and light in feeling unlike what yours. Interesting.

**Stereodude** · 01-25-2013 07:34 PM

Originally Posted by handruin

Mine is the inverse of what you just described. The dead spot is floaty and light in feeling unlike what yours. Interesting.

Well, there is a very narrow spot in the center where the wheel moves easily and doesn't really have any real effect before you get to the hard to turn position / bump you have to overcome on either side. I don't know that I'd call it floaty though.

**visualguy** · 01-25-2013 07:48 PM

Pretty frightening stuff... Mine is still perfectly fine and smooth, but maybe it's a time bomb.

Does anyone know what parts they have to remove to gain access for replacing the steering rack? How much of the car do they need to dismantle for this job?

**Thomas@TAI-VW** · 01-25-2013 07:59 PM

I hate to say this again, but AUDI=DUBIOUS ELECTRONICS

**thedollardoctor** · 01-25-2013 09:16 PM

Originally Posted by Stereodude

Well, there is a very narrow spot in the center where the wheel moves easily and doesn't really have any real effect before you get to the hard to turn position / bump you have to overcome on either side. I don't know that I'd call it floaty though.

I like to explain it as a "slip" in the steering wheel when crossing 12 o'clock. It's like it's holding fine, then all of a sudden it "slips" and then grabs again and then you correct it and it does it again.

I have also experienced something slightly different that feels like "notchy" steering, and this happens at any speed, in any mode and at any wheel position, while making a long turn, etx.

I'm actually starting to think they are two different things completely. One (the slipping) feels electronic, like a sensor fail, the other (the notchiness) feels more mechanical.

Anyway, I'm getting my rack swapped next Friday, and we'll see how it goes. So far as I know bclippard's issues are gone now that his rack is replaced. But like I said, could be multiple issues......

**kooltechie** · 01-25-2013 09:17 PM

Originally Posted by handruin

Mine is the inverse of what you just described. The dead spot is floaty and light in feeling unlike what yours. Interesting.

+1

**Gotchaa** · 01-25-2013 10:35 PM

Keep the descriptions coming if you are experiencing something other than what has been posted and described, sounds like there are various symptoms that may be the same or different issues...this could be why some are fixed with a Mechanical change, and others with software updates or resets....probably why Audi is having a hard time figuring it out..

**JFrA5** · 01-26-2013 09:02 AM

Add me to the notchy steering wheel list. New 2013 A5. Car has 2700 miles but problem started about 1,000 miles ago. Very intermittent issue however it is really bad when it is prevalent. No patterns that I can determine as to when the problem is present but it seems like it occurs on very cold days. This is my first post but I have been a long time lurker. This issue prompted me to sign up to this site. My car goes to the dealer on Monday but based on my previous experiences with them, I'm not confident this issue will be addressed or resolved to my satisfaction. Seems like Audi is dropping the ball on this one. I know I would not authorize a rack replacement until I was 100% sure that is the fix, but respect those of you that are proceeding. Might be some lemon laws explored on this one!!!

**kooltechie** · 01-26-2013 10:23 AM

Originally Posted by JFrA5

Add me to the notchy steering wheel list. New 2013 A5. Car has 2700 miles but problem started about 1,000 miles ago. Very intermittent issue however it is really bad when it is prevalent. No patterns that I can determine as to when the problem is present but it seems like it occurs on very cold days. This is my first post but I have been a long time lurker. This issue prompted me to sign up to this site. My car goes to the dealer on Monday but based on my previous experiences with them, I'm not confident this issue will be addressed or resolved to my satisfaction. Seems like Audi is dropping the ball on this one. I know I would not authorize a rack replacement until I was 100% sure that is the fix, but respect those of you that are proceeding. Might be some lemon laws explored on this one!!!

Added.
Thx!

**mrrun2fast** · 01-26-2013 10:45 AM

Looks like this is happening across model lines.

Add mine to the list. I have a 2013 Q5 2.0T. Build date is July 2012. I currently have 6K miles and the issue started at 5K miles. I bought the car in October.

The steering is unbelievable. Going straight on a highway, I can feel it shifting and floating. I constantly have to correct it. Going around a curve is even scarier at speeds of +60mph due the shifting. The steering is very imprecise and unpredictable. I really hope there is a permanent fix to this.

I haven't been to the the dealership yet due to work, but I look forward to hearing more updates from you guys. Thanks!

**kwong26** · 01-26-2013 10:49 AM

Taking my car in for the 5K mile/8K km service and have noted the same notchiness/spongy feeling at the top of the steering 12 o'clock for them to look into among other things (like grinding sensation when the DSG gears down during a rolling stop) and kind of feels like it won't seat properly when trying to steer. Like it's a degree or two off on either end and just won't stay in the middle.

You can add me to the affected list. Hopefully it happens when I bring it to them cause I've noticed that it's not a regular occurrence.

**Stereodude** · 01-26-2013 12:41 PM

Originally Posted by thedollardoctor

I have also experienced something slightly different that feels like "notchy" steering, and this happens at any speed, in any mode and at any wheel position, while making a long turn, etx.

I've experienced this as well. Turning the wheel isn't smooth, but grabby as you rotate it (it can be at any angle). It's most obvious when turning the wheel lock to lock reasonably quickly while the car is stopped. I've only noticed this other behavior when the "notch" in the center is also flaring up very badly.

**Stereodude** · 01-26-2013 12:46 PM

Originally Posted by Gotchaa

Keep the descriptions coming if you are experiencing something other than what has been posted and described, sounds like there are various symptoms that may be the same or different issues...this could be why some are fixed with a Mechanical change, and others with software updates or resets....probably why Audi is having a hard time figuring it out..

I think they're the same issue. The people with the floaty wheel in the center are getting too much assist in the center when it should be minimal (or off). The people with the notch or slip in the center aren't getting any assist when they turn it out of the center then it kicks in late and grabs. One would be when it calibrates itself too small (or no) dead zone in the middle. The other happens when the dead zone in the middle is calibrated too large.

**thirddecay** · 01-26-2013 01:27 PM

theres definately more than one symptom here, possibly 3 from what ive been reading. i have experienced two completely different types of problems with my steering so far. both occur at the 12 position on the wheel and never both at once if im remembering correctly.

one would be the notchy feeling. where it feels like clicks left and right around 12. it seems to come and go randomly as i drive.

the second would be a dead, resistance type spot directly at 12. you can feel a bump in the wheel as it floats left and right across 12. when this happens its impossible to drive straight and you have to constantly correct back and forth across this resistance point. again, comes and goes though this one always lasts until the car is turned off and clears up once its sat a while and turned back on.

the third one, which i havent had happen, sounds like a grabby type feeling when the wheel is turned where it feels like the power steering is coming on and off forcing over correction when holding a lane. lots of people are reporting this in posts above and ive directly taken note of it because its very different sounding from what ive experienced. my car had the sensor software update as soon as i started having problems so it may be related to that.

as an update from my previous post...

about a week ago i took the car by the dealership and had the shop foreman come for a drive with me. we were unable to reproduce the problem on our short drive. was left with the option of leaving the car with him for a week (and taking a base a3 loaner yay!) or just returning to the dealer when i was having the problem. generally one of the above problems happens every couple of days and since i live about 10 minutes away i decided to keep the car and just return while the problem was happening. after a week now the steering has been totally fine during a very cold week here in toronto so im kind of running out of ideas. this has been the longest good driving streak ive had in the last 3-4 months.

edit: it should be noted that while i was there they didnt do anything to the car. it didnt even enter the shop. pretty frustrating.

also forgot to mention. this was the 2nd time ive had them look at this. the first, a week earlier, was during my first oil change where they did an alignment which changed nothing. problem happened again the same day.

**kooltechie** · 01-26-2013 02:45 PM

mrrun2fast, kwong26 added to the list.
28 owners w/ steering issue, and 10 without

Thx!

**thedollardoctor** · 01-26-2013 05:50 PM

Originally Posted by mrrun2fast

Looks like this is happening across model lines.

Add mine to the list. I have a 2013 Q5 2.0T. Build date is July 2012. I currently have 6K miles and the issue started at 5K miles. I bought the car in October.

The steering is unbelievable. Going straight on a highway, I can feel it shifting and floating. I constantly have to correct it. Going around a curve is even scarier at speeds of +60mph due the shifting. The steering is very imprecise and unpredictable. I really hope there is a permanent fix to this.

I haven't been to the the dealership yet due to work, but I look forward to hearing more updates from you guys. Thanks!

Bummer man, sorry you're having this issue with your Q5 as well! I got a 2013 A4 loaner last time my car went in for this issue and it had the SAME issue even worse than my S4! Then I traded that for a 2013 Q5 and it was PERFECT! So at least I can confirm that if the electric steering is operating correctly, it's actually really solid and confidence inspiring.

The more I think about this, the more I believe there are multiple issues here, two for sure (I've personally experienced two different issues), possibly three.

The notchy steering issue I've had has been at every speed, in every mode, and happens at any steering position and angle. The "slipping" sensation where the steering seems to "over power boost" and the wheel just slips and then grabs again, only seems to happen at higher speeds, and only across 12 o'clock in the steering. These are two DISTINCTLY different feelings and issues in my opinion. I could see and rack fixing the notchy issue, but I think the "slip" is a faulty sensor.

Ugh, this is all very frustrating. I for one can promise all of you that if my new rack this Friday, doesn't fix my issues, I'll happily take the lead on filing the appropriate papers with the safety groups needed to push this issue further with Audi

**Vandalrg** · 01-26-2013 06:06 PM

Originally Posted by guestlinger

I read the following on the S5 forum. Does it help the S4 guys here with this problem:

Kris on another forum is at the beginning of a test run with a new allroad and in another thread says he's experiencing the same issue.

He said he's doing a "lock to lock" steering wheel turn when he first starts up the test car and that seems to help a lot.

I've tried this for two days now and I'll be damned.... it does appear to work on significantly minimizing (almost completely disappearing) the notchiness.

That said... we shouldn't have to turn the steering wheel lock to lock every time we start the car.... but until a fix is found... this is making the car much more liveable.

That's interesting. I've been following this thread on and off because I have a B8.5 that was built in June 2012, but haven't experienced the issue in my car. Sometimes steering is a bit vague on the highway when the steering wheel is TDC, but I just figured it was the shitty roads up here in New England.

I park in a parking garage in a corner spot that's tight to get out of, so every morning I back up, turn the wheel all the way to the right to squeeze out, then I have to turn it all the way back to the left to pull 180 degrees around a tight turn. This all happens in the first 30 feet of driving. I also always drive in individual mode, with steering set to dynamic (no ADS) so I'm wondering if maybe I do have this issue, but it's not very noticeable due to the fact that I'm forced to swing the wheels lock to lock every morning.

Edited to add I have 8k miles on the car.

**Henkka82** · 01-26-2013 10:20 PM

First? From Europe, you can add me on list.
I have A4 2013 made 9/2012
I have notchy, and sometimes dead feeling....

We have here in Finland also Audi forum where we try to find out what is going on....
I will let you know if someone will get news...

**Surfdoc37** · 01-27-2013 06:48 AM

Originally Posted by Moose201

Surfdoc37, how many miles on your car?

Shade over 3000. Seemed to be getting more severe and frequent.

Add me to the "has" list too, guys.

**nightfury22** · 01-27-2013 07:25 AM

Subscribed.

**mrrun2fast** · 01-27-2013 08:57 AM

Remarkable how many are having this issue. I wonder if Audi reads these message boards to understand consumer issues. I emailed a link of this thread to Audi USA for a response. Interested to see how they respond.

**JFrA5** · 01-27-2013 09:24 AM

I have posted some comments on Audi USA's official Facebook page about this issue. I would encourage you all to do the same. The fact that potentially 6 million people who like their page can read about these steering issues which may negatively impact future sales, will hopefully light a fire under someone to work towards a resolution or at a minimum acknowledge that there is a problem!!!

**jackal15** · 01-27-2013 10:07 AM

B8.5 owner with 3000 miles. I'm having the same notchy/deadspot feeling at 12 o'clock. Hasn't been so severe that i'm concerned about safety but I will have them take a look during my 5K. Hopefully there will be a fix by then!

**spl1011** · 01-27-2013 11:50 AM

i would also recommend this: https://www-odi.nhtsa.dot.gov/ivoq/

**kooltechie** · 01-27-2013 12:38 PM

unit, Henkka82, Surfdoc37, jackal15 added to the list.
32 owners w/ issue and 10 without....3 out of 4 owners of B8.5 models are affected by the issue, at least from AZ, thus far.

Thx!

**Doc Brown** · 01-27-2013 01:17 PM

I have not noticed the problem yet - nearly 4000 miles. 2013 S4, adaptive steering, build in Sept/Oct '12

I had one instance of slowing abruptly from about 40mph to make a right turn onto a side street and when turning the wheel got VERY heavy and I needed both hands to muscle it through for the first few degrees of rotation and then suddenly it "gave". It felt at first like I lost all power assist and then it came back. Other than that - no floatiness. No wander. No notchiness. I have a 100 mile drive tomorrow to one of our remote offices. We will see what happens then. It is an Audi. I have had them before and despite my attraction to them, they have reliability and quirkiness "issues", at best. I have found that if you get good one, you may be lucky. I have also found if you get a bad one, the field mechanics never seem to be able to make it right.

Interesting observation above about the turn lock to lock. The way my car is parked at home, I pretty much do lock to lock in the process of getting the car out. And when I work I back in (paranoid New Yorker at heart - I never know when I may need to make a speedy getaway). I park the car with the front wheel turned to lock (whichever side I think it more susceptible to someone backing out near me and tagging the car - in essence putting the wheel out to block the hopefully light tap rather than the fender take it. Often that requires a turn near to opposite lock to exit the lot.

**engineer29** · 01-27-2013 06:02 PM

I had the steering rack replaced last Friday by my local dealer. Only have 100 miles on the new rack, but no sign of any further steering problems. I originally had the 12 o'clock problem and the notchy steering as well. I will put a couple 1000 on and let everyone know what happens.

BTW: 2013 A4

**visualguy** · 01-27-2013 07:07 PM

Originally Posted by engineer29

I had the steering rack replaced last Friday by my local dealer. Only have 100 miles on the new rack, but no sign of any further steering problems. I originally had the 12 o'clock problem and the notchy steering as well. I will put a couple 1000 on and let everyone know what happens.

BTW: 2013 A4

Thanks. What was the mileage on your car when you first noticed the problem?

**BzzzBom** · 01-27-2013 08:16 PM

Originally Posted by engineer29

I had the steering rack replaced last Friday by my local dealer. Only have 100 miles on the new rack, but no sign of any further steering problems. I originally had the 12 o'clock problem and the notchy steering as well. I will put a couple 1000 on and let everyone know what happens.

BTW: 2013 A4

What did the dealership say was the cause of the steering problem? Did they replace the old rack with an updated or new version? If so, what is the part number? I hope the steering rack replacement resolves the issue.

**mrrun2fast** · 01-28-2013 06:47 AM

I dropped my Q5 at the dealership this morning. They gave me a '13 A4 2.0T loaner and the steering on it is a lot better than mine. I talked to the service manager and he said he hasn't had any other customers complain about this issue, but he heard that the Q5 3.0T has had notchy issues.