B8 A4 2.0 TFSI DIY: Carbon Intake Valve Cleaning

[DJ_AudiA4]

yeah i went to the dealer and got the kit one of the technicians was cool enough to give me an idea of how to install the new kit. My Valve cleaning was definitely a success and i think with a couple other tools it will go much smoother next time.

[StigThe]

Hi,

First post here,
but have been reading this forum daily ever since I bought my second hand Audi A4 2.0t flexifuel 2010.

Anyway, decided to perform the carbon cleanup procedure this weekend,
but soon detected that my manifold and plumbing is quite different compared to Dan's 2009.

Mine looks like this:




I also just realized that both the manifold and pcv lining look close to identical to the 2013 engine, see picture to the right:
(Borrowed from the '2013 vs 2009' thread (http://www.audizine.com/forum/showth...=1#post7836769)




I wonder, do I have the original 2010 flexifuel manifold/pcv or must it have been updated at the workshop??

Also, since it looks like on the 2013+ engine where the carbon buildup problems are supposed to be fixed,
I ask for your opinions whether it is still worth the effort to take off the manifold and take a look?

I don't experience any problems with the engine, and the motive for doing the cleaning in the first place was purely precautionary.

[MaXaZoR]

Pictures from first post are down...Can we get them re-posted.

[boomtime]

Pictures from first post are down...Can we get them re-posted.

It looks like it might be temporary if they bricked his account for bandwidth usage...
Hopefully the pics will come back if the usage drops over time or he upgrades his account.
In the meantime keep checking back to see if they load!

[zokissima]

Anyone saved this thread with the pics?

[SDF1]

Pictures all load here.

[zokissima]

Additionally, anyone have part numbers for all the gaskets we can (if we so chose to) change while performing this service?

[SDF1]

http://www.ecstuning.com/Audi-B8_A4-....0T/ES2158320/
Includes all the gaskets

[zokissima]

Hmm, interesting. I read through the whole thread, and it was mentioned that most people use their old intake manifold, and if anything just replace the gaskets. Is there a danger of cracking the manifold when removing it?

[Ryan_T]

It's a pretty thick wall of plastic, should be fine.

[zokissima]

That's what I assumed as well. I just wanted to replace all of the gaskets, the ones on the manifold, and around the injectors as well.

[boomtime]

Anyone saved this thread with the pics?

I just printed page 1 to xps doc writer as a backup but its 46MB for first page with the pics.

[zokissima]

Select it all, then copy it into Word. Resize the pics there. THe whole document will be your stated size, or a little bit less. I just did the same as a backup.

EDIT: soooo, anyone ended up replacing any gaskets at all on the intake manifold?

[A4BGP]

If you're anal, get this:
http://www.ecstuning.com/Audi-B8_A4-...uel/ES2588762/

Otherwise these are really all you need.
http://www.ecstuning.com/Audi-B8_A4-...uel/ES2132437/

But really, I've seen it done without replacing anything at all and all is still fine...

[zokissima]

Thank you kindly sir! Yes, I am anal, and thank you for recognizing!

[typ44q]

First I want to thank Dan for this excellent write up!

I was looking at the records for my car and I see that the dealer performed a "intake cleaning" under the previous owner at 35K miles, I just bought it as CPO with 37K miles. Does anyone know how thorough the dealers are when doing a cleaning? or what they actually do during the cleaning?

If they did a decent job I will not worry about it for a while, If not I might want to perform this in the near future.

[Ragana]

Have an oil consumption issue so I figured I'd try this since nothing else worked. Posting to bookmark.

[ihorc]

Recently I attempted to perform carbon cleaning according to diy... During back assembly I noticed the metal o ring
http://c1552172.r72.cf0.rackcdn.com/460341_x800.jpg (the one that is inside black plastic piece is missing... maybe fell down the engine...maybe down intake) is missing. After searching for it I decided to fit fuel injector back without it. After staring the car hard knocking sound followed. After few more starts stops sound didn't disappear and occasional misfires occurred. So after taking the intake manifold out again, I was unable to pull out the fuel injector (the one with missing metal ring). My questions are following: what are the chances that cylinder head hit the injector and created mechanical lock? Anyone have any ideas what to do or how to take it out?
p.s. i already realized that I am an idiot and shouldn't have done that, so no more assurance is needed.

[Warren S]

^oh damn! How about getting a borescope through the spark plug hole to find that missing metal o-ring and to inspect inside the cylinder for damage? This will give you a definitive answer by viewing what's inside the cylinder. If you're lucky, you may be able to fish it out with a magnet, a small enough magnet that would fit through the spark plug hole and bend/flex side to side (or glue a piece of magnet on a wire coat hanger?). The alternative of pulling the head or taking it to the dealer would be a very labor intensive and/or very expensive option. Sorry to hear about your dilemma.

[boomtime]

^what he said.
Now there is a foreign body inside cylinder hopefully its not too bad but worst case is damage to walls, bent valve, bent rod.
Easiest way is to use a vacuum to try and suck it out of the bore or a magnet if its steel. If its aluminum then vacuum or pull the head are the only two ways.

You can do a leakdown test afterwards to see if you have bent valves or damaged walls (rings).
Depending whats wrong you will have air coming from exhaust or intake or crankcase (pcv).

[The Infiltrator]

Did this cleaning last weekend took me a few hours longer but that's because I was in a rush putting back together, first I forgot the flaps after I connected everything back, so had to take it all apart again, then the second time I forgot to put one of the injector spacers that fell of when took the manifold of the first time, but all in all it went great car definitely feels smoother now. Here are some pics, of before was to pissed to take the after...

Wow, that's insane how much crap builds up in these cars!!

[The Infiltrator]

Is there and valve cleaner that would help clean this out? I'm at 30k and I have a 2010 but I'm not sure if I want to do this yet.

[ihorc]

After checking for the washer and any damage inside the cylinder chamber (used camera and magnet and vacuum) no damage, nor washer ring were found. So, I think that somewhat good news. After I aseembled the car back, started it ran smooth and nice. After I restarted the car, hard knocking, constant noise appeared (which increases with higher revs), also occasional misfires were recorded.
I made a quick video, showing the nosie, hopefully someone can have some ideas.
Thank you.

[ihorc]

Alternative link for the video http://vk.com/video16633500_170815551
Also, no codes were recorded except misfires (not recently)

[asfastas63]

Just wanted to chime in and say thanks for this DIY, it was a huge help. I started having misfires on idle during cold starts only and started by replacing my coilpacks with the updated red/R8 ones. Car ran better and saw fewer misfires, but still would flash the misfire CEL (sometimes staying, sometimes not) so I decided to give this a shot. Car had 70k miles and I know it had never been done. I didn't take any after shots but here were my before pics.









Takeaways: Not only have I not seen any more misfires, but my car used to shake and buck like a bronco for the first 20-30 seconds of startup like so many others I've seen here, and after performing the cleaning it is completely GONE. Smooth as silk on completely cold starts which it hasn't ever done since I bought it at 55k. My advice for actually performing the service...

- Get lots and lots of lighting, it's going to be a pain to see in and make sure you're doing a good job, I used a combo of spotlights angled down from behind me and a droplight to hold while I scraped.
- Take your belt off so you don't scratch the paint as you're leaning into the engine compartment.
- I would try carb cleaner first since it's so much cheaper than the BG cleaner. I've read elsewhere (after ordering the BG ISC) that others have had success with it and wish I tried that first. You'd have to commit to the car being down for a few days though if the carb cleaner wasn't doing the trick.
- When you start, try picking/scraping as much off as you can before soaking. I did this on the 4th valve after turning the engine over and I only had to do 3 soak cycles instead of 5 to get it to look like the others. You'll be able to get a ton of crap out and it'll be nice and stuck together before it gets broken down.
- Get a shop vac and use in conjunction with a backwards funnel to suck out the stuff from each valve as you break it up.
- I got the full induction seal kit posted above and used everything except the white fuel injector seals. Those you need a special tool to put on. The fuel injectors take a really good yank to get out and I'm glad I replaced the blue o-rings. To get them back in I actually put a dab of spit on my thumb to wet the o-ring and push it back in. They were not going back in completely dry.

[The Infiltrator]

Just wanted to chime in and say thanks for this DIY, it was a huge help. I started having misfires on idle during cold starts only and started by replacing my coilpacks with the updated red/R8 ones. Car ran better and saw fewer misfires, but still would flash the misfire CEL (sometimes staying, sometimes not) so I decided to give this a shot. Car had 70k miles and I know it had never been done. I didn't take any after shots but here were my before pics.









Takeaways: Not only have I not seen any more misfires, but my car used to shake and buck like a bronco for the first 20-30 seconds of startup like so many others I've seen here, and after performing the cleaning it is completely GONE. Smooth as silk on completely cold starts which it hasn't ever done since I bought it at 55k. My advice for actually performing the service...

- Get lots and lots of lighting, it's going to be a pain to see in and make sure you're doing a good job, I used a combo of spotlights angled down from behind me and a droplight to hold while I scraped.
- Take your belt off so you don't scratch the paint as you're leaning into the engine compartment.
- I would try carb cleaner first since it's so much cheaper than the BG cleaner. I've read elsewhere (after ordering the BG ISC) that others have had success with it and wish I tried that first. You'd have to commit to the car being down for a few days though if the carb cleaner wasn't doing the trick.
- When you start, try picking/scraping as much off as you can before soaking. I did this on the 4th valve after turning the engine over and I only had to do 3 soak cycles instead of 5 to get it to look like the others. You'll be able to get a ton of crap out and it'll be nice and stuck together before it gets broken down.
- Get a shop vac and use in conjunction with a backwards funnel to suck out the stuff from each valve as you break it up.
- I got the full induction seal kit posted above and used everything except the white fuel injector seals. Those you need a special tool to put on. The fuel injectors take a really good yank to get out and I'm glad I replaced the blue o-rings. To get them back in I actually put a dab of spit on my thumb to wet the o-ring and push it back in. They were not going back in completely dry.

That's funny because mine does that sometimes. Starts up and sputters once in a while and when I'm driving and don't shift down, I press the gas it bogs down and goes back and forth. I'm sure mine is pretty full of crap.

[asfastas63]

That's funny because mine does that sometimes. Starts up and sputters once in a while and when I'm driving and don't shift down, I press the gas it bogs down and goes back and forth. I'm sure mine is pretty full of crap.

Mine used to do exactly that, when at lower RPM's and stomping on the pedal it would almost kick a few times until it got to the higher RPM's before pulling cleanly. I don't have that at all anymore, the power band / throttle response is much cleaner. I don't think there is any MORE power per say, but it comes on much cleaner than before.

[The Infiltrator]

I'm just not sure if I want to tear the thing apart. I'm sure some cleaner that you put in your gas tank wouldn't do much.

[rufflez]

I'm just not sure if I want to tear the thing apart. I'm sure some cleaner that you put in your gas tank wouldn't do much.

Take a look at some of the pictures above and you'll see exactly why fuel cleaners won't work. You'll notice the fuel injector is inside the combustion chamber, while the carbon build up is outside the chamber. Thinking about tackling this project very soon as my car bogs on the lower RPM range... was starting to think my clutch was bad... but was pretty sure it isn't (I do almost all highway driving where shifting is rare).

[The Infiltrator]

Yeah I think I'll end up doing it but I want to wait on a new intake manifold. I found this one but it's not in production yet.

http://www.audizine.com/forum/showth...2#post10230452

[Shimmy]

this is a fantastic write up, but has anyone tried walnut shell blasting?

[gundal.chung]

audi engines and their carbon buildup... jeeeze
I think the only thing that would probably help alleviate the carbon build up is to be more vigilant about oil changes and using quality oils, gas, and possibly having a catch can installed to collect all the blow-by and to drain the catch can every few weeks or so... I am kind of curious as to how my engine looks in regards to carbon buildup.

[Shimmy]

not just audi engines.... bmws have this problem, possibly even worse on their 335i.

audi engines and their carbon buildup... jeeeze
I think the only thing that would probably help alleviate the carbon build up is to be more vigilant about oil changes and using quality oils, gas, and possibly having a catch can installed to collect all the blow-by and to drain the catch can every few weeks or so... I am kind of curious as to how my engine looks in regards to carbon buildup.

[boomtime]

audi engines and their carbon buildup... jeeeze
I think the only thing that would probably help alleviate the carbon build up is to be more vigilant about oil changes and using quality oils, gas, and possibly having a catch can installed to collect all the blow-by and to drain the catch can every few weeks or so... I am kind of curious as to how my engine looks in regards to carbon buildup.

You better be using premium 91+ anyway otherwise you will kill the plugs.
As for the carbon buildup...its normal because the intake valves are not being washed by the fuel injectors, which is one reason modern pump gasoline contains detergents and additives.
If you ran a tank-fed cleaner regularly thru the system it may help, probably more so on the B8.5 2.0TFSI with 5th injector in the plenum. We could also assume that having ran e85 since day one would result in significantly less buildup but that would be hard to test.

[rufflez]

Thanks Dan. Did this today after almost 61k miles on my car. I found it easier to remove the throttle body to get to the bolts underneath the intake. After clearing my CEL, seems to run great. Going to take the car out for a longer spin after I shower... Definitely a messy job.

[Dzhedaj]

Great writeup, will embark on this job soon, as it seems the last time the intake valves were cleaned was 60k km ago, when the stage2 oil consumption repair was carried out.

A question on the solvents to use - can't get BG or any similar products in Europe (seems the main component is a highly cancerous solvent forbidden here). I assume carb cleaner works just as well?

Is the engine head made of some aluminium alloy? Fireplace cleaners dissolve any carbon deposits super effectively, but they contain mostly potassium hydroxide which is a strong base (pH 12-13), so that would corrode the intake channels, right?

[Demringstho864]

im about to try this. I have 96K and the previous owner didn't do anything to this car. so im going thru and taking care of everything. would carb cleaner be a good thing to use, obviously lots of towels, any specials tools I will need. I ordered new coils and plugs just because its not going to hurt. any help at all will be awesome. I have basic tools, sockets torxs bits, ect. but is there any audi specific tools needed ?

[mr_milo]

im about to try this. I have 96K and the previous owner didn't do anything to this car. so im going thru and taking care of everything. would carb cleaner be a good thing to use, obviously lots of towels, any specials tools I will need. I ordered new coils and plugs just because its not going to hurt. any help at all will be awesome. I have basic tools, sockets torxs bits, ect. but is there any audi specific tools needed ?

Did you even read the first post? Seems to cover it all VERY WELL.

[Elliott]

this is a fantastic write up, but has anyone tried walnut shell blasting?

Walnut blasting should work well. I think there is a writeup on one of the BMW forums where someone used exactly that and cleaned up quite nicely.

[Fburg A4]

Ahhhh