Deciding between All Seasons and Performance winters for a second set of tires

[rs4dreams]

I live in Seattle. If I didn't go skiing every weekend, the choice to go for all-season tires during winter would be easy. We get on average 1 snow storm a year (usually just a few inches) and it's gone after a couple days. Nothing all-seasons can't handle. For going up to the mountains, there is often some snow on the ground, though usually it is fairly well plowed. For the past 13 years, I've gone up skiing in all-season tires in AWD cars. Oftentimes, it will feel quite slippery but it's never been a problem.

I'm debating between either high-performance all-seasons (Bridgestone RE970AS or Michelin A/S plus) or high-performance winters (Michelin PA4).

I know that the difference on snow will be noticeable. The question is, will I notice much less performance from the winters in the dry and in the wet? We rarely get tempreratures below the 20's (F) so A/S tires hardening shouldn't be an issue and wet performance is very important since this is Seattle winter we're talking about.

[dparm]

Dude we are literally discussing this on the thread right below yours:

http://www.audizine.com/forum/showth...Winter-set-ups

[rs4dreams]

I was reading that thread but wanted to address the specific question of performance winters vs performance A/S in mostly non-snow conditions.

[dawei213]

The question is how hard do you normally push your car? If it's some spirited driving every once in a while but nothing too crazy, then I would say all season would be fine. If you're planning to autocross, head to the track, or really push your car to the limit on a daily basis, then performance tires will be a much better choice. And how often do you drive per year and how often would you like to get new tires? Most summers will last half as long as all-seasons.

[rs4dreams]

Sorry if I was unclear, I plan on having summers in the summer. This discussion is for my second set.

[dawei213]

Sorry if I was unclear, I plan on having summers in the summer. This discussion is for my second set.

No, sorry, my fault. I stopped at high performance and didn't continue reading. If you never had an issue with A/S, i'd go with that. They'll last longer and are good with the rain since it sounds like you'll be driving in the rain more often than in the snow. But then again, if you feel there are times snow could prevent slippage and any potential disaster, then that would be the way to go. One mistake in the snow can be very costly and dangerous.

[MrFunk]

I am a strong believer in dedicated snows for winter - and high performance summers for summer. If you are going to have a second set you might as well get snow tires. All seasons suck in the summer and suck in the snow.

[mtndog]

Take a look at the Continental ExtremeContact DWS too. There is a brand new set in the classifieds for $800.00 shipped...if you need 19's.

The one time you need winters in Seattle, stay home. Nothing will help with that crap you guys get.

[Leor604]

I am a strong believer in dedicated snows for winter - and high performance summers for summer. If you are going to have a second set you might as well get snow tires. All seasons suck in the summer and suck in the snow.

+1

When tire rack tested an all wheel drive vehicle (Cayenne) with winters vs A/S, the winter tire destroyed the A/S especially in braking (which tends to be rather important). I think the winter tire stopped from 30mph in about 60 feet, and the A/S required about 100 feet on packed snow. That's the difference between stopping safely and a very bad day.

Some people are saying you should take the day off or leave your car at home when it snows. I didn't buy quattro so I have to take the bus when it snows!

[structureguy246]

Dunlop Winter Sport 3D ftw. Used them last winter and they were awesome... Quattro plus a great winter tire makes you unstoppable...

[mtndog]

+1
Some people are saying you should take the day off or leave your car at home when it snows. I didn't buy quattro so I have to take the bus when it snows!

I'm with you on a dedicated set of snows, it's what I run but Quattro and snow tires are going to do squat in a Seattle ice storm...stopping or going.

"Conclusion
While all-season tires may provide enough wintertime traction for drivers in areas of the country that only receive occasional light snow, Tire Rack feels there isn't a viable alternative to dedicated winter / snow tires if drivers expect to encounter deep or frequent slush, snow or ice."

[A4_n00b]

I am a strong believer in dedicated snows for winter - and high performance summers for summer. If you are going to have a second set you might as well get snow tires. All seasons suck in the summer and suck in the snow.

I'm in total agreement with this. To enjoy our cars (or any for that matter) to the fullest and safest extent, going with the two best/purpose built options makes the most sense to me.

[L0U]

you can drive on performance winters all year round if you wanted. They really are making all seasons obsolete. They just wear faster than all seasons, but still work in the winter.

I drove to Atlanta in Early march. The performance winters made the snow storm around lake Erie no problem, and yet the 30 degrees C a week later driving back was ok too. Wear wasn't bad at all. That snow storm on all seasons would have been hell. they were pa3's.

[A4 Centaur]

Dunlop 3D

[B-Town]

I didn't buy quattro so I have to take the bus when it snows!

x2

[dparm]

you can drive on performance winters all year round if you wanted. They really are making all seasons obsolete. They just wear faster than all seasons, but still work in the winter.

I drove to Atlanta in Early march. The performance winters made the snow storm around lake Erie no problem, and yet the 30 degrees C a week later driving back was ok too. Wear wasn't bad at all. That snow storm on all seasons would have been hell. they were pa3's.

Those tires would get shredded after the summer. The rubber compounds do not last long on warm pavement.

[rs4dreams]

Would I notice much difference in cornering performance in the dry at 40 degrees F between Michelin PA3/4s and something like Bridgestone RE970AS?

[dparm]

Would I notice much difference in cornering performance in the dry at 40 degrees F between Michelin PA3/4s and something like Bridgestone RE970AS?

Hard to say -- it would also depend on pavement temperature. Remember that an all-season has a lot of jobs to do...jack of all trades, master of none. It will never be as good in the dry as a summer tire, and never as good in the snow as a winter tire.

[JonS4]

....Some people are saying you should take the day off or leave your car at home when it snows. I didn't buy quattro so I have to take the bus when it snows!

For PNW winters, I'm more concerned with wet weather performance and the odd dry days you occasionally get for essentially the same reasons as you; I didn't by an S4 to suffer through 4-5 months with snow tire handling and performance. Every year I had them on the A4 and RS4, I couldn't wait to get the summers back on. I understand the deep crap will snooker you but most days most years, I think I'm better off with ASs, at least at sea level or close to it.

[dparm]

I make it a point to go driving in the fresh snow! quattro makes it so much fun.

[kcrunch]

Performance winters are the way to go if you already have summer tires. I don't see the point of all-seasons over performance winters if you are only running them in the cold. I don't think an all season provides much wet/dry performance advantage over a performance winter when it's cold. I ran Dunlop M3s the last 3 winters in Portland on my x-drive 335i and they were great. I'm debating the Dunlop 3Ds vs Michelin PA4 vs Hankook I-cept now that I'm in my B8.5 S4.

[Toecutter]

Performance winter tires on dry pavement feel like normal A/S tires, not squirmy like winter traction tires. In fact, I have been using my Pilot Alpin PA2s on my car this entire summer (trying to wear them all the way out while conserving my summer tread). If you're going to have two sets of wheels then to me it makes more sense to have summers and winters rather than summers and all-seasons.

[B8 S FOR]

^ This...buy two sets of wheels and Performance Summers and Performance Winters. I have the Michelin Alpin PA3s and they are awesome!

[Leor604]

For PNW winters, I'm more concerned with wet weather performance and the odd dry days you occasionally get for essentially the same reasons as you; I didn't by an S4 to suffer through 4-5 months with snow tire handling and performance. Every year I had them on the A4 and RS4, I couldn't wait to get the summers back on. I understand the deep crap will snooker you but most days most years, I think I'm better off with ASs, at least at sea level or close to it.

It all depends on WHICH winter tire you had. I used to have Blizzak full-on ice and snows on my BMW and, yes, I couldn't wait to get them off. They were very soft and squirmy, the tread blocks would lean over with any sort of spirited cornering, and their wet grip (especially braking) was extremely poor. By stark contrast, the PA3's feel NOTHING like the Blizzak and it's not until you push them beyond 8/10ths that they give away their snow tire status as the ultimate grip just isn't up to par with a summer tire. Up to that point, though, they perform very well - no suffering involved.

I was also torn between A/S and winter tires as our winters are hit and miss. Some years the snow won't quit and other years, like last winter, we had no snow at all. One other factor that pushed me toward a full winter is that, depending on road conditions, you must have winter tires with the mountain and snowflake symbol (or put chains on) or you will be turned back on many highways, including the road up to Whistler. A full winter gets you on any road, any time of the year.

[Toecutter]

Those tires would get shredded after the summer. The rubber compounds do not last long on warm pavement.

I think winter-performance rubber lasts longer than most people imagine. I've had my PA2s on for close to 11 months straight including lots of miles on hot summer pavement and the wear wasn't nearly as much as I had expected. Full-on winter traction rubber may be a diffferent story though.

[Seinsmeld13]

I love my Yokohama Wdrives. These tires are quiet as quiet as my summers. I will buy these again.

[dparm]

I think winter-performance rubber lasts longer than most people imagine. I've had my PA2s on for close to 11 months straight including lots of miles on hot summer pavement and the wear wasn't nearly as much as I had expected. Full-on winter traction rubber may be a diffferent story though.

Winter tires wear in weird ways. True winter tires with ice rating will have the ice traction "suction cups" get destroyed from warm pavement, and the siping will wear away. This effectively turns them into all-seasons.