My first Audi - 2001.5 S4 with Custom Single Turbo setup...

[rtl5009]

As someone who did it both ways...

You are really gay. God damnit don't listen to rob. He likes to do things the hard way.

Takes longer bullshitting with the down pipes than removing the axles. Hell, you have to unbolt the tranny to the subframe with that method, half way there.

It still angers me to this day that I actually did it that way last motor pull.

Quit being so salty, noob.

[DxC]

man this build thread is so nuts... and its only just begun haha. no other build thread has 2 temp motors before the final one goes in

[britishturbo]

Pieces of main caps in the pan lol.

[britishturbo]

Ugh I can't make up my mind...

Do I rebuild the 2.7 using the RS4 block as is and get up and running?
Do I make the parts I need for the late 2.7 block to make it stronger?

Ugh I can't decide...
Thoughts?

[NOTORIOUS VR]

I don't' see why you would sacrifice your RS4 block to beat up on it as a temp motor... but that's me

[Monty23]

Just throw the 2.7 late block in (no special parts) and continue testing

Drive it at ~800whp to see how it last, then when the 3.0L is done crank it up and break it

[britishturbo]

I don't' see why you would sacrifice your RS4 block to beat up on it as a temp motor... but that's me

lol it's just an RS4 block

[britishturbo]

Just throw the 2.7 late block in (no special parts) and continue testing

Drive it at ~800whp to see how it last, then when the 3.0L is done crank it up and break it

That won't really tell me anything though.
I'm sure I can break the late block too.
What I need to know is if I can make it unbreakable... lol

At this point if I can make the block handle what I need it to and it stays together then that tells me what I need to know... lol
So I'll 99% more than likely do it right... which is modify the late 2.7 block... and use it.

[britishturbo]

Time to get some parts made for the block...

[aysix]

OYou don't have to unbolt the tranny from frame at all.
You guys just not be doing it right lol.

so you don't need to jack up the tranny?

[britishturbo]

so you don't need to jack up the tranny?

You jack / hoist the engine up enough to clear the mounts, at that point put another jack under the tranny to hold it at that position.
Once the engine is out release the tranny.
Because it is only held by the rear tranny mounts at that point and the axles / driveshaft it will move up enough as is.

[getslideways]

I am hoping we get to see some video of the CNC goodness as it transforms those blocks

[britishturbo]

I am hoping we get to see some video of the CNC goodness as it transforms those blocks

If I show you as I make it, then it will give it away haha... but I will be recording it all

And if anyone can guess what that material is going to be used for... they will win a cookie lol

[Monty23]

Billet main cap/girdle....

[britishturbo]

Billet main cap/girdle....

Maybe ;-)

[ravensB5S4]

Yeah billet main caps, but 034 already has those!

[britishturbo]

Yeah billet main caps, but 034 already has those!

There's much more to it than just that lol.

[ravensB5S4]

How do you know if what you plan on doing isnt just going to be overkill?

[britishturbo]

How do you know if what you plan on doing isnt just going to be overkill?

Overkill? You mean make it so strong I never have to worry about anything breaking it? Yeah... that's the idea lol.

Overengineer... not cut it close.

[Monty23]

How do you know if what you plan on doing isnt just going to be overkill?

He already identified a weakness in the OEM block design (as did others before him)... and he assumes the differences between the early and late blocks are not enough to convince him that the late blocks are "strong enough" for his goals....

[UkuRiSh]

Did you changed any knock sensitive on ECU ?

[britishturbo]

Did you changed any knock sensitive on ECU ?

I leave it stock for safety.
If too much knock then tune accordingly ;-)

[ravensB5S4]

Overkill? You mean make it so strong I never have to worry about anything breaking it? Yeah... that's the idea lol.

Overengineer... not cut it close.

It makes sense from your standpoint, as you have access to tools/materials that will allow you modify the block with ease. I can imagine it being very expensive to pay someone to do what you plan to do. I may be speaking to soon though as Im not sure what your plans are.

Its purely an interest thing for me, I just picture you having a room full of blocks waiting to be broken. This way you could incrementally build and identify what would be necessary for specific goals.

I don't disagree with overengineering, Im not that stupid :).

[Monty23]

I think it's more of there only 24 hours in a day kind of thing

[ravensB5S4]

I believe Lee is working on a time-machine.

Its called a B5 S4 :)

[britishturbo]

I only have about 10 blocks... lol



And true piece by piece evaluation would take a while. Not to mention the 500 to 1000 it costs for each rebuild... salty lol.

I devastated my block. Now I'll build an un breakable block lol.
I'm sure I can make more for others too. For people who really need it.

[Delmed83]

Lee,

I think your body was assembled from dead Audi engineers and rocket scientists.......LOL.

[Meow]

lee comes from dsm world so imagine he will copy the maincap-girdle combo that they come with stock and apply it to a 2.7 based block :)

Something like this...

[britishturbo]

lee comes from dsm world so imagine he will copy the maincap-girdle combo that they come with stock and apply it to a 2.7 based block :)

Something like this...

That design is called a Bedplate. If there was enough meat to work with I would have done that but there isn't.

When it's done you'll see it lol.
It does involve billet main caps though.
I'll finish the design work on the tomorrow.

[getslideways]

I know i am starting to sound like a broken record here, but I am soooo glad you chose the B5S4 as your next project car! All your media heavy posts, and the sharing of information (whether tears or cheers) is what makes this build so fantastic! Thanks Lee!

[laserb5]

Machining out most of the main's material and replacing it with a 300M steel press-in sleeve kind of thing?

[NOTORIOUS VR]

Did you changed any knock sensitive on ECU ?

I leave it stock for safety.
If too much knock then tune accordingly ;-)

I'm actually rather curious as how you're tuning E85 on the street anyway... I don't see an optimal way to tune advance with it on the street or remotely unless you're on the dyno looking @ the actual TQ curves and seeing if you're at or past MBT (which is fairly easy to happen on E85 since it's resistance to knock is very very high).

Do you think you were conservative on your advance numbers? Or do you think you were pushing it?

[britishturbo]

I'm actually rather curious as how you're tuning E85 on the street anyway... I don't see an optimal way to tune advance with it on the street or remotely unless you're on the dyno looking @ the actual TQ curves and seeing if you're at or past MBT (which is fairly easy to happen on E85 since it's resistance to knock is very very high).

Do you think you were conservative on your advance numbers? Or do you think you were pushing it?

Basically at each boost level I will dial in the AFR, and then adjust timing accordingly. On pump gas watching knock obviously, and with E85 analyzing data and logs to see if power increased. If power didn't increase or drops off then there's too much timing.

When the block broke I was shooting for 40psi (hit 42psi) and had bumped the nitrous. I would have been dialing in things from there once the boost was adjusted.
I will tear the block apart tonight, judging from the parts in the pan and the fact that coolant runs out of the block into the pan - I'm pretty sure the devastation I'm going to find will be awesome!

The closest awd dyno to me is 2 hrs away so I hadn't made it there yet.
Perhaps with the new engine I'll just man up and book it for a day and really dial things in there... although to be honest I feel I get very well dialed in from my street tuning...

[ddillenger]

Basically at each boost level I will dial in the AFR, and then adjust timing accordingly. On pump gas watching knock obviously, and with E85 analyzing data and logs to see if power increased. If power didn't increase or drops off then there's too much timing.

When the block broke I was shooting for 40psi (hit 42psi) and had bumped the nitrous. I would have been dialing in things from there once the boost was adjusted.
I will tear the block apart tonight, judging from the parts in the pan and the fact that coolant runs out of the block into the pan - I'm pretty sure the devastation I'm going to find will be awesome!

The closest awd dyno to me is 2 hrs away so I hadn't made it there yet.
Perhaps with the new engine I'll just man up and book it for a day and really dial things in there... although to be honest I feel I get very well dialed in from my street tuning...

Have you bought an emulator yet? I could see that really expediting the process. Another thing I was curious about was how you're fine tuning timing>191 load. I know we touched on it in an email, but I don't recall what you said (sorry).

[NOTORIOUS VR]

Basically at each boost level I will dial in the AFR, and then adjust timing accordingly. On pump gas watching knock obviously, and with E85 analyzing data and logs to see if power increased. If power didn't increase or drops off then there's too much timing.

I hope you don't take offense to this, but IMO that is basically just "winging it"

You cannot see slight increases or decreases in TQ on E85 in a log no dialing in advance is going to be a "best guess" effort IMO... on pump gas you have the knock feedback to rely on telling you if you've reached or past the area(s) of advance when you near MBT.

I mean you've clearly done well with your methods, but for your big build I'm hoping you will take route of putting the car on a dyno to dial it in on E85. Not sure if I missed it, but how are you dealing with with ign retard when you spray and don't spray? two different maps?

[britishturbo]

Have you bought an emulator yet? I could see that really expediting the process. Another thing I was curious about was how you're fine tuning timing>191 load. I know we touched on it in an email, but I don't recall what you said (sorry).

I haven't got an emulator yet no... that would be a great investment I'm sure... Someday I will!
As for timing > 191 load - until we have 16bit timing load lookup it will always be a compromise.
I basically tweak the 191 column for my full load and adjust the lower load values as needed.
With a big turbo once you are spooled up above 191 load you are quickly at full boost anyway so it seems to work - at least as well as the compromise it is can.

[britishturbo]

I hope you don't take offense to this, but IMO that is basically just "winging it"

You cannot see slight increases or decreases in TQ on E85 in a log no dialing in advance is going to be a "best guess" effort IMO... on pump gas you have the knock feedback to rely on telling you if you've reached or past the area(s) of advance when you near MBT.

I mean you've clearly done well with your methods, but for your big build I'm hoping you will take route of putting the car on a dyno to dial it in on E85. Not sure if I missed it, but how are you dealing with with ign retard when you spray and don't spray? two different maps?

I don't take any offence from saying I'm "winging it" street tuning is street tuning - it is what it is.
But in general I pay close attention to everything and don't push the last few % of everything. I tend to leave some more in it if you will.
In the case of the block failure it was just a case of the weakest point letting go.

As for timing with nitrous - because my nitrous system is set up as anti - lag it tends to always be on below max load and between set rpms... because of this it's very easy to adjust the timing in that nitrous spool up area. The only side effect is maybe slightly less advance than ideal when the nitrous is off - but that can help spool anyway.

But yeah as mentioned before I plan on using the dyno when possible to fine tune the ragged edge ;-)

And I think I do alright. I'm not a professional tuner... I just tune things lol.

[Monty23]

speaking of tuning things

[britishturbo]

speaking of tuning things

Ah yes... thanks for the reminder lol

[ddillenger]

I haven't got an emulator yet no... that would be a great investment I'm sure... Someday I will!
As for timing > 191 load - until we have 16bit timing load lookup it will always be a compromise.
I basically tweak the 191 column for my full load and adjust the lower load values as needed.
With a big turbo once you are spooled up above 191 load you are quickly at full boost anyway so it seems to work - at least as well as the compromise it is can.

My humble opinion:

RS4 K-box using the ESKONF configuration of your current file (but leave the n335 alone and use it to activate something cool, it can be configured based on load and rpm-nitrous?). I don't understand why people aren't making the switch considering. I'm only shooting for 500awhp and I consider the M-box to be too much of a compromise.

NOTE:

I keep checking this thread for the carnage pictures. Just sayin' (take the engine apart).

lol