Seeking opinions, thoughts and insight on B8 A4 S-Line...

[iconoclast]

I have been searching for a B7 S4 Avant to use as a project car and since finding one has become more difficult than I anticipated I have entertained going the B8 A4 Avant S-Line route and then modifying it.

A dealer I asked to keep an eye out on an S4 Avant contacted me about a B8 A4 Avant S Line they have and I am entertaining this option providing the modifications make it a bit more fun to drive.

The stock A4 feels underpowered for the size/weight while it does have a fair amount of low-end power and the throttle map makes the car seem faster than it is it still needs some more juice.

My question(s) is basically after modifications how much quicker did the car feel or better yet how much faster was the car overall?

I do not see on AWE's site any turbo upgrades (a la "stageIII" style) but from what is offered I would basically go with a GIAC tune, FMIC, Upgraded Diverter, Downpipe, Exhaust, Rear Sway Bar & if the ALU Kreuz works on the A4 I would install that as well.

Would this even be worth it if only minors gains are achieved? (I believe the end result would roughly 245whp and 265wtq.)

[dracolnyte]

there is K04 from APR or EFR from RAI

[iconoclast]

i have been reading about the APR kit on their site... i am a bit confused about what the wheel hp/tq results are... apr states 116hp gain but is that at the crank or at the wheels? if it is crank the $3k in parts + labor costs is not worth the money (IMO) since that is basically 90whp gain or ~45hp more over stgII.

[Stubek]

Not sure how far you want to go, but the APR stage 1 tune, nothing else, and on a dyno, was 282 TQ and 211 HP at the wheels on my friend's car. If you want to spend big money, then the APR Stage 3 with the S3 KO4 in it will get you close to 300 AWHP, but I look at it from the point of view that $1k will get me a car that does 0-60 in 5.2ish probably and that the extra $2k+ to get the stage 3 will not get me that much faster.

I(f you really want a B7S4 avant, I don't know where you live (In, Out, and Around) is not very specific, but a dealership Sacramento, California has a B7 S4 avant with not "too many" miles for about $17,500 or so. There was a thread on here in the last few days about it.

[iconoclast]

thanks for the feedback... the apr numbers on the site are WHP/WTQ!? if so then that is worth the money to go full s3 k04.

i looking mainly in the northeast for s4 avant, i have searched autotrader nationwide and only one is at an audi dealer and it is blue. unfortunately one of the few colors i do not want the car to be.

[Stubek]

No. That is crank hp and tq. That is why I said in dyno I make 282 tq. Apr claims something like 323 tq. When you figure drivetrain loss and variations in dynos etc, 282 at the wheels is great. Not sure what the KO4 kit does at the wheels

[iconoclast]

i am going with 20% drivetrain loss on those numbers posted on the site... 313hp - 63hp takes you to 250whp. obviously not an exact science but just a general idea. (i contacted apr requesting actual numbers and currently waiting for a response.) i am not sure that the s3 k04 kit is worth the premium considering what a stgII w/ fmic does for you for a bit less money however if it did 300+
whp that would be a different story.

long story short, basically what i am asking is in your opinion does the car feel underpowered when you load it up with cargo? on open roads does it pull well stock and/or modified? when you had it completely stock was the car dull? would've been nicer with dsg but again just another thing not available here.

[ultra]

I have the apr k04 and although I have not dyno'd it I can tell u it pulls on a stock B8 S4 and keeps up with a tuned B8 S4
so whatever power that makes, that's what it does.

[iconoclast]

fairly vague response but i appreciate the information... if that is the case then it may be worthwhile but i will reserve my thoughts until i hear back from apr or if someone in the CT/NJ/NY area has one and would like to take me for a spin that would be great too.

[ultra]

picky, picky.yeah I know everybody always asks for video of these events but I dont ride around with my camera on all the time but it happened.
Just trying to give all you guys dying to jump ship some hope.

[iconoclast]

not asking for videos,photos or trophies, just stated that 'tuned b8 s4' doesnt tell me much and can mean many things. i am not looking to build the fastest car on the road just want to make the stock a4 a bit more fun and give it an increase in some much needed power.

[ultra]

not asking for videos,photos or trophies, just stated that 'tuned b8 s4' doesnt tell me much and can mean many things. i am not looking to build the fastest car on the road just want to make the stock a4 a bit more fun and give it an increase in some much needed power.

ok well for me tuned B8 S4 means that the car has only a tune, and in this case it was apr v1 since it was before v2 was out

[rippin'av]

I was at a dyno day and saw some B7 S4's but down something along the lines of 250-260 whp and not that impressive of wtq. The stock B8 A4 has more tq. Stage 2 on the B8 would make the car pretty quick, but not "fast" in my opinion. K04 is the way to go for now on these 2.0T. I used to be stage 2 and now that I'm back at stage 1, I miss the power (mostly from removal of HFC).

You're comparing two very different cars. V8 B7 vs. 2.0T. B8 is a newer car, better technology, etc. and the options to modify are there and more are coming. APR K04 or EFR from RAI like somebody said earlier but you'll be spending a bunch of money...

If you can afford the B8 A4 S-line you can't really go wrong. You can always go Stage 1 or 2 and upgrade to K04 later. The TQ from these little engines make it fun regardless.

[fritze18]

My engine/performance modifications include Stasis 91 octane tune, AWE intercooler, Eurocode high-flow intercooler pipe, Eurocode silicone intercooler hoses (which includes the larger-diameter turbo outlet adapter), Eurocode TruFit silicone intake hose, AFE dry-flow drop-in air filter, and an AWE dual-exit exhaust. These mods made my B8 A4 S-Line A LOT more fun to drive. I was able to pull on my buddy's Unitronic Stage1 Golf R (~300hp at the crank) 3x in a row.

[iconoclast]

I was at a dyno day and saw some B7 S4's but down something along the lines of 250-260 whp and not that impressive of wtq. The stock B8 A4 has more tq. Stage 2 on the B8 would make the car pretty quick, but not "fast" in my opinion. K04 is the way to go for now on these 2.0T. I used to be stage 2 and now that I'm back at stage 1, I miss the power (mostly from removal of HFC).

You're comparing two very different cars. V8 B7 vs. 2.0T. B8 is a newer car, better technology, etc. and the options to modify are there and more are coming. APR K04 or EFR from RAI like somebody said earlier but you'll be spending a bunch of money...

If you can afford the B8 A4 S-line you can't really go wrong. You can always go Stage 1 or 2 and upgrade to K04 later. The TQ from these little engines make it fun regardless.

when i had a b7 s4 after tune and some minor modifications it did 281whp/296wtq. basically the same thing i would do the second time around but that is the absolute most you're getting out of the car with out going with a supercharger and then higher costs and problems are introduced. the b8 a4 has more potential for power but i think at this time a stageII would be more than enough until a real stgIII k04 map came out.

[maga4]

i am going with 20% drivetrain loss on those numbers posted on the site... 313hp - 63hp takes you to 250whp. obviously not an exact science but just a general idea. (i contacted apr requesting actual numbers and currently waiting for a response.) i am not sure that the s3 k04 kit is worth the premium considering what a stgII w/ fmic does for you for a bit less money however if it did 300+
whp that would be a different story.

long story short, basically what i am asking is in your opinion does the car feel underpowered when you load it up with cargo? on open roads does it pull well stock and/or modified? when you had it completely stock was the car dull? would've been nicer with dsg but again just another thing not available here.

I am pretty sure APR uses 12% drivetrain loss for their figures, so crank numbers may be a bit higher. Check this out (may be interesting thread to read through for you too): http://www.audizine.com/forum/showth...=1#post5406090

Stubek's numbers seem to be close to what others have posted...i want to say (from memory) that Auditude2.0T was ~237whp and 296wtq with stage 2 APR (HFC) dyno...please correct if wrong.

[iconoclast]

thanks, i spoke with arin last night... he told me the numbers posted are at the crank and to expect roughly 30hp drop to vaguely guesstimate whp.

[sickspeed]

the B8 s-line avants are gonna be hard to come by. i have one, an 09, but they dont come up for sale often and will be even hard now with audis decision to drop the avants form the US lineup.

with regard to your performance question, the tfsi 2.0t engine is a superior engine in many ways to the v8. basically, for the money youll save in gas and up front costs of the s4, you can mod the hell out of the 2.0t and be quite happy. between software, high flow cat, turbo and intercooler pipe upgrades, exhaust, and even a bigger turbo, you have a lot of economical upgrades and will still get 30+ mpg. the engine itself is lighter and has a lot of unlocked potential. the fact that its a wagon is just icing on the cake.

[Liquid Smoke]

if you get a stage 2 apr the performance will be plenty enough, if you're not going for fastest and just very fun to drive, that's what it should be, stage 2 makes it pretty good, even a stage 1 is a huge improvement over stock

if you get an S4, dont even worry about tunes, the B8 S4 is very quick, the V6T is much quicker than the B7's V8. you will be satisfied with a stock S4, and a stage 1 will be more than enough on that if you want it quicker.

[iconoclast]

the B8 s-line avants are gonna be hard to come by. i have one, an 09, but they dont come up for sale often and will be even hard now with audis decision to drop the avants form the US lineup.

with regard to your performance question, the tfsi 2.0t engine is a superior engine in many ways to the v8. basically, for the money youll save in gas and up front costs of the s4, you can mod the hell out of the 2.0t and be quite happy. between software, high flow cat, turbo and intercooler pipe upgrades, exhaust, and even a bigger turbo, you have a lot of economical upgrades and will still get 30+ mpg. the engine itself is lighter and has a lot of unlocked potential. the fact that its a wagon is just icing on the cake.

this particular dealer has one that is exactly the way i want but it needs some serious TLC (re-spray bumpers, recondition wheels from curb rash, new tires, etc.) which adds to the project but other than those minor issues it is basically the way i would order it new.

if you get an S4, dont even worry about tunes, the B8 S4 is very quick, the V6T is much quicker than the B7's V8. you will be satisfied with a stock S4, and a stage 1 will be more than enough on that if you want it quicker.

unfortunately the B8 S4 never came in an Avant here so no interest in it at the moment.

[sickspeed]

well if those really are the only issues and the rest of the car is good, id say get it assuming its the right price. remember, s-line avants are a rare find. i drove to nyc from dc to get mine. similarly, the wheels had a little rash on them and the hood had some knicks since it was in nyc but otherwise is was stellar and i knew i was going to be swapping out the wheels in summer anyway. mine was a dealer exec car so it has literally every option on it. cosmetic stuff can be fixed relatively easily.

[iconoclast]

same deal here, dealer exec car every option but in the same vein the person knew they were turning it so they didnt really care for it properly cosmetically. i threw out a number to the dealer yesterday. if they bite i'll take it and start this project.

[hanyoung]

Stage 1 B8 S-line avant. Great on the street..., but last weekend first time on the track... I gotta say a disappointment in the straights (great on corners w/ EUrocode sways). Would catch much more capable cars (335, S4) on corners, would lose them on the straights. Hope it will be different with stg 2.

[Greg Nelson]

There exists an '09 3.2 Tip - not chippable yet, perhaps soon.
She Rides Sweet For Me
Cheers

[iconoclast]

seems the car had intake manifold gasket replaced.
camshaft adjuster replaced
sunroof guide frame replaced
b&o amp replaced
clock spring replaced
servotronic control module replaced
turn signal bulbs replaced


the sunroof and the camshaft were both service campaigns/recalls.

thoughts? troublesome? dont worry it's covered and repaired?

[sickspeed]

that list is a bit long but it sounds more like covered and repaired than troublesome. you might check to see if the pistons/seals (iirc) were replaced due to excessive oil consumption.

[iconoclast]

keep in mind i am using a different dealer, so the info isnt hidden or phrased to make it sound like all is well... i asked about oil consumption and they said that there is no history of complaints or issues or warranty work completed for that issue... i would assume that with thirty something thousand miles it would have been addressed providing it was an issue... especially since it was an exec car/lease. i may also just be selling myself on the idea instead of holding out for another. not sure at this point.

[sickspeed]

perhaps. i bought mine with about 24k miles on it and the piston work had been done. the oil consumption issue is a known problem on these cars so if it hasnt been done yet, id probe it more and at least monitor it closely. its a huge job, they pull the entire engine out of the car and disassemble a good portion of it. definitely check it really closely as you near warranty expiration. ultimately, these cars are really well built and while they might be pricey to repair, there are ways to make it livable and audi does a pretty good job of fixing stuff that shouldnt break in the first place. it sounds like youre considering a somewhat rare and unique car with only minor issues. most of which might have already been fixed. one challenge im having is how to lower the car since itd be a shame to abandon or disable the ADS system. so far it looks like the only way to lower the car and retain ADS is the KW adjustable spring kit. coilovers would disable it. just my 2 cents.

[iconoclast]

it is basically coming down to agreeing on price. at the moment we are a few bucks apart... if they accept my number i will take the car. i couldnt have made it any simpler for them.

[A4 Centaur]

Haven't dynoed my 2.0 Avant S-Line yet, but according to APR's numbers I should be 239 HP/ 353 Ft. Lbs. Torque with a Stage 2 set-up.

These numbers are probably at the crank?

[iconoclast]

yes, i spoke with apr directly. ALL their numbers are CRANK hp/tq unless otherwise stated.

[A4 Centaur]

Well at least the torque numbers are good, even at the crank, car pulls like tractor now.

[iconoclast]

i think i am going to pull the trigger on one today... someone talk me out of it... is this car worth the money + mods + oil consumption + carbon build up???

[dscline]

Don't get one. The S-Line Avants are hard enough to find as it is. Leave it for someone who will appreciate it rather than wanting to be talked out of it.

[iconoclast]

lol. my only concern is the 2.0t engine. i dont want to modify this thing and then be stuck holding the bag on every repair because audi says "you touched it, not our problem anymore'.