Brand new S4 Horror Story, need an advice

**Prodigyman** · 01-30-2012 12:14 PM

Hello guys, been adequate users of Audizene for a while now and I need some advice with my current situation:

I’ve bought a brand new S4 this April, fully loaded (S Tronic, ADS etc..) Ibis While on Red, and few month back my car started to make a clunking noise from the transmission, talked to a dealer (Audi of Mississauga – Toronto Area) and they told me to take it in in few weeks even though my CEL and Stronic malfunction light kept on coming in and sometimes refuses to go in gear.

Never the less I kept on driving and one day car just stopped going to gear and stalled in the middle of downtown Toronto, as embarrassing as that was, car got towed by Rode side assist. They called me later telling my they will be replacing my whole transmission , 3 weeks later it was installed and ready to go.
Once I picked up the car (on a Saturday after noon) right away I noticed a loud clunking noise coming out of the transmission again, and I came back and told them that. They said to drive it till Monday and to bring it in, called them on Monday and they just said it’s a new transmission and to break it in and the noise will go away. 900 KM later I am driving on a highway @ 100 km/hour (60 mph) and the whole car ceases and locking the wheels and causing me to almost crash, I was able to take control of it and pull over to the side.

Audi towed the car away and called me few days later saying that they improbably installed the drive shaft and it snapped in half. Few weeks later they got the parts again and installed it, at this point I was already talking to Audi of Canada asking them to get me a different S4 (I love this car and I don’t want anything else), I just want a car that was made and assembled in Germany and not touched by incompetent mechanics at Audi of Mississauga. Long story short I got nowhere with them, Audi of Canada told me to deal with a dealer and dealer just told me they will fix it and nothing they can do about it…

At this point I was dealing with Service and Dealership manager, so they fixed the car and I got it back, once again few weeks later car started to make very loud metal snapping noise from front and rear of the car (and the sports diff was wining). I took the car there again and they called me few days later telling me they improperly installed the front and rear sway bars and had to replace them, plus everything was fine with the rear diff. And to top everything off I was having slow MMI and front headlight washer problems too (because of improper bumper install, they even didn’t clip the fender cover so it few off on a highway…) on top of other minor issues etc…

Going against all the reason I took the car back last Friday and they promised they will do something with Audi of Canada and make it right. Today I was driving and my whole car exploded, and by exploded it was a loud boom and smoke all over the engine bay (I was driving in traffic downtown), coolant and oil was leaking out of the car and I caused a jam on a busy street, I still was able to start it again and drive it to nearest parking lot for Audi roadside assist to pick it up.

At this point I already had a 2 hour conversation with Audi of Canada customer service and my dealer but I told them I do not want the car back and will be taking the matters to court. And I told them I do not want anything else but a brand new S4 which wasn’t touched by the local dealers… This has affected my personal life and wasted so much of my time, what would you guys recommend to do in this case?

**EinSchnellAudi** · 01-30-2012 12:26 PM

If you have talked to lawyers, what have they said? I do not know the laws in Canada, perhaps you have some sort of lemon law protection? I would discuss with lawyers and see what can be done, and then see what the dealer says. It sounds like a nightmare, and only time will tell what will happen with it. I hope it all works out. Sorry to hear about all of this :(

**clochner** · 01-30-2012 12:35 PM

Wow! Sorry to hear about this. If there was ever a prime candidate for the lemon laws here in the States, it would be your car for sure. You must be frustrated as all hell.

Unfortunately, if Audi of Canada isn't going to intervene, I'd say you should definitely start the legal process and have an attorney file a complaint against both the dealer and whatever is the proper corporate entity to sue in Canada. Also, given that litigation is probably your only remedy at this point, I would advise you to be VERY, VERY careful what you say on public forums like these. I'm not sure what the discovery laws are in Canada, but in the US everything is essentially fair game, and the smallest misstatement can be used against you.

Good luck, and keep us posted!!

**EXRS4** · 01-30-2012 12:37 PM

Originally Posted by clochner

Wow! Sorry to hear about this. If there was ever a prime candidate for the lemon laws here in the States, it would be your car for sure. You must be frustrated as all hell.

Unfortunately, if Audi of Canada isn't going to intervene, I'd say you should definitely start the legal process and have an attorney file a complaint against both the dealer and whatever is the proper corporate entity to sue in Canada. Also, given that litigation is probably your only remedy at this point, I would advise you to be VERY, VERY careful what you say on public forums like these. I'm not sure what the discovery laws are in Canada, but in the US everything is essentially fair game, and the smallest misstatement can be used against you.

Good luck, and keep us posted!!

The initial process is free to consumers in Canada and has proven very effective.

Rarely does the consumer need to hire and pay for a lawyer.

**ilspazzaneve** · 01-30-2012 07:58 PM

This

Originally Posted by clochner

I would advise you to be VERY, VERY careful what you say on public forums like these. I'm not sure what the discovery laws are in Canada, but in the US everything is essentially fair game, and the smallest misstatement can be used against you.

Good luck, and keep us posted!!

But thanks for posting, that's one dealership I won't be taking my S4.

**silverman** · 01-30-2012 12:28 PM

I would have tweaked after that. I applaud you for your temperament in dealing with your brand new car being a lemon. Good luck, and sorry I have no real advice.

**StratJohn** · 01-30-2012 12:28 PM

Wow. Time to write a letter to Johan De Nysschen. It's worked for lesser scenarios.

**Stereodude** · 01-30-2012 02:06 PM

Originally Posted by StratJohn

Wow. Time to write a letter to Johan De Nysschen. It's worked for lesser scenarios.

What is the connection between Audi Canada and Audi of America?

Johan De Nysschen is the President of Audi of America, Inc. Unless Audi Canada is a subsidiary of Audi of America (doesn't seem to be) I don't think that letter will do any good.

**RingDing** · 01-30-2012 12:29 PM

Wow. I think you're on the right path with Audi. I would give Audi (not the dealer) a chance to rectify. Also, call your local news station and see if there is something there to put in your back pocket...tell the dealer about news station as well as Audi.

**EXRS4** · 01-30-2012 12:30 PM

Holy Shit, that is truly a horror that takes the cake. It sounds like they screwed up your entire drivetrain and in the process destroyed your motor. I would have to say lemon law kicks in, 3 repairs no resolution and car now demolished.

Why didn't you take it to Audi Downtown? Judging by the picture you're literally 3 kms away. I hope you're at least driving a loaner from the dealership. There is no chance I would take that car back now and I hope you get satisfaction.

**Hugh@EuropaParts** · 01-30-2012 12:31 PM

I would lawyer up and see what they say, I would also NOT take the car back from the dealer... you can tell them to give your lawyer a call if they have any questions or concerns.

**EXRS4** · 01-30-2012 12:35 PM

Start here:

http://www.camvap.ca/eng/media_release.htm

The Canadian Motor Vehicle Arbitration Plan Canada - Canadian Motor Vehicle Arbitration Plan is the dispute resolution program for consumers in Canada that have problems with the assembly of their vehicle or with how the manufacturer implements its new vehicle warranty. CAMVAP covers new or used owned or leased vehicles that are from the current model year and up to an additional four model years old.

CAMVAP is an arbitration program. It is free to consumers. Hearings are held in the consumer's home community. The process normally takes less than 70 days from start to finish. Most consumers are able to handle their own case without the assistance of lawyers. The manufacturers do not use lawyers. Their representatives usually are serving or retired district parts and services representatives. An inspection of the vehicle normally is part of an arbitration hearing and the arbitrator can order a technical inspection of the vehicle at the program's expense if doing so is required.

CAMVAP arbitrators can order the manufacturer to buyback the vehicle; repair it at the manufacturer's expense; pay for repairs already completed; pay out of pocket expenses for items such as towing, diagnostic testing, rental cars and accommodation related to the problem with the vehicle. The arbitrator can also order that the manufacturer has no liability.

CAMVAP is available in every Canadian Province and Territory.

**Prodigyman** · 01-30-2012 12:36 PM

By the way car has been there 5 times because of these issues, not even 3 :/. I've been driving loaners for last 3 month in and out. I guess I'll lawyer up and see where it takes me and try to make some waves with Audi of Germany or North America.

And thanks for the info guys, I'll check out Canadian Motor Vehicle Arbitration Plan Canada too.

**Stereodude** · 01-30-2012 12:38 PM

Time for a brand new S4 on Audi's & the dealer's dime.

PS: That really sucks!

**caitovS4** · 01-30-2012 12:43 PM

Based on your description, you definitely deserve to have your car replaced.
Don't settle for anything less.

**audi49** · 01-30-2012 12:43 PM

Sorry to hear about your story. 'they just said it’s a new transmission and to break it in and the noise will go away'....amazing comment... that by itself should tell you everything about that service rep.

**Grayv3** · 01-30-2012 12:47 PM

stick shift ftw

**RAudiB7A4** · 01-30-2012 12:55 PM

Wow, just wow. I'm with everyone else. Don't take that car back. No matter what. New car from a different dealer or no deal. I also applaud you on your temperment with the whole ordeal. Good luck!

**2011_S4** · 01-30-2012 12:57 PM

Wow, you have had the worst luck with this car!!

I'll tell you what I did when I had issues. I had to have the engine completely replaced with 1500 kms on it. My fear was that the dealer would screw up the engine swap (since my car was the first engine swap they had done) and I would have nothing but problems after that. I was prepared for the worst. The issue also forced me to be without the car for almost 2 months all said and done. I pushed the dealer to cover my payments for that time. I assured the GM of my dealership that if they did not cover my payments and if there were any further problems associated to the engine replacement, I would keep coming in, day after day, until something was done. When I mentioned that I would take my experience to the forums, the local media, etc, I received a lot more cooperation. After that discussion, the dealer agreed to cover my payments. Luckily, I haven't had any major issues related to that swap. If I had, I would have been pursuing Audi Canada, the dealer, and the media to eventually get the car replaced - similar to the route you are taking.

You have had several major issues go wrong since the tranny swap. I would be curious to know if Audi of Mississauga has any experience doing this complete replacement before your car. Doesn't sound like they have, and now you have problems. This is dealer error, plain and simple. Completely unacceptable. I would be telling Audi Canada that you have completely lost confidence in Audi of Mississauga and refuse to return to them. Audi Canada needs to put pressure on the dealer, and they can if they are motivated - however having been in a similar situation, you are best to keep pushing on both ends - both Audi Canada and the dealer. Let the dealer and Audi Canada know that you are prepared to make this issue as public as possible, that you won't go away, and that you'll continue to make noise. Push for a replacement, or at the very least, some form of compensation for all this trouble.

This is just my opinion. Best of luck and keep us posted.

***Stubek*** · 01-30-2012 01:10 PM

Sorry to hear it all. The proper thing to do is the CAMVAP process. I think it is 100% guaranteed it will rule in your favor and you will get a new S4 out of it. The problem is it will be identical to what you have.
Now, if you go the roundabout way and try with De Nysschen, you might be able to get a few more options.

Two things that will probably come up, you may need to fight in either situation to have a loaner while your new car is readied and if they have to order and build that car, get De Nysschen involved so he can move your build date up (yes, he has done that a few times).
The other issue is this late in the model year, you might not be able to get a 2012 built and be told to pick one somewhere in Canada and get it delivered or to wait for a 2013 in which case you are waiting until July or August. Even if they can build you one, this late in the year, it is probably going to be a 4 month (16 weeks) wait unless De Nysschen can move you up in the production cue.

I think if it was me, I would start the court process with CAMVAP and as soon as I submit that paperwork, send a a copy of it with a detailed letter including service orders to De Nysschen and then send him a follow-up with what the resolution was from CAMVAP if he does not get involved.

Also, report the individual techs who worked on your car to Audi of Canada an say they need more training. If they are improperly installing drive shafts and fenders that are causing these huge issues, they should not be working on cars.

**tomh009** · 01-30-2012 02:05 PM

Originally Posted by Stubek

Sorry to hear it all. The proper thing to do is the CAMVAP process. I think it is 100% guaranteed it will rule in your favor and you will get a new S4 out of it. The problem is it will be identical to what you have.

There certainly aren't many S4s out there with these kinds of problems, so the odds of a new car going through the same thing would be rather slim. And as another poster said, you could always go with 6MT.

Originally Posted by Stubek

Now, if you go the roundabout way and try with De Nysschen, you might be able to get a few more options.

De Nysschen is CEO of Audi of America, that's the wrong country. Martin Sander is the CEO of Audi Canada (which is not a subsidiary of Audi of America).

Originally Posted by Stubek

Two things that will probably come up, you may need to fight in either situation to have a loaner while your new car is readied and if they have to order and build that car, get De Nysschen involved so he can move your build date up (yes, he has done that a few times).
The other issue is this late in the model year, you might not be able to get a 2012 built and be told to pick one somewhere in Canada and get it delivered or to wait for a 2013 in which case you are waiting until July or August. Even if they can build you one, this late in the year, it is probably going to be a 4 month (16 weeks) wait unless De Nysschen can move you up in the production cue.

Audi Canada (though not de Nysschen) can certainly find an unsold S4 for the OP if they want - hopefully with an appropriate set of options.

Originally Posted by Stubek

I think if it was me, I would start the court process with CAMVAP and as soon as I submit that paperwork, send a a copy of it with a detailed letter including service orders to De Nysschen and then send him a follow-up with what the resolution was from CAMVAP if he does not get involved.

Not a court process, it's arbitration, no lawyers involved. (We Canadians are not as big on lawyers as our American cousins ...)

(This wasn't intended to pick on you, Stubek, it just gave me a chance to address a whole bunch of points in one post.)

**phillips2024** · 01-30-2012 01:30 PM

man that sucks! sorry to hear about all this. I hope it gets better from here on out

**APedicelli** · 01-30-2012 02:34 PM

Wow..Honestly thats all that comes to mind..If a letter does not do anything try and find out who the owner of the dealer is..I dont know about you guys in Toronto but the Audi dealerships here in montreal are owned by ppl..And try and take something up with him if there is a owner..If not go right to the media..No major car company like Audi would ever want to have bad PR about there customer service or their dealer!

Good luck with this

**Stereodude** · 01-30-2012 03:59 PM

Originally Posted by APedicelli

Wow..Honestly thats all that comes to mind..If a letter does not do anything try and find out who the owner of the dealer is..I dont know about you guys in Toronto but the Audi dealerships here in montreal are owned by ppl..And try and take something up with him if there is a owner..If not go right to the media..No major car company like Audi would ever want to have bad PR about there customer service or their dealer!

Good luck with this

Well, he should be writing to Wolfgang Hoffmann, President of Audi Canada then, not Johan De Nysschen.

**tomh009** · 01-30-2012 04:24 PM

Originally Posted by Stereodude

Well, he should be writing to Wolfgang Hoffmann, President of Audi Canada then, not Johan De Nysschen.

Right you are! Looks like Martin Sander left for the UK at the end of the year. Good catch!

**CBRmatt600** · 01-30-2012 03:48 PM

I would be raising absolute hell and demanding a brand new car- after they installed the driveshaft incorrectly. You have way more patience than most.

**phillips2024** · 02-07-2012 01:26 PM

although its AWESOME you are able to get a new car, i think the "high mileage" argument is ridiculous. As for which option; really depends if you like the refresh 2013 MY. If you were to get the MY13, would your dealership be able to give you a loaner in the meantime?

**Prodigyman** · 02-07-2012 01:30 PM

Originally Posted by phillips2024

although its AWESOME you are able to get a new car, i think the "high mileage" argument is ridiculous. As for which option; really depends if you like the refresh 2013 MY. If you were to get the MY13, would your dealership be able to give you a loaner in the meantime?

No they can give a new car but I have to pay $500 a month to rent it... so its about 3.5 month away and any car they give me will also depreciates (I do put high miles), and I see their argument and they do have exactly same car ready for me with the config I want so it will be a tough sell to get a loner for that long.

**caco** · 01-30-2012 04:03 PM