2000 A4 2.0L - Built

[BaconBait]

Since I don't like teaser threads, here's my built thread.



GTX-3076R 0.63 AR
Treadstone Exhaust Manifold
Tial MVS Wastegate
Bell Intercooler
ClutchMasters FX-400 240mm
3" Exhaust w/single Magnaflow muffler (loud and needs a second muffler)
83mm Wiseco Pistons
ABA forged crank
Supertech valvetrain
CAT Purple intake cam (BobQ special)
Ported intake+minor bowl work
Raceware head studs

KW V3 coilovers
Stasis/Alcon 355mm 4piston fronts
B5 S4 rear brakes with Stasis/Alcon 298mm
Hotchkis sway bars

Uncorrected Dyno-


Corrected Dyno (it was tuned last week when it was a bit chilly out) -


I picked up the block and motor a few years ago with the intention of doing this build. The motor was built at Lorenzos fast flow cylinder heads in Trevose, PA. Nice shop with an engine dyno they use to tune drag motors with. They were tuning a blown alky motor to 2,000 hp when I picked my motor up. My buddy Dan and I took out the original ATW motor and installed the upgraded AEB and clutch in my driveway.

The downpipe, intercooler, intercooler piping, turbo intake pipe, tuning, and catch can were all done at Autospeed. Their fabrication skills are fantastic. Mark and Dan were very patient with me even though I called about once a week. Once I find my camera I'll get rid of the iphone pic and update the thread.

As for how it drives, it surprised the shit out of me when I left the shop to go for the inaugural test drive. I was expecting some lag and had my foot way too far down on the pedal when I left the shop lot. The thing rips. Under 3500 rpm it's pretty average. After that I have to make sure I'm going in a straight line. I was getting wheel spin on the onramps in second and third gear (I know it's cold and the tires were frozen solid, but hey it was fun as hell). The clutch will take some getting used to. Managed to stall it twice. Meth, intake manifold, and throttle body upgrade will come later.

[murdered APR a4]

NICE!!! I want a video though!! lol

[morzechowski]

Sweet. Moar pictures!

[Seerlah]

Very nice! But here comes the discussion:

Isn't the GTX-3076R supposed to flow like a GT35R? I know not all dynos are created equal, but I think your tune may need some tweeking.

[thenj3]

yea the peak numbers do look low. spool is rather nice though

[BaconBait]

It flows a bit more than the 3076 with slightly more lag and has less top end flow than the 35R. The boost is tapered to keep it a bit safer, that may be why the peak hp isn't what you may expect.

[Seerlah]

Don't get me wrong, those are great numbers. I was just under the impression that it flows like a GT35R (lbs/min).

[jaychen]

Great setup.

I have a few questions though.

What are you using to tune ?

What are the treadstone exhaust manifolds like? Are they prone to cracking ?

[BaconBait]

Well, I was going for as much torque as early as possible. Most people have been using much more aggressive cam setups, which gives them the peak hp, but costs on the low end, which would have gone against my torque goal.

[bw86]

Nice!

Vids!

[BaconBait]

Great setup.

I have a few questions though.

What are you using to tune ?

What are the treadstone exhaust manifolds like? Are they prone to cracking ?

Thanks!

Tuning was done by Autospeed on the stock ECU.

I haven't heard of any treadstone manifolds cracking. If you're worried about it, they do have a stainless steel version. The turbo intake can be a bit of a pain since it puts the turbo more behind the headlight, but it's also further back than the ATP style log manifold. It also doesn't have that giant void in the collector area like the SPA manifold.

[jaychen]

Does Autospeed offer something similar to Maestro? I'm not familiar with their tuning capabilities..

Keen for a heap more pics of the setup !

[BaconBait]

Does Autospeed offer something similar to Maestro? I'm not familiar with their tuning capabilities..

Keen for a heap more pics of the setup !

Not that I'm aware of. I don't see why they would reinvent the wheel. They do have an iPhone app to switch programs for certain ECU's. They tune with an in house dyno.

Still looking for my camera. Once I find the damn thing I'll post more pics.

[Seerlah]

Not to be that guy, but I just looked it up and it looks like your turbo actually outflows the GT3582R by maybe 2 lbs/min. That turbo is advertised as spool like a GT3076R, but flows like a GT35R. And it seems true, going by compressor maps. I get bashed when I think people could be making more power, but there is a person in the B6 section (dougyfresh) who runs a standard GT3076R on pump gas (not sure what boost), ASP tuning like you, 2.0L of displacement like you, and has 397whp on whatever dyno.

This post is not at all a downplay, in case it comes off like that. I can only hope to have a car that strong. It is more of a post thinking that you can squeeze more out of your setup. Just well wishing, as I am sure you will pursue more power with your current setup anyways (you will get the itch).

May I ask if you are at sea level?

[BaconBait]

No worries Seerlah.

Link to Dougy's thread

There's 3 big differences between Dougy's motor and mine. 3651 cams vs BobQ purple intake cam, SEM intake manifold vs stock AEB, and 75mm throttle body vs stock ATW (pic 75mm/S4/ATW), all of which will give him more top end. Other than that, Mark at Autospeed tuned both cars on the same dyno at sea level +5 feet (the shop is towards the bottom of a small hill ).

[Seerlah]

I just noticed, 28psi on pump gas? lol. Must be fun! You hit 21psi before 4k, which is a plus. Either way, nice setup.

[BaconBait]

Needs to get me some of that fancy methanol stuff before summer hits.

[BaconBait]

Going back to the Dougy vs my tuning, his was also tuned off the MAF, where mine was tuned off the MAP. Not sure what kind of difference that would make. There is some issue with the MAF on my car and the readings are all over the place.

[AudiA4_20T]

Honestly everyone loves to criticize. You're putting down some solid numbers on pump gas. Car must be a monster good luck

[marty was here]

ooooooooooo shit craig, cant wait to see the car in person!

[034Motorsport]

Since I don't like teaser threads, here's my built thread.

^^^ Hahaha, I like your style.

Build looks great. What manifold and TB are you looking at in the future?

[SleeperAvant]

Bacon, nice build! What gear were the dyno runs done in, 3rd? Awesome powerband.

[Dan[FN]6262]

very nice

[BaconBait]

ooooooooooo shit craig, cant wait to see the car in person!

I might make you wait till the body is done. Everyone else can stop by anytime they like.

There's an Englishtown meet in progress on EA. It would probably be best to just meet at the Spring Show N' Go. Still in the works.

What's the name of that tex-mex restaurant we always seem to go to?

^^^ Hahaha, I like your style.

Build looks great. What manifold and TB are you looking at in the future?

Thanks!

TB will be a 75mm. Not sure on the intake manifold yet. I don't want wind up with an oversized plenum and/or short runners and end up losing power on the low end. I'm trying to find the thread from the intake manifold comparison that was done a while back. Unfortunately dyno sheets and specs of each manifold may have been on EliteDubs, which has gone the way of the Dodo.

Bacon, nice build! What gear were the dyno runs done in, 3rd? Awesome powerband.

I didn't really bother asking what gear. I was just really excited to get my car back.

very nice

[jaychen]

Need heaps more hi res pictures of your engine bay and turbo setup etc !!

[Poopie]

is this what you were looking at?
http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthrea...est-Results***

[turbo kraut]

most if not all dyno runs are done in third....


craigs moving up... moved over to the zine

[BaconBait]

is this what you were looking at?
http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthrea...est-Results***

Not quite. I thought there was a dyno comparison with all of them as well.

most if not all dyno runs are done in third....


craigs moving up... moved over to the zine

Heh. I'm everywhere.

And I'm still looking for that damn camera.

[ZimbutheMonkey]

Not to be that guy, but I just looked it up and it looks like your turbo actually outflows the GT3582R by maybe 2 lbs/min. That turbo is advertised as spool like a GT3076R, but flows like a GT35R. And it seems true, going by compressor maps. I get bashed when I think people could be making more power, but there is a person in the B6 section (dougyfresh) who runs a standard GT3076R on pump gas (not sure what boost), ASP tuning like you, 2.0L of displacement like you, and has 397whp on whatever dyno.

This post is not at all a downplay, in case it comes off like that. I can only hope to have a car that strong. It is more of a post thinking that you can squeeze more out of your setup. Just well wishing, as I am sure you will pursue more power with your current setup anyways (you will get the itch).

May I ask if you are at sea level?

Just got linked to this thread and thought I'd comment on Seerlah's question. From what I've seen, it looks like the GTX3076 is too much compressor for the size of turbine it uses. The GTX3071 appears to be a much better matched combo, whereas the GTX3076 chokes out. If you look at the turbine size on those GT30 frames, it's not really that big, it's actually smaller than a stage 3, which makes for good spool, but I think they choke out at 50-55 lb/min, which is what a regular GT3076 will flow.

Case in point, Garrett now makes a GTX3576, likely because they found that compressor was better suited to a GT35 frame.

All that said, BaconBait, you look like you have a wicked build. If you can wind that thing out to 8000 RPM, you have about 4000 RPM of useable power. Also, props for trying out a high compression build. I'm sure that makes a massive difference in real world driveability and response.

[Rosati]

Awesome Bacon

[BrucexL33]

Hey, how did you get your hands on a 2.0L? Looks pretty cool for a future project!

[viceprp]

Hey, how did you get your hands on a 2.0L? Looks pretty cool for a future project!

1.8 bored over to a 2.0

[BaconBait]

Just got linked to this thread and thought I'd comment on Seerlah's question. From what I've seen, it looks like the GTX3076 is too much compressor for the size of turbine it uses. The GTX3071 appears to be a much better matched combo, whereas the GTX3076 chokes out. If you look at the turbine size on those GT30 frames, it's not really that big, it's actually smaller than a stage 3, which makes for good spool, but I think they choke out at 50-55 lb/min, which is what a regular GT3076 will flow.

Case in point, Garrett now makes a GTX3576, likely because they found that compressor was better suited to a GT35 frame.

All that said, BaconBait, you look like you have a wicked build. If you can wind that thing out to 8000 RPM, you have about 4000 RPM of useable power. Also, props for trying out a high compression build. I'm sure that makes a massive difference in real world driveability and response.

Thanks. The head is built with a supertech valvetrain and the limiter is at 8K. It is a DD, but it's always nice to know that the power and range is there.

Awesome Bacon

Thanks!

1.8 bored over to a 2.0

Indeed. OBD1 ABA crank, scat 144mm rods, and wiseco 83mm pistons designed for the longer stroke of the ABA. If I did it over again, I might spend extra on rods and would definitely get pistons with valve relief cuts.

The only thing I want to add is an intake manifold and 75mm throttle. Still considering meth.

[M-Hood]

Just got linked to this thread and thought I'd comment on Seerlah's question. From what I've seen, it looks like the GTX3076 is too much compressor for the size of turbine it uses. The GTX3071 appears to be a much better matched combo, whereas the GTX3076 chokes out. If you look at the turbine size on those GT30 frames, it's not really that big, it's actually smaller than a stage 3, which makes for good spool, but I think they choke out at 50-55 lb/min, which is what a regular GT3076 will flow.

Case in point, Garrett now makes a GTX3576, likely because they found that compressor was better suited to a GT35 frame.

All that said, BaconBait, you look like you have a wicked build. If you can wind that thing out to 8000 RPM, you have about 4000 RPM of useable power. Also, props for trying out a high compression build. I'm sure that makes a massive difference in real world driveability and response.

Garrett just seems to be putting GTX compressor wheels on multiple frames, this is why there is a 2867 and a 3067, 2871 and 3071, 3076 and 3576. Basically doing what everyone else is doing too with the billet wheels. The turbine wheel tends to be the choking point which is why it is always better to go slightly larger with the turbine wheel then going too small.

The GTX3576 basically ends up being a 5862 wheel combo with a 76mm exducer on the compressor wheel which is pretty close in wheel size as a Comp 5862 which has a 74mm exducer.

[pac1085]

would definitely get pistons with valve relief cuts.

I don't know much about valvetrain stuff, but at what point do you need the valve relief cuts? I'm running custom wiseco's stoker pistons (probably the same ones you got..) which don't have them

[BrucexL33]

Thanks. The head is built with a supertech valvetrain and the limiter is at 8K. It is a DD, but it's always nice to know that the power and range is there.



Thanks!



Indeed. OBD1 ABA crank, scat 144mm rods, and wiseco 83mm pistons designed for the longer stroke of the ABA. If I did it over again, I might spend extra on rods and would definitely get pistons with valve relief cuts.

The only thing I want to add is an intake manifold and 75mm throttle. Still considering meth.

Just curious, what meth system are you considering?

[viceprp]

If you have the Inj and fuel system to support it, I would go E85 before Meth.

[thenj3]

we dont get e85 here but i totally agree with you.

[viceprp]

I know a guy out of NJ that runs E85 out of his little 9 second VW.. I'm pretty sure NJ have E85 ;)

[thenj3]

my friend runs it in his supra but he goes to ny and gets drums filled. i heard newark airport gets it too but it sells so fast. ive heard a few other stations get but its so scarce. hopefully it catches cuz corn juice is amazing stuff