Max's B5 A4 Race Car Build Thread

[silverman]

Yeah c'mon! It's Sept, 19th!

[034Motorsport]

Dead in the water until I recover from taking 11 days off on vacation. Priorities... =)

I've slowly still been picking up things here and there, but need to move in a couple months so that may light my fire to get it done. I don't want to have to tow the car.

The 2.7T Single Turbo has just taken up an immense amount of time. I still hope to have it ready this fall for some wet track days.

[RudeJude518]

Awesome, just pure awesomeness.

[034Motorsport]

A sudden turn of events; someone is hopefully picking up my V6 this weekend, which will give me enough money to finish the motor build on the 2.0L and get back on track.

Excited to get this thing done. The AEB head should be back from porting next week. Went pretty aggressive with it.

Will need to decide what to do about an intake manifold as well.

[034Motorsport]

Well, it appears it is the time for the A4 to be born.

My S4 was totaled yesterday, insurance check arrives next week.

Full green light to finish the motor and get the car up and running.

Look for some updates real soon!

[s3apra4]

My S4 was totaled yesterday

Um what?!?!?!

[SleeperAvant]

Um what?!?!?!

seriously, what happened??

[034Motorsport]

Cement Truck 1
B5 Audi S4 0

All that matters is that the S4 is gone, totaled, and myself and my friend are mostly ok, minor injuries. The motor and single turbo kit and everything are still good, it was a rear end collision, so I'll be removing everything. I had planned on selling the S4 in December anyways and swapping over the suspension and hood and such to the A4.

[s3apra4]

Cement Truck 1
B5 Audi S4 0

All that matters is that the S4 is gone, totaled, and myself and my friend are mostly ok, minor injuries. The motor and single turbo kit and everything are still good, it was a rear end collision, so I'll be removing everything. I had planned on selling the S4 in December anyways and swapping over the suspension and hood and such to the A4.

Well glad everyone is ok. Bring on the a4 build!

[034Motorsport]

Progress continues. 06A oil pump cog installed.

[034Motorsport]

Currently contemplating whether to just do a basic rebuild on the 01E 6 speed going in the car, or whether I should bite the bullet and go All-Road 3rd/4th gear (what we run in the Time Attack car). Regardless, will be doing diff pump and already has a high-bias center diff. Also going to take this time to install a rear LSD, but keep it open in the front.

The new timeline for the car is to have her up and running in February, but at a much gnarlier level!

I expect the A4 to be 50% stripped of the interior, potentially even with a fuel cell installed, by this time.

Running a standard 034Motorsport dual Bosch 044 surge tank with a Walbro in the stock tank feeding it.

Cams are still up in the air.

[034Motorsport]

Things are getting closer and closer.

Big thanks to Scotty@Advanced for helping me with a transmission. Going to be running a rebuilt 01E with an RS4 3/4 gear, which while not as close as the All-Road 3/4, will be an improvement over the stock ratios and help keep the 2.0L up in the powerband. The All-Road setup was just going to cost too much and was too much of a risk.

Also decided it's not feasible to keep the stock RS4 clutch, so it's time to move up to a Tilton cerametallic twin disc setup and a 034 Tilton aluminum flywheel. Good bye daily driving.

[silverman]

Anxiously waiting!

[terraflata]

, so it's time to move up to a Tilton cerametallic twin disc setup and a 034 Tilton aluminum flywheel. Good bye daily driving.

Is it that bad? I was under the impression this was the more harcore but streetable setup without forking out the cash for the Carbon Tilton clutch?

[034Motorsport]

Is it that bad? I was under the impression this was the more harcore but streetable setup without forking out the cash for the Carbon Tilton clutch?

Depends a lot on what you consider is acceptable in a clutch.

I've driven many clutches, single and twin, and given the area I live in it's just not terribly feasible to run an unsprung twin disc in 45 minutes of traffic each way, everyday. If you have a light drive or not much stop/go traffic, it's totally fine, but it's more of an on/off switch without that spring to soften the engagement and it can get tiresome commuting day after day in stop and go. Around town, you get used to it and learn it, just not much slipping available (but a lot more than the iron sintered).

The term "daily driving" gets tossed around a lot; this car isn't going to be much fun to DD even with an easy clutch. The aggressive twin disc and very light clutch/flywheel assembly makes 1st gear engagement even more difficult, but of course makes rev matching and such an instant response.

[034Motorsport]

Things have been delayed a bit once again because I've been spending too much money on my new A3 VR6.

However, the new transmission from Advanced Automotion is in transit.

Engine harness is pretty much complete as well. Still trying to decide what to do about cams.

On other news, we can finally share the latest power update from our 2.0L Time Attack motor that I am copying; over 600whp with a Precision 6262 and full boost by 4000rpm, pretty much the same powerband as my 2.8L V6 with a 6262. This shows you how much a proper and efficient manifold design can improve stuff, although running A8D fuel sure helps.

[stunner247]

Big thanks to Scotty@Advanced for helping me with a transmission. Going to be running a rebuilt 01E with an RS4 3/4 gear, which while not as close as the All-Road 3/4, will be an improvement over the stock ratios and help keep the 2.0L up in the powerband. The All-Road setup was just going to cost too much and was too much of a risk.

Just curious as to why the allroad trans was going to be so much more then putting rs4 gears in? I run an 01E with my 2.0l and was thinking of tracking down an allroad trans to help with the gear ratio's, but also up for rs4 gears if that is a cheaper way to go.

BTW, love the build Max and I feel your pain with dailying the twin disk

[034Motorsport]

Just curious as to why the allroad trans was going to be so much more then putting rs4 gears in? I run an 01E with my 2.0l and was thinking of tracking down an allroad trans to help with the gear ratio's, but also up for rs4 gears if that is a cheaper way to go.

BTW, love the build Max and I feel your pain with dailying the twin disk

The problem is that the allroad gears require the allroad gear shafts as well, which basically means you need an entire donor transmission and it needs to be in very very good shape. They are pretty rare to find in very nice condition. The parts new are a total arm and a leg, and it is my understanding that the RS4 gears can be used on the stock S4 01E shafts, requiring only the gears. In the end we went with an RS4 3rd and 4th and an RS2 5th, can't remember what we did with 6th gear.

I had to make a decision about how far I wanted to go with the whole "do it once and do it right" philosophy, but realized that there wasn't much point in going to the allroad 3/4 if I wasn't also doing a straight cut 1st and 2nd, so if the RS4 stuff is still too tall, then I will have to bite the bullet and go all the way. I decided to skimp on the diff pump as well for now, I won't be needing it in the next year anyways, and could always add an electric pump (although just as expensive).

[stunner247]

Gotcha, thanks for the info. look forward to seeing how the rs4 gears work out for you...might go that way if it makes a difference.

[034Motorsport]

Gotcha, thanks for the info. look forward to seeing how the rs4 gears work out for you...might go that way if it makes a difference.

It will definitely make a difference as the stock S4 gears are simply too wide for the 2.0L, especially if you aren't running solid lifters. Right now the 2nd to 3rd shift just drops power too low. I don't want to have to wring it out to 8000rpm every time I want to drop into a good powerband for 3rd or 4th and the majority of the time on our tracks you are in 2-4th, especially my primary track Thunderhill.

The RS4 stuff isn't crazy shorter by any means, but it's definitely better than nothing and when a half second makes all the difference, that adds up over some laps. It's pretty much in between the stock S4 and the Allroad gears and is worth a couple hundred RPM.

On an S4, from 4200rpm to 6500rpm, the RS4 third gear gets to 6500rpm about a quarter second faster. Since I want most of my focus between 50mph 130mph, closer ratios mean faster times.

[un1ko]

Progress continues. 06A oil pump cog installed.

Max - Can't wait to see your build finished. So, you decided to go with a cast crank?

As for an intake manifold. You should go with something like this.



or maybe Issam can make you one of these.

[gmx]

Coming a long well. Then again, didn't expect anything less from you :P

What rear LSD are you looking at and not torsen type is it?

[UCFQuattroguy]

FWIW: I've been *extremely* happy with the OS Giken differential I've had in my A4 for the last year or so. Very smooth/progressive. None of the typical NVH issues most clutch plate diffs will give you because of the preload stack resisting breakaway during tight/slow turning on the street or parking lot.

[gmx]

It's not a torsen type diff is it?
Just read some of your posts on motorgeek.. what adjustable control arms are you running and do you have more room for adjustment to go further than -2.5?

[UCFQuattroguy]

It's not a torsen type diff is it?
Just read some of your posts on motorgeek.. what adjustable control arms are you running and do you have more room for adjustment to go further than -2.5?

The OSG is a clutch plate diff. As to what makes it "special" from others...search Google for "negative preload differential". That should give a decent idea how it works. Essentially, there's more to it than your typical cone washer, clutch, and ramp arrangement. Sets of interchangeable springs are used to control the progression of the lock (as opposed to preload itself), which allows for very low amounts of preload to be used (mine only has 10kg, or 22lbs). This virtually eliminates any of the binding, grabbing, etc you typicall get in slow/tight maneuvers. On the track, it gives you a very smooth transition from no lock to as much lock as you tune into it (clutch and ramp arrangement). You can use the previously mentioned springs in varying tensions to lock anywhere from almost instantly, to slow and progressive. I've retuned mine a couple of times. Once it's out of the car, it's VERY easy to take apart and swap springs around.

I'm running Stern arms, as they were the only ones I could find that were legal for SCCA SOLO II Street Prepared classing. I can get more camber if I use the "other" lower control arm mount point.

But, we digress. This thread isn't about my car. I was just throwing out another diff option for Max. IIRC retail is right at $2k. :-)

[034Motorsport]

Transmission is done, sitting in my garage. The motor got dropped off, FINALLY. Looking at around 2 weeks before it's back, and then the long block assembly starts.

That is a 2.0FSI crank, forged from the factory.

I'll be running just an enlarged AEB manifold for the next 4-5 months, and then our own 034Motorsport Intake Manifold, should be out this summer.



For now I'm going to stick with a SPA exhaust manifold and 3" downpipe, into my 3.5" rear system I already have. Next year I will go to a tubular manifold and a full 3.5" downpipe. I need to get used to the car on the track so I'll be spending most of the next year around 350whp.

Coming a long well. Then again, didn't expect anything less from you :P

What rear LSD are you looking at and not torsen type is it?

FWIW: I've been *extremely* happy with the OS Giken differential I've had in my A4 for the last year or so. Very smooth/progressive. None of the typical NVH issues most clutch plate diffs will give you because of the preload stack resisting breakaway during tight/slow turning on the street or parking lot.

I'll be running a Guard rear LSD, clutch disc style. We've worked with them before and my Porsche friends like them a lot. I like how clutch plate/pack diffs feel in general, but the constant need to rebuild and how nasty on/off they get as they wear sucks. Luckily the Guards seem to not get so clunky as they wear, and this car won't see much mileage. I originally come for big lifted Jeep scene and running around daily driving a full on Detroit locker so a little bind is fine.

It's not a torsen type diff is it?
Just read some of your posts on motorgeek.. what adjustable control arms are you running and do you have more room for adjustment to go further than -2.5?

I'm running our 034Motorsport Race Upper Adjustable Control Arms, different than our Density Line Adjustables. They are spherical inner and outer joint and allow up to 3 degrees negative camber. We can also make custom ones for even more. As UCF mentioned, you can also use the A6 lower control arm hole to increase track and camber. We use this on our Time Attack car. It requires a CV joint spacer.

[stunner247]

I'll be running just an enlarged AEB manifold for the next 4-5 months, and then our own 034Motorsport Intake Manifold, should be out this summer.

Wow! kind of wish I didn't buy my SEM manifold. Will There be a comparison test between the SEM and this? I would like to see that.

[gmx]

... As UCF mentioned, you can also use the A6 lower control arm hole to increase track and camber. We use this on our Time Attack car. It requires a CV joint spacer.

Wow, never heard of this. Tricks of the trade I guess.

[gmx]

Any progress?

Just wanted to ask since, does anyone readily make the CV spacers and how thick should they be?

[Gumby]

Any progress?

Just wanted to ask since, does anyone readily make the CV spacers and how thick should they be?

http://www.034motorsport.com/chassis...s-p-19955.html

[034Motorsport]

Thanks Matt!

Progress is going well, the motor should be done end of next week. Since I'm not in a huge rush, I'm letting them take their time to save me a few bucks.

I actually think the first start should be within the next few weeks. I'm at the point where I just want to start breaking in the car, so I'm going to hold off on swapping in the built 01E transmission until everything is already running. Plenty of other things to deal with besides doing an entire driveline swap.

[Gumby]

i'm so stoked to see this thing up and running. i'd still like to build a b5 track car some day.

you'll have to get some updated pictures of everything when you get the engine all buttoned up.

[034Motorsport]

As always things get a little delayed, somehow the wrong guides got ordered, but back on track and should be less than a week now.

[Grip99]

I'll be running just an enlarged AEB manifold for the next 4-5 months, and then our own 034Motorsport Intake Manifold, should be out this summer.

Awesome...Interested to see how this flows

[Operator]

and then our own 034Motorsport Intake Manifold, should be out this summer.

Will you have a B7 option avail?

[spindoctor]

Awesome...Interested to see how this flows

Interested as well :)

[034Motorsport]

Shortblock and head are done. HELL YEAH!

Picking them up on Monday.

Finally managed to recover the pink slip too, that saves a ton of DMV work.

I don't think we have a 2.0TFSI intake manifold in the works, just too much stuff going on. The 1.8T Intake Manifold flows a serious amount; not willing to give out too much specific information until we get closer to release, but needless to say there are some gains to be had for sure.

[spindoctor]

That's what I wanna hear :) more teaser pics of the intake manifold?

[s3apra4]

Shortblock and head are done. HELL YEAH!
The 1.8T Intake Manifold flows a serious amount; not willing to give out too much specific information until we get closer to release, but needless to say there are some gains to be had for sure.

Is there a possibility that it will be ready around late may? Ill let you guys pull the Apikol IM off and put that one on while my car is at 034 right before Wuste!!!

[034Motorsport]

How exciting!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Before the shortblock gets put back together, I will need to test for valve interference. Even though I had the pistons custom machined, I still want to ensure that a combination of aggressive lift/duration cams and variable valve timing won't bring things too close together.

For the sake of getting everything up and running, I'll be running the stock AEB cams for now. This may also allow me to run a tubular exhaust manifold right from the start. I'll have to decide what is more beneficial to me at the moment; some cams or tubular exhaust manifold. They are both probably worth similar amounts of power, and both can be added at a later time.

Is there a possibility that it will be ready around late may? Ill let you guys pull the Apikol IM off and put that one on while my car is at 034 right before Wuste!!!

My inclination is to say no, it won't, but we do have a prototype here that we can use for dyno comparisons, etc, and perhaps will wind up on my car.