Max's B5 A4 Race Car Build Thread

[flynnr]

Also, if it wasn't clear before, I run 255/40/17 on all my B5's. 8" rim with 35 offset. Only the front needed a little rolling. Same contact patch as a B7 RS4 stock.

what is your gtf? 255 seems meaty for a b5


(or maybe i just need to step up my game?)

[gmx]

I ran 255 on a 8" wheel until one got punctured.
I wouldn't do it again with street tyres though - way too much flex.

The RS4 runs a 9"wide wheel...

[Raacerx]

what is your gtf? 255 seems meaty for a b5


(or maybe i just need to step up my game?)

Depends on the car, but of course I am not slammed; I am performance minded, I don't care much about aesthetics. The roads I tend to drive are nasty too. I'm about 25.5 or 25.25".

Everyone always cries that 255's are not possible; this is the only size tire we run on B5's here @ 034Motorsport. Extensive track testing with the Time Attack B5 A4 was done before it went widebody, and the 255/40/17 tire on an 8" wide rim was found to be the most ideal. Contact patch is huge.

However, GMX, while there is considerably more sidewall flex then a lower profile tire on a larger rim, this doesn't necessarily equate to better performance; at all. There are a variety of advantages (such as ride quality, the ability to conform to rough road surfaces, more rim protection, and better launching as well), compared to the slight difference in breaking point. A tire with less profile and less squirm will hold more lateral grip, but will release in a much more abrupt way.

We run 275/35/17 on the Time Attack B5, 9.5" rim.

I've tracked the 255/40/17 setup as well as pushing it well beyond the limits, in addition to running a ton of other rim and tire and sidewall combinations. I will ALWAYS run 255/40/17 on narrow body street B5's; the amount of data and back to back comparisons done by 034 in the earlier days is undeniable. I don't expect razor sharp reaction times in a 3700 pound front heavy pig. =)

[flynnr]

nice. ill have to go that route then

[flynnr]

I am more performance oriented as well. i would never 'slam' my car either. I was asking gtf so i could mimic your setup. If you get a chance to take a for sure measurement let me know!

[034Motorsport]

Right now, I am 25.3" front 25.5" rear.

[NeedingAnAudi]

I ran 255s on 17x8 et35/27 for a while. Only problem I had was turning, because I like being low.

[034Motorsport]

Stuff is coming together.

Got a full 06A shortblock. Just need a crank and some pistons, and I am good to go!

Big Thanks to the Integrated Engineering Crew, too! Juiced on my new set of Tuscan rods!

[SleeperAvant]

Nice, what turbo you going with Max?

[034Motorsport]

Nice, what turbo you going with Max?

Precision 5857, journal bearing, and a 38mm Tial WG. Probably just do a SPA manifold for the time being or possibly a PSI, and build a tubular manifold next year.

I think for the time being I will also just modify my big port intake manifold (further porting and maybe some horn work), or possibly just reuse the runners and fabricate my own. Either way, I'll run a 65mm throttle body body likely.

[A4Rob]

What throttle body?

[Raacerx]

What throttle body?

Not sure, but I have quite a bit of flexibility with the 034EFI Stage IIc. Probably just use a V6 for now?

Next news is that I decided I'm going to keep these Work Emotion CR Kai wheels. They are so sexy white, and while they aren't 9" or 9.5", I just picked up a whole bunch of Continental Extreme DR race tires (none of that DOT legal crap!) in 245/40/18 so the 8.5" width on the Work's will match the wear pattern on the tires (from our Subaru STi 25 Hour race car).

Next on List: FSI crank

[AudiForeman]

i just did a little reading through this thread and i approve lol. how do you find the time for all of the things youre involved in?

[NeedingAnAudi]

Precision 5857, journal bearing, and a 38mm Tial WG. Probably just do a SPA manifold for the time being or possibly a PSI, and build a tubular manifold next year.

I think for the time being I will also just modify my big port intake manifold (further porting and maybe some horn work), or possibly just reuse the runners and fabricate my own. Either way, I'll run a 65mm throttle body body likely.

Any possibility you will run the PSI mani? I've been eyeing it for about a year now

[034Motorsport]

i just did a little reading through this thread and i approve lol. how do you find the time for all of the things youre involved in?

Hah, I have a very understanding girlfriend.

Any possibility you will run the PSI mani? I've been eyeing it for about a year now

The SPA manifold is in stock and the price is pretty unbeatable, especially with the downpipe. However, the PSI manifold does look nice.

If I was going to be running a MAF element, then I would go for the PSI so I could run our XL turbo inlet hose. But I am MAFless so I do not need a "stock fit" style manifold really.

I'm still trying to figure out what pistons to use. Been trying to go JE since that is what I have on my S4 and my builder knows them well, but might look into trying something else.

[Wizard-of-OD]

Next on List: FSI crank

Max do you *need* the FSI crank? I have a few of the AZG CAST units I could spare for this project.

[034Motorsport]

Got some more goodies. Hancook race tires not pictured. Continential race take offs.

Max do you *need* the FSI crank? I have a few of the AZG CAST units I could spare for this project.

I don't necessarily "NEED" the forged crank, looks like there are some people are at the power levels I want with the cast unit, but it just seems like a good idea for peace of mind. They certainly are expensive though.

[nunya]

Take those seats out already would ya! :-P

--dillon

[Wizard-of-OD]

I don't necessarily "NEED" the forged crank, looks like there are some people are at the power levels I want with the cast unit, but it just seems like a good idea for peace of mind. They certainly are expensive though.

Send me an email in the morning. Ill show what we got.

[034Motorsport]

Got some exciting news about pistons! More to come in the near future! This is turning into quite the build, so I think I will be going FSI crank just because I already did premium rods and everything else. The pistons should be a great compliment to this project.

-Max

[SleeperAvant]

Pretty exciting stuff !

[034Motorsport]

Pistons have arrived, and I am excited.

Big thanks to JE Pistons!

I will be running their FSR (asymmetrical) stroker piston set in my 2.0L. Really excited about them because of their lighter weight (almost 20 grams per piston!!!) and their asymmetrical design, which decreases drag and friction losses on the up stroke of the piston!

82.5mm bore, just under 9.0:1, extra deep valve reliefs for variable valve timing at high rpm with aggressive cams.

With Integrated's Tuscan rodset and JE's new piston design, I am 40 grams lighter per cylinder compared to the traditional H-beam + normal piston style. That's 160 grams in the rotating assembly, which is seriously significant. A quarter pound!

[biglou]

damn , this is just as serious as my car !!! im building a 1997 M3 . My custom pistons are about 83 grams lighter than anyone else on market. good for 2000hp :). also using tuscan rods, IE said they are good for 1400hp on my car, well see lol. this stuff is alot of work and patience :( . how much is your car going to weigh?
good luck with everything !!!

[KMEL65STANG]

Been out of the loop for a sec! Did u pick this up from Gil?! I swear it's the same car when I went to pick up mike's Imola! This is a sick ride bro!

[034Motorsport]

Been out of the loop for a sec! Did u pick this up from Gil?! I swear it's the same car when I went to pick up mike's Imola! This is a sick ride bro!

Yep. We were going to build it together but he's got other plans now and I wanted to take it on by myself. Decided to keep the Work's too, they are on the S4 right now. =D

Unfortunately, this project is on hold right now while I finish the single turbo S4. My plan is to have the A4 broken in and tuned and ready for track testing in August. I have just about everything I need to get the motor built, and I still need to swap in my 01E 6 speed drivetrain and get some real suspension, but I've got it on full sphericals now.

I'll be learning how to tune on this bad boy too.

[SleeperAvant]

Wow nice, what would a setup like that cost (pistons only)?

[034Motorsport]

Wow nice, what would a setup like that cost (pistons only)?

The FSR piston set? Depends what bore/stroke/coatings but they aren't too much more then the normal JE pistons.

[SleeperAvant]

Ah, okay.

[silverman]

Are those new JE pistons available in 10:1 ?

And you keep bringing such good info to the table! Good luck with both builds.

[034Motorsport]

Are those new JE pistons available in 10:1 ?

And you keep bringing such good info to the table! Good luck with both builds.

Most of their pistons are available in custom compression ratios. Are you looking to run only race gas? 10:1 on the 1.8T is pretty aggressive, especially if your head has been decked before.

9.5:1 is great for 93 octane, just can't run quite as much boost but more timing.

[silverman]

In dream land... I plan on running a 2.0, meth and 93 and standalone. I just want more low end for daily driving while being able to bounce off the limiter. I pretty much thought 10:1 would be the highest to go on a "street" motor. This is all a dream but as we all do, I've been researching for 6+ years...Long before I had the car.

[rvca3112]

Any advancements in this project or still with the s4? What's going on with that thing? This thread is what I'm basing my build off of.

[034Motorsport]

Any advancements in this project or still with the s4? What's going on with that thing? This thread is what I'm basing my build off of.

Yep, unfortunately still with the S4, just trying to get everything finalized for the single turbo kit.

All the parts for the 2.0L are sitting here teasing me, but just no time to start getting a motor built. I really don't want to have the shortblock put together, and then have it sit for a month or two. But at the same time, the girlfriend is getting sick of the car taking up most of our garage...

My first priority is to get the 6 speed drivetrain swapped into the car.

Already have the Stage IIc ECU and the engine harness ready to go.

Once things start moving forward, they should progress very very quickly. Right now I'm trying to decide if I should keep the RS4 clutch for awhile and just hang out around 350whp (dunno if it will hold), or go straight to a Tilton setup. I would like to be able to drive the car on the street for the first year, in case the S4 is being worked on, but the ultimate goal is a race car so I want to skip forward as much as I can.

[Grip99]

Nice build/car, Max!

Cant wait to see this thing run!

-Pete

[morzechowski]

The ultra lightweight JE pistons are so noisy inside the block. The ultra lightweight aspect is awesome, but the noise is so annoying.

[nunya]

Yep, unfortunately still with the S4, just trying to get everything finalized for the single turbo kit.

All the parts for the 2.0L are sitting here teasing me, but just no time to start getting a motor built. I really don't want to have the shortblock put together, and then have it sit for a month or two. But at the same time, the girlfriend is getting sick of the car taking up most of our garage...

My first priority is to get the 6 speed drivetrain swapped into the car.

Already have the Stage IIc ECU and the engine harness ready to go.

Once things start moving forward, they should progress very very quickly. Right now I'm trying to decide if I should keep the RS4 clutch for awhile and just hang out around 350whp (dunno if it will hold), or go straight to a Tilton setup. I would like to be able to drive the car on the street for the first year, in case the S4 is being worked on, but the ultimate goal is a race car so I want to skip forward as much as I can.

I run a Southbend setup max. No issues. Its an OFE SS stage 4, well it was until they changed the names. Now it may be a stage three. Not the easiest to drive but also not an on off switch. I think the new part number is K70205-SS-TZ-SMF, good for 425 ft/lb's. Much cheaper then the tilton setup too. Southbend rebuilt mine for $175 i think.

--dillon

[034Motorsport]

Nice build/car, Max!

Cant wait to see this thing run!

-Pete

Thanks Pete! I basically forgot about it the last 2 months because of the S4, but now the pistons and rods and bearings and valvetrain and everything else is just staring at me from my sun room...beckoning for me to build it!

The 06A block is ready to go, and the AEB head has already been Stage 2 ported.

The ultra lightweight JE pistons are so noisy inside the block. The ultra lightweight aspect is awesome, but the noise is so annoying.

I consider normal JE pistons to be one of the noisiest pistons out there, but never had any issues with them; they just seem loud. I'm not surprised that the FSR's are even louder, but this is a race car so I'm not concerned about engine noise; I'm sure it will be drowned out by the lack of sound insulation and a short 3.5" side exit exhaust!

Are you running them Mike? Can't remember.

I run a Southbend setup max. No issues. Its an OFE SS stage 4, well it was until they changed the names. Now it may be a stage three. Not the easiest to drive but also not an on off switch. I think the new part number is K70205-SS-TZ-SMF, good for 425 ft/lb's. Much cheaper then the tilton setup too. Southbend rebuilt mine for $175 i think.

--dillon

If it was a Southbend setup, I wouldn't think twice about just wearing it out. But since it is an RS4 pressure plate and I think a pretty basic S4 or Stage 1 or 2 disc, not only do I think the current setup won't hold +400whp, but it's just so so heavy. I really do not want to run a traditional style single disc clutch, specifically because of the weight; not even so much the power. The big huge 240mm discs just take forever to shift, and combined with the 01E, it's just way too slow for a dedicated track car.

I don't mind rough engagement, I used to have a twin disc on my S4, and eventually I'll end up with an iron sintered Tilton twin disc, which is a freaking bear to drive... If i had a proper Southbend in there, I'd deal with the slow shifting for now, but since the current clutch probably won't hold the power AND it is slow as hell, it has me thinking of following my primary motto of "DO IT ONCE, DO IT RIGHT!"

The Tilton is really not that expensive; the clutch itself retails for barely over $1000 (with hardware and billet TOB), leaving only the flywheel. Of course, I wouldn't expect it to last more then 5000 miles, but it should take years to put that kind of miles on the car (or maybe never).

I plan on stripping the interior sooner, rather then later, specifically so I don't get tempted to just build a street car. I want to get so far into this build that there is no turning back and no desire to cut corners.

[nunya]

I see how it is, you are saying i did it wrong! :-P

--dillon

[034Motorsport]

I see how it is, you are saying i did it wrong! :-P

--dillon

You're clutch is perfect for a daily driver!!!

I knew from the start what this car would be used for, and I'm learning my lessons from my B5 S4... There are lots of things I regret not doing in that build, and it taught me that you either go slow and pussy foot it, or you do it once and do it right and go balls to the wall!

Of course, balls the wall would be acid dipping and trussing the chassis... I don't think I'll be going that far hahaha, but something like a clutch, I don't want to mess around with, especially with a 5858 and its potential.

But on the good side of things, I just sold my MKII GTi and will hopefully have my other A4 sold soon, and then its time to get this show on the road. I'm still hoping to have things together by the end of August.

[SleeperAvant]

Update?