Recommendations Diverter Valve

[Propilot81]

I have a 05 1.8t fwd, I've read countless threads on diverter valves. That has helped me narrow it down to the ones I want. I plan on chipping the car with 1 or 1+ program. I've narrowed the diverter valves down to the forge 007, 008 and the apr r1. Need your opinions! and with the forge 007 either p or the pa? I know a lot of you may reccomend 710n due to cost but that isn't an issue.

[miggity02]

I had a 007 for years and it held up great in my B6 1.8t.

[onceover]

007 is great.

I've head that the R1 isnt very reliable

[Propilot81]

Now on the 007 what wld you guys go with the p or pa? And in some threads they say the diaphragm is better than piston. So I wasn't sure. Thanks for the input!

[diagnosticator]

A diaphragm DV is faster responding than a piston DV, and does not need any maintainence. Also, if using a diapragm DV, install the DV in the reversed from OEM orientation. That is the technically correct orientation for the flow, with the inlet air flow into the bottom center port, and the discharge air flow out at the side port. The small hose nipple for the control vacuum hose points up away from the ground in the reversed orientation.

[itsmatt33]

follow the install on a4mods.com

the PA or adjustable one isnt really necessary most of us just run the non adjustable and change the spring as needed

you can find 007 all the time in the classifieds

[Propilot81]

So I'm assuming the 710n dv is probably a good diaphragm to go to if it's faster responding. Sorry for all the questions. Just want top quality and performance. Appreciate the help!

[EErie B6]

710n is the way to go if you want a diaphragm model.

The Stratmosphere Hyperboost is supposedly better than the 007 requiring no maintenance if you prefer a piston type model.

[B6A4Dave]

I'm glad this thread was made, I was talking to some of my friends about APR R1 vs Forge 007, and they all tell me to go APR and that the 007 falls apart but this entire forum seems to indicate otherwise..

I'd love to hear opinions review.

[itsmatt33]

r1 is crap from what ive heard. if u prefer oem parts go 710n if you like aftermarket go forge 007

ive heard good things about the rs6 diverter valve not sure what its called but i know its not a 710n. old guy?

[Propilot81]

If the diaphragm is faster responding and can generally withstand higher boost levels when you start modding like a chip tune, then I might just go that route instead. Please correct me if I'm wrong and thanks for the responses.

[a4darkness]

The early versions of the APR R1 were no bueno. The diaphragms would collapse causing this mooooing sound. Many an angry thread emerged. Many a cattle reference was made.
APR eventually solved the problem but overall most that have run this DV report that it's good but not as solid as others (piston type). So for the cost, eh... skip.

I can't recall one instance hearing / reading / seeing anything related to a Forge DV falling apart. eBay knock off perhaps? Been known to happen.

Unless you're dead set on an aftermarket DV the 710N reversed is the way to go. They're inexpensive and perfect for when you're starting out. At moderate boost levels you'll be fine (example: basic flash up to big injector file). Yes, it can hold more but prolonged exposure to increased boost levels will cause it to fail quicker, especially if it's reversed. Case in point, my 710N reversed stopped holding full boost on a Revo I flash after about 8 months. So, I'd consider it a maintenance item that needs to be swapped annually but upon making this discovery I moved to a piston style DV, also reversed (Samco).

Right now 710N's are running $50-60 but are on sale here:
http://www.ecstuning.com/Audi-B6_A4-...145710N/ES581/
http://www.dbcperformance.com/06A145...06a145710n.htm

The RS6 DV is the 710P (06A145710P) and contains slightly different internals than the N... IIRC brass washer and a slightly different diaphragm? Debate on this one is: has stronger internals (than the N) vs was designed for a car running minimal boost levels (~8lbs). Some time ago I was considering this option but kept finding posts like this so I nixed it. That and since we run high boost that can be spikey, the N seems more appropriate.
http://www.audizine.com/forum/showth...=1#post1033122

By design, a diaphragm style DV should be faster while a piston style can withstand higher boost levels. So, there's your trade off. However, the difference in 'speed' is negligible granted you're not running a 007 with a spring meant for a BAT setup. In reality most of us eventually move to a piston DV to avoid the game of 'is my 710N starting to get weak or not?' or start running a larger setup that requires it.

[Propilot81]

Thanks a4darkness! That helps out a lot! Like I said before going to do the stage 1 or 1+, and eventually 034 HFC.

[03a4sport]

My 007 has been in for 75k miles and no issues here.

[Drew-B6]

A diaphragm DV is faster responding than a piston DV, and does not need any maintainence. Also, if using a diapragm DV, install the DV in the reversed from OEM orientation. That is the technically correct orientation for the flow, with the inlet air flow into the bottom center port, and the discharge air flow out at the side port. The small hose nipple for the control vacuum hose points up away from the ground in the reversed orientation.

I want to more about this, why in reverse? What benefit does it have and is there any problems doing it the normal way?

[a4darkness]

I want to more about this, why in reverse? What benefit does it have and is there any problems doing it the normal way?

History on DV reversal.

Excellent additional info on reversed DVs from diagnosticator, post 387-398.

[Drew-B6]

History on DV reversal.

Excellent additional info on reversed DVs from diagnosticator, post 387-398.

Thanks very helpful! I will try this with my setup... Sorry I come around the forums for a bit them I get deployed and I miss good mods!!!

[a4darkness]

No worries Drew. The mods miss you too but will always be here each time when you return. Stay safe on the next outing, and thank you for your service.

[Drew-B6]

Thanks a4darkness and diagnoticator!!! Your post are always informative, along with others on this forum. This along with face book are something I always check, I know lame... Also, what I am reading by turning your DV in reverse (diaphragm style) will allow for the DV to hold more pressure for longer right? That would be great as my K03 will boost to 21PSI then drops right off with the APR 1+ and lots of other mods. My 3rd and 4th gears are the best and will hold 21 PSI a little more that 1st and 2nd.

[kneel]

PM me i have a forge splitter DV for sale. Not posted yet though.

[olstyn]

Anybody got anything to say about the synchronic DV? Ever since I first heard about it, I've been curious, but it doesn't seem to be widely used. On the surface, at least, it seems like a cool concept, but I'm far from expert, so I'd like to hear some real world experiences.

http://synapseengineering.com/smf/index.php?topic=917.0

[a4darkness]

Thanks a4darkness and diagnoticator!!! Your post are always informative, along with others on this forum. This along with face book are something I always check, I know lame... Also, what I am reading by turning your DV in reverse (diaphragm style) will allow for the DV to hold more pressure for longer right? That would be great as my K03 will boost to 21PSI then drops right off with the APR 1+ and lots of other mods. My 3rd and 4th gears are the best and will hold 21 PSI a little more that 1st and 2nd.

At what RPM is is dropping off Drew? If you're seeing 21psi that's not bad but with a K03 we're never going to see anything impressive past 5k. Yeah, with a FMIC on a cold day it'll stretch to 5.5K but still tapering. Small turbo is small.

After reviewing Diagnosticator's comments, I realize how confusing this might sound. I'll paraphrase.

General
* a stiffer spring, or a spring with more pre load, will cause the DV to open later and close sooner, in relation to intake manifold pressure
* the byproduct of this is acceleration that's a tad less sudden and more smooth, granted there's enough boost pressure to force a reversed piston style DV open soon enough
* a piston DV reversed will require a bit more pressure to open the DV

Factory Orientation
* with the DV in the factory position, only the spring stiffness determines the DV's opening / closing behavior
* this is one reason the reversed orientation is functionally superior, as the characteristics of the DV are not solely reliant on the DV's spring vs the charge air

Reversed Orientation
* regardless of boost pressure, in the reversed position there is always a lot more force holding the DV closed
* this allows for the use of a light spring tension (compared to a DV installed in the factory position)
* combined with a light spring tension, the forces that open the DV are mainly generated by the boost pressurized air as the DV cracks open
* since the boost generated forces don't have to oppose a stiff spring force to open, the DV opens quickly
* then as the throttle is opened after a gear shift, boost pressure is reapplied to the DV aided by the closing spring force
* this closes the DV at the same rate that boost pressure increases in the intake manifold

TL:DR
Stock orientation is fine for either, relies on force of spring / rubber (diaphram) vs charge air pressure to open/shut.
Reversed is harder to open DV, yet also controlled by flow of boost air pressure
Reversed is quicker for a diaphragm style at low boost and will shorten it's life at higher boost.
Reversed for piston allows for a less stiff spring to be used and can increase responsiveness / acceleration + smooth things out

PM me i have a forge splitter DV for sale. Not posted yet though.

Neil to the rescue. Do you have any cool stuff for me?

Anybody got anything to say about the synchronic DV? Ever since I first heard about it, I've been curious, but it doesn't seem to be widely used. On the surface, at least, it seems like a cool concept, but I'm far from expert, so I'd like to hear some real world experiences.

Nice try Jenny.
Tell you what. Send me one of your universal application DVs. If it's the beans I'll write the most thorough review you've seen and everyone on AZ will buy one. Everyone. Even the 3.0 guys.

[kneel]

what kinda stuff you looking for Tom? email me: avantneil@gmail or pm me!

[a4darkness]

I have no idea. But I'll PM u anyway.

[Nevr]

I hated the way the R1 sounded. like someone exhaling right in your ear. Held boost fine though. i would recommend 007, but also would consider the 008 if more people had anything to say about it.

[coolgraymemo]

History on DV reversal.

Excellent additional info on reversed DVs from diagnosticator, post 387-398.

So... Should a Forge 007 be ran in the reversed or standard position?

[a4darkness]

Whatcha runnin and what spring is in the 007?

[coolgraymemo]

Flashed K03 yellow spring.

[a4darkness]

I'd reverse it. Ran one for a while and swapped it around, seemed to make a nice difference. Took my ECU a few days to adjust to when I replaced the ailing 710N for the Samco. Minor of course, but it did change a bit.

And come to think of it, for the 007 I ordered a rebuild kit and was really surprised at how worn out the spring was. I have no idea what the life expectancy on a DV spring is but for ~$15 it can't hurt. Hope it works for you too.

[olstyn]

Nice try Jenny.
Tell you what. Send me one of your universal application DVs. If it's the beans I'll write the most thorough review you've seen and everyone on AZ will buy one. Everyone. Even the 3.0 guys.

I am not her. I have no affiliation with any manufacturers, and am genuinely trying to gather some (hopefully) useful information, but thanks for your insulting assumption.

[screwball]

Lots of current DV testing here, although it's provided by someone who's selling a DV they market.

http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthrea...ter-for-my-1.8

And the madmax DV that had the best results out of those tests: http://www.mcpii.com/MadMaxDV.html

[MikTip]

I have the Baley, with its composite piston...

I have the 710N

I have the Stratmo with its aluminum piston

I have the 710P!

Currently the 710P is installed and its operating just fine!

Ive owned the 007 and messed with the springs, only to go back to the 710N.

Much depends on your engines state of tune and boost levels your producing....

[ricekikr]

If using stock turbo, I'd say stick with the oem one. Mine holds 30psi just fine*. Not sure if it'l last though.


*It holds the boost but there's turbo flutter with the Forge 007 when boosting 25psi or more on BT/BAT. Currently using a 007 + oem DV (yup 2 dv at the same time) boosting and holding 30psi all day.

[kneel]

If using stock turbo, I'd say stick with the oem one. Mine holds 30psi just fine*. Not sure if it'l last though.


*It holds the boost but there's turbo flutter with the Forge 007 when boosting 25psi or more on BT/BAT. Currently using a 007 + oem DV (yup 2 dv at the same time) boosting and holding 30psi all day.

2 DV's?

[ricekikr]

2 DV's?

Yup because one couldn't handle 25+psi (5857 turbo), it caused turbo flutter. Added a 2nd one (007 + oem) = no more flutter. Both DV's are also vented to atmo, so that probably affected the DV's performance. Below 25psi there was no flutter with a single DV vented to atmo (007).

Basically a single 25mm outlet couldn't release the air pressure quick enough. And this was with the lightest spring.

[a4darkness]

I am not her. I have no affiliation with any manufacturers, and am genuinely trying to gather some (hopefully) useful information, but thanks for your insulting assumption.

Oh good lord man. Is this your first day at the internets? Do I have to change my sig back to include a disclaimer about sarcastic comments?
Miktip actually shows up in a thread and here I am looking like an assjacket. Now Neil is gonna keep mocking me about this until he gets distracted by another suspension upgrade. This is just great, thanks a lot.

I actually spent close to an hour reading up on those DVs as they look like some serious kit... hence why I was able to determine who you really were. Now send me a free sample Jenny.

Lots of current DV testing here, although it's provided by someone who's selling a DV they market.
http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthrea...ter-for-my-1.8
And the madmax DV that had the best results out of those tests: http://www.mcpii.com/MadMaxDV.html

Very cool, I never get tired of seeing ppl trying to improve parts with long standing designs. Now I gotta read all this too.

Currently the 710P is installed and its operating just fine

I'm starting to think the guys who were popping 710Ps back in the day had a bad batch or something. If you AND John are running one... curious. So very curious.

[boostedAvant]

Jeeze Jenny

[kneel]

Yup because one couldn't handle 25+psi (5857 turbo), it caused turbo flutter. Added a 2nd one (007 + oem) = no more flutter. Both DV's are also vented to atmo, so that probably affected the DV's performance. Below 25psi there was no flutter with a single DV vented to atmo (007).

Basically a single 25mm outlet couldn't release the air pressure quick enough. And this was with the lightest spring.

my forge splitter dv wasnt holding 25+psi so i swapped it out for the Forge 004.....no issues now

[kneel]

Oh good lord man. Is this your first day at the internets? Do I have to change my sig back to include a disclaimer about sarcastic comments?
Miktip actually shows up in a thread and here I am looking like an assjacket. Now Neil is gonna keep mocking me about this until he gets distracted by another suspension upgrade. This is just great, thanks a lot.

what did i do?

[vhstejskal]

I had the APR DV and found it good in terms of holding pressure responsiveness. Mind you the only thing I did not like about it was the goose honk between shifts; it was really annoying... I tried the APR DV in both the traditional and reverse orientation and both found me looking for water fowl under the hood; not to mention I checked and the valve did not have tears in the membrane.

I switch to a Forge DV and would never look back. Although not as responsive as the APR one because of the diaphragm vs. piston design but it holds pressure very well and has been easy to maintain when I've needed to.

Just my 2 cents I would either go with what Thomas (A4Darkness) recommended with OEM replacements or go Forge...