Add another to the list....P0021 code..... :(

[jhmotard]

To start off....153k miles, no tune, only the resonator removed, i do have a short chain rattle at startup but it doesn't sound bad compared to some on here.

So, I fear the worst has come to my beloved Nogaro '04 S4 and it all started friday night. I was on the highway doing 65mph in 6th and dropped to 4th with the accelerator on the floor to about 85mph then back to 6th and coasted. It seemed it had lost power but no codes came up and still ran/idled fine. Saturday I was out running errands and came to a stop light. All of a sudden the idle dropped to 500rpm, it ran like ass and sounded like a muscle car. No code popped up. Went to head out later in the day, enough for the engine to cool completely, still ran like ass and got about .5mile down the road and the CEL came on (P0021 "A" Camshaft Position - Timing over advance or system performance bank "2"). I died!!

Is this the code for replacing the adjusters, meaning the motor has to come out? I don't know if I can justify dropping that much money, guess I should have done more research before buying this one...

Please help!

[jhmotard]

The hardest part is that I'm the second owner and the guy that owned it before me was older and took extreme care to it. He had all the service records, never drove it in winter and by the looks of the interior/exterior, a lot of people admire how clean it is or still is after that many miles. When I got it I kept up on the maintenance and kept it clean all the time. I'm so heart broken right now, I love this car but I fear I may have to part with it if I have to dump a couple grand into it!

[beemercer]

wow 153k miles... iirc a member here, hazziar, replaced an adjustor with the motor in the car. The adjustor itself is $600 I believe, so it doesnt have to be a death sentence. Now consider if you need a clutch you can combine the two and ameliorate some of the cost.

[B6JoeS4]

Well 153k is up there. Motor pull time

Or sell as mint and get a GT3

[jhmotard]

beemercer - The adjuster is the on the end of the camshaft, right?? If its a guaranteed adjuster replacement then I would fix it. I however do not need a clutch now. I would like it to last another year until its paid off, then I would easily justify dumping more money into it. I love this car!

Joe - GT3?! Porsche?! Your kidding!

[Lefthook]

this thread should serve as a warning to people who are considering buying an 80k+ mile used s4.

If a 2000-2500 repair bill is a make-or-break deal, DO NOT BUY ONE OF THESE CARS. I'm not saying that to be elitist or a dick, but there are drawbacks to driving a 300+hp AWD lux/sports car. When stuff breaks on these things it isn't cheap.

fast/cheap/good. You cannot have all 3... pick two.

I dig the living crap out of this car. My wife about had a melt down about the amount of money I was spending on repairs/maintenance/upgrades last year so I took her down to the Subaru dealership and drove a WRX - a new WRX was similar in cost to my b6 S4. With the cost of maintenance as I had estimated, the higher payment was about equal, as I explained to her, so she was in favor of trading in the s4 for the WRX.

Until we test drove it. You could see on her face that she wasn't impressed with the drive in the Subaru, and when we got back, we talked about it. "it just isn't as nice..." she said.

Light bulb on. Since then she hasn't complained about the cost of maintenance a bit... she understands the equation.

[Nitro1]

Holy crap...same story with my wife. She kept questioning the maintenance, the upgrades, the Audi....I finally let her dive the S4 Avant to Moab (ALONE) to meet me and she gets out of the car after driving that Canyon road into Moab with the biggest grin on her face. She says "You must keep this car...it is the most fun EVER!"

Completely agree, many people think that when buying this car, that by not seeing a lot of service receipts means the car was flawless....WRONG WRONG WRONG!! If I was looking for an S4, I would want to see a stack of service papers showing that the min something went wrong, it was addressed. I have saved everything from my car...I mean every receipt, service....everything but gas receipts. It really is the only way I would buy one of these cars. IMO..Carfax doesnt mean crap. However, if I see a gap in the Oil change records....even one...I would run away.

I'm not saying that being late on an oil change can cause the timing chain issue, but I can say that it doesn't help.

[jhmotard]

I want to keep this thread going, a reference for me and you AZer's. Any help would be grately appreciated and in return I will make a video and hopefully a stickied DIY on how to replace the adjuster/housing/tensioner for bank "2"(driverside).

Since I parked the vehicle saturday night with the CEL on(P0021) I still decided to start it to see if it was acting up and to my luck it was not. Still some slight chain rattle at the initial start but nothing out of the ordinary, after that it ran/idled perfectly normal. Not drop in idle and didn't sound like a muscle car. I drove 1.5miles to work and parked it, scanned the computer and got the code(P0021), cleared it and started the engine, slight chain rattle then ran perfectly normal and no light came on. It was also time to top off my oil so I added 0.5qt Rotella T6 and 3/4 can of Seafoam. 1 Seafoam can is good for 10qts but I didn't want to thin out the oil too much so I added a little less. Started the vehicle with NO chain rattle whatsoever and ran/idled perfectly normal. Drove home and the CEL did not come on.

I have been doing alot of research and have come down to the decision of replacing the tensioner and camshaft adjuster but I need to figure out if I can get to the guide and I'm trying to figure out if i need to replace the control housing. From the looks of it, it might also see oil pressure and I don't know how to test it.

I'm thinking about pulling everything apart before ordering parts that way I can figure out how to test the control housing and go from there. Any help or input is appreciated!!


This is a complete overhaul list of timing components. The number in between the parentheses is how many and the cost next to it is the cost of both, not each. Such as the cam adjuster shows 2, one for bank 1 and the other for bank 2. For both it is $975 but if your like me and only getting a code for 1 side then it would be half that. This scared me until I punched in the part number on www.genuineaudiparts.com, phew!!!

079109087N — Cam Adjuster [2]- $975
N91086201 — Cam Adjuster Bolt [2]- $14
079109210H — Control Housing [Bank 1]- $650
079109204L — Control Housing [Bank 2]- $650
079109092B — Control Housing Gasket [Bank 1]- $3
079109091B — Control Housing Gasket [Bank 2]- $3
079109218D — Chain Tensioner [Bank 1]- $100
079109217J — Chain Tensioner [Bank 2]- $100
079109510E — Tensioner Chain Guide [Bank 1]- $35
079109514B — Chain Guide [Bank 1] $30
079109513C — Chain Guide [Bank 2]- $35
079109469AD — Center Upper Chain Guide- $32
079109469AA — Left Lower Chain Guide- $32
079109510F — Left Lower Chain Guide- $30
079109507G — Lower Chain Tensioner/Guide assy- $58
079109467AE — Lower Chain Tensioner- $44
06E905163 — Cam Position Sensor [Bank 1& 2]- $13 x 2 = $26
079109293C — Hydraulic Controller Seal [2]- $6
079131120A — Coolant/SAP Gasket- $8
079109139A — Center Lower Gasket- $5
079131120B — Kombi Valve Gasket [Pipe 2 timing cover]- $3
078131120K — Kombi Valve Gasket [Valve 2 valve]- $3
079105193 — Diamond Disc Washer [2]- $130
035906149A — Fuel Injector Seal Set [8]- $10
077129717Q — Intake Manifold Gaskets [2]- $70
077198025B — Valve Cover Gasket Kit [Bank 1: 1-4]- $55
077198025C — Valve Cover Gasket Kit [Bank 2: 5-8]- $55
079115111A — Oil Filter Housing Seal [Double O-Ring]- $4
N90959701 — Oil Filter Housing Seal [single O-Ring]- $3
********* — Rear Water Manifold O-Rings [2]- $2

Chains- Optional
079109229 — Timing Chain Center Upper- $98
079109229D — Timing Chain Center Lower- $88
079109229K — Timing Chain Upper Left- $98
079109229L — Timing Chain Upper Right- $98

[B6JoeS4]

Get in touch with JHM. They are working on kits with beefed up guides. Not sure if it's ready yet but I'm pretty sure it is.

I would not drive it, or start it. It's a ticking time bomb and once that adjuster lets go, the motor is done. I would replace the chains. They have 153k on them for peats sake.

[Lefthook]

Get in touch with JHM. They are working on kits with beefed up guides. Not sure if it's ready yet but I'm pretty sure it is.

I would not drive it, or start it. It's a ticking time bomb and once that adjuster lets go, the motor is done. I would replace the chains. They have 153k on them for peats sake.

if you're doing the complete overhaul with cam adjusters and everything, I would tend to agree. You're spending a lot of time/money on the overhaul, doesn't make sense to cheap out on he last 400 bucks when you're already spending 4 or 5 grand. I'd wager that those chains are near zero wear item and it's not unrealistic to think they'd last 300k+ miles, but if you're already in there and a year later one of the chains breaks you'll want to blow your brains out for not spending that extra 400 bucks.


However... you have to ask yourself if it's really worth spending the 5k on rebuilding the timing components when you'll still have a 150k mile bottom end. I'd be inclined to look around for a low mile motor out of a wrecked car....

[audivoodoo]

Im not sure if you have seen this 'video' made by Hazziar, in the DIY section. It shows you don't HAVE to pull the motor fix this. Unless you plan on doing a full rebuild it might be worth it to just fix this bank and get yourself back on the road. Just an option. Good luck.

http://www.audizine.com/forum/showth...Vid-and-Part-s

[speedfreek04]

FWIW, Your code and symptoms are EXACTLY the same as what we experienced with our '04. Sadly, mine only had 87k miles, a shitty PO, and the warranty expired 6 DAYS (!!!!!) before we were able to get it diagnosed. FML, twice. I spent a month, with the car sitting in the driveway, trying to decide whether to just replace the bad adjuster and hope for the best or rebuild the whole timing set. In the end, I simply could not do all of that work to just replace the one or two parts, knowing the rest of it was still almost 90k old and likely just badly worn. I happened to get real lucky and found a new long block for just $2k over the cost to just rebuild the timing set, and went that direction instead. Now I know its all new, and I'll know it was broken in and driven properly from day one. Still a LOT of work and a LOT of money, but it'll be like a new car when its done. Now, having pulled the old nasty motor, and having seen just how much they can deteriorate, I honestly wouldn't really consider pulling the motor and spending 5k to only do the timing set. Especially not with 150k on the clock. My gut tells me to suggest you do the one side only, make it run right, and keep an eye out for something else, unless you're willing to throw even more at it to make it all new like I had to. Granted, my situation might have been a little different also as we owed more on the car then what we could have sold it for broken by a long shot. That kinda limited our options. Keep us in the loop, I'll give you any help I can.

Brendan