Black Forst Catch Can Arrives!! Check out the unboxing and my soon to be install. X-P

[DavidB8]

Black forest will be releasing the first Oil Catch Can for the Audi 2.0T B8 Platform soon. I managed to get my hands on a final production model to install on my car and help out with a DIY and some photo's. Now this is far from the cheapest mod I have bought but I figured for the good of the car and decreasing carbon it's worth it.

So here is the unboxing. Note the lack of instructions ;) not to worry by the time you get yours they will be included.

From the start, the box (note special print tape)



Box Open.. Oh the the suspense. Oh No another Box..



Second Box open. Hey who knew peanuts where the secret to soaking up oil.



FINALLY!! Stuff..



Impressive right.. Oh you want more..



More? OK..

Here's a shot of the can and braided Hoses. Nice stuff.



Here you can see inside the Can



Now I have seen little sight window on cans to check oil level but considering the mounting you'd never see it. So it makes sense that this one has a screw in dipstick to check the level.



A quick shot with the mounting bracket attached. It's designed to mount to the front cross member in front of the engine just to the left of the drivers head light. It uses a riged mounting bracket to clamp on to the brace.



Now one of my favourite feature of the can A BOOST TAP! It includes a threaded plug in case you don't need the tap but that's one less item you need to buy when adding something like the awe boot gauge.



Now in this picture you can see some heat reflective sleeving. I don't know if I'd want to use this if I didn't have to, would be criminal to hide those hoses and fittings. You can also see the drain hole in the bottom of the can here.



Here you can see the can with the drain plug partially installed.





Here are the basic attachment parts left after the desk assembly



Couple random shots





Not to worry when I do the install I'll be braking out the real camera. I just wanted to get some quick pics off for the board:



Unfortunately the parts came later than I was hoping and I am out of town for a few days this week. Not to worry though it's high on my list and will get installed later this week so the final instructions, fit and finish and review can be provided.

All I can say is it's about time someone got one of these out for us and so far all the hardware looks great.

[seph]

Nice, i have been waiting for them to release this. One of the first things i am putting in my car when it arrives.

[Beast]

let us know if its good

[DavidB8]

OK I did my best to start but it's just snowing to hard. I could have kept going but the snow was getting into the engine compartment pretty good and making it hard to take good pictures.

Some thoughts though. Wow that's a lot of oil flowing through those lines. I wasn't ready for it and got oil all over my hands and some on the head. I'm sure it will burn off OK but OMG!!

It's no wonder there is so much oil in the intercooler. All the oil being pushed through the turbo is nuts. So far though I managed to get my boost tap in place and remove the turbo PCV line and replace it with the new hardware. I have half a hose left to remove and the new lines can be installed.

I think with instructions you can do this in a hour without to much trouble. Some thought went into the hardware, as the new replacement attachment for the turbo even had the notch for the metal gasket. So far no red flags. Although still not sure what the fancy metal clamp is for yet. I'm sure it will produce a use before I'm done. All in all I think maybe an hour for me to figure out the last of the install and photograph and it should be done. I'll start working on what I have soon while I wait for the snow to subside.

[DavidB8]

Here is a quick pick of the line I removed going to the turbo. Check out the oil.

[BlkS5]

So this does not fit the S5?

[DavidB8]

So this does not fit the S5?

Unfortunately not. This kit is designed for the 2.0 TFSI I would think if there is enough demand and someone with an S5 near BFI one could be adapted. The mounting bracket is done so that's a good start.

[DavidB8]

DONE!! Stay tuned, I'll start editing and posting the full install soon. Pretty sure I got it all installed properly (no spare parts left over). Most of the parts can only really go in one place so even without instructions you can stumble through. Over all when it's in and done it looks like it belongs there.

I would give it 90 out of a 100 on the fit and finish scale. There's nothing that I would see as an issue just a few very small things I think could make the install a little better (I'm nit picking though and sure the price would increase if they had to alter things). Overall though I'd recommend the product based not only the excellent build of the kit but based on the scary amount of oil I found in all the hoses I removed today. Although the drain hose plug is accessible I have a nice big syringe type thing that I can use to drain it right from the top where the dipstick is.

[DavidB8]

Teaser

[DavidB8]

Install:
So starting the install inspection and prepping a few parts. I'll start posting more pics and items as part of the original post.

Tools: (I'll add them as I progress)
You will need a 1/2" Allen Key. It's a biggie so check your tool boxes. It's used to tighten the drain plug.
7/16" wrench for boost tap or 3/16 Allen Key for block off plug and hose separator bracket (depends on if you will use the boost tap or block off Plug)
1-1/8" Wrench to tighten fittings to the catch can (I'm guessing most will be breaking out the adjustable).
T-30 Torx to remove the bolts for the Turbo line.
Utility Knife or similar device to cut turbo line from plastic inlet.
#5 Allen Key for Mounting Bracket
10 MM wrench for Mounting Bracket
1" Wrench for hose fittings (Or adjustable)

Supplies Recommended:
Thread Seal (Don't use loctite, you want to seal the threads not stop them from being loosened) I just used standard white tape style (picture to come)
Blue Loctite for hose separator bracket

Preparations:
Save yourself some time on the car and do some prep work in advance. You can prepare all the fittings and assemble the Can before you start.

Prepare the intake block off for either a block off or for a boost tap.




You'll need to get a 1/2" Allen Key and a 1-1/8" wrench (or adjustable to prep the can)

Once you have the fittings done with thread tape install the drain hose in the bottom of the Can:




Tighten it down until the O-Ring is compressed. Don't over tighten the fitting.



Next do the two fittings for the hoses:





The Car:

First step is to remove the engine cover. Simply grab each site and pull up. It's just clipped down and just requires a sharp pull to release the clamps:





Once the engine cover is taken off we remove the current PCV hose from the valve cover to the intake. Note yours may look different as I had the AWE boost tap in place.

You can see the two clamps shown below






Once the hose is removed go to the intake side and insert fitting with either the block off plug or boost tap depending on your requirements. As you can see from this installation the boost tap was used.



Next do the other side. You'll insert the last push in fitting then use the metal clamp to keep it in place. The clamp may be hard to close so use some large pliers to help if needed.



Time for the turbo side. Now I had my air box out during the install but I believe you can do this with it in place. It may just be a lot tighter.

Remove the 2 T30 bolts that hold the line onto the turbo. Watch for a metal gasket that you will need to reuse for the installtion.



To remove the other side you will need to remove two 30 Torex bolts, one holds the valve lift sensors and coils in place and the other holds the other end of the hose into the head. Once removed pull up on each coil until it releases then move across them gaining a bit more space. You will not be able to pull them all the way out but you should get enough height to remove the PCV line.



Once the line is out you need to remove the adapter that plugs into the head from the line. Simply put a small slit in the current line to release it.



The place the black block off cap onto the adapter


You can not put the adapter back in and put the coils back in. You should get a clicking noise when you put the coils back on. I did have one that didn't click but I know it was firmly in place so just make sure you double check them as you install them.

Here we are with the new part in place


Now we need to put the new turbo connection in place, make sure you place the metal gasket on. There is a notch on the mount that aligns the gasket to prevent you from putting it on backwards.



Tighten the mount back on place and make sure you use some thread tape.


Nows a good time to mount the catch can. The bracket is machined to fit in one specific spot so it's easy to figure out. It goes right over the engine sticker on the Radiator support:


A side view


Run the lines and just tighten them a few turns until your done. It will make it easier to adjust them to the position you need. Don't forget to put the heat shield on the line going to the turbo. The line will be right next to the manifold and you'll need the protection to prevent damage to the line.

Turbo Side:


Valve Cover:


Over view:


Last step after the lines are tightened down is to put the line separator clamp on. I noticed the line on the left was touching the A/C line during the install so the bracket makes most sense there. It pulls the lines together and leave some space to prevent rubbing.



If your worried about spacing for the cover with the lines check out the last photo.



There you go! All complete.

Ok so my thoughts. The running of the turbo line would have been nicer above the heat shield but I'm not 100% sure it would have fit. The fitting would need a bigger bend in it for it go that route. The other thing that got me was the jump from SAE to Metric tools. Would have been nice if the Allen screws where one of the other just for ease but not a big deal.

All in all a great setup. I don't regret getting it after the oil I seen and it looks right at home in the engine bay. For draining the oil I have a large plastic syringe with a plastic tube I'll use to suck the oil out.

The end..

[seph]

did you do this while it was snowing =].

Very nicely detailed DIY, once of the first things I'm putting in the car when its delivered.

[DavidB8]

did you do this while it was snowing =].

Very nicely detailed DIY, once of the first things I'm putting in the car when its delivered.

Yea i did it while it was snowing, well 90% of it. I had to stop at one point because I just couldn't get any decent pictures because the snow was getting in the way. Not my favourite moment in time but I was committed to getting this done and up on the board. I am a little glad the pressure made me get it done though. After seeing the oil in the lines I can sleep much better knowing it's not going into my intake any more.

A couple things to note, there are 2 lines feeding the intake as you can figure by the install. One goes directly to the intake which gets blocked off by boost tap and the other goes in via the turbo. When we are done there is only one line and it feeds back to the turbo. A good design if you think about it. If any oil does still make it through the can it's getting injected at the turbo so it still has to clear the entire intake system (turbo, piping, intercooler..) before it makes it to the intake. So the intake system will act as a secondary defence to lower the amount of residual oil that makes it in. If they had gone the other route and had the line feed directly into the intake the chances of oil making into the system would be higher. Not sure if it was by design or accident but it just makes sense.

FYI I plan on trying to use something like this to get the oil out of the can.



Here is the ebay listing. I got one just like it some time ago for another project (prefueling lines) But got sent something a bit better so I have this one extra.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Large-Syring...item27bf6cc1ee

[ChipB]

Looks like a nicely made product. But is there any evidence that installing a catch actually reduces the likelihood of carbon build-up on the intake valves?

[DavidB8]

Well since the major source of build up is being caused by the oil being injected into the intake it stands to reason you remove the oil you remove your largest contributor to the carbon build up. Since fuel doesn't flow through the intake there aren't to many other places the carbon could be coming from.

[Highlander1010]

Any updates on how this is working out for you David? I'm thinking of adding it to the ever growing to do DIY list.

[Beast]

Dave.. you really know your way around cars lol.

[elf_cruiser]

So wait - the oil that's captured inside the catch can doesn't drain back into the crankcase? Do you have to drain it manually?

[B8_Jim]

So wait - the oil that's captured inside the catch can doesn't drain back into the crankcase? Do you have to drain it manually?

How else would you know that it's working?

[seph]

So wait - the oil that's captured inside the catch can doesn't drain back into the crankcase? Do you have to drain it manually?

it wouldn't be a catch can if it didn't catch anything.

[elf_cruiser]

it wouldn't be a catch can if it didn't catch anything.

Thanks for that brilliant gem of knowledge.

What I'm saying is - why not remove the drain plug at the bottom of the can, attach a compatible NPT or SAE to hose barb fitting, and then plumb a hose to drain the oil back into the oilpan??
I mean as long as you're adding a bunch of hoses under the hood - what's one more?

[seph]

Was mostly joking but it's not really holding oil it's capturing carbon deposits and other stuff that you don't want flowing back into the engine, not the oil itself.

[DavidB8]

Sounds like a recipe for disaster. Dropping the oil pan, tapping a hole.. Then try and figure out how to stop the oil vapours from the pan from flowing back into the intake. Maybe a valve you can open when the cars not running to drain it but I don't see a way to have it do it automatically without some fancy plumbing.

[elf_cruiser]

Was mostly joking but it's not really holding oil it's capturing carbon deposits and other stuff that you don't want flowing back into the engine, not the oil itself.

Negatron. What goes into the can is vaporized liquid oil. Carbon deposits aren't formed until the oil hits the valvestems and gets baked. The whole point of the can is to keep the liquid oil out of the intake manifold.

@DavidB8 - I wasn't suggesting all that work. I'm suggesting looking for an existing plug or hose that could be used to dump the oil back into the engine. On my S5, there's a blank plug on the passenger side valve cover that could work. There's also the drain from the oil accumulator that goes back into the crankcase. The concept I'm suggesting is exactly what the factory does with the factory accumulator. It's not that complicated...

In any event - cheers for stepping up to do something about this issue, rather than accept it...

[B00sted20VUSP]

Well since the major source of build up is being caused by the oil being injected into the intake it stands to reason you remove the oil you remove your largest contributor to the carbon build up. Since fuel doesn't flow through the intake there aren't to many other places the carbon could be coming from.

While you are right about the oil causing some carbon build up, The main source is caused by the way the engine performs its EGR by the use of the cam adjuster to cause excessive intake and exhaust valve overlap. This causes hydrocarbons to form a layer on the valves while they are both open at the same time. Clean your valves and recheck, the carbon will still be there! The double edge sword here is that the EGR process is what Lowers Combustion Temps and reduces NOx so the ECM can advance timing for more power also causes the Build-up. The reason this is recently showing up is that the injectors no longer "wash" the valves due to FSI (which most of you already know) Nice install though looks good, but unfortunately will not solve the issue!

[Stubek]

I know another advertiser is working on one also, they used my car to test fit it.
Regardless of who makes it, I think a Catch Can is essential on our cars

[DavidB8]

While you are right about the oil causing some carbon build up, The main source is caused by the way the engine performs its EGR by the use of the cam adjuster to cause excessive intake and exhaust valve overlap. This causes hydrocarbons to form a layer on the valves while they are both open at the same time. Clean your valves and recheck, the carbon will still be there! The double edge sword here is that the EGR process is what Lowers Combustion Temps and reduces NOx so the ECM can advance timing for more power also causes the Build-up. The reason this is recently showing up is that the injectors no longer "wash" the valves due to FSI (which most of you already know) Nice install though looks good, but unfortunately will not solve the issue!

Some carbon build up? No offence but you obviously don't know what your talking about.

I was under the car earlier this week and just about had a panic attack. There looked like there was a serious oil leak on the car. After a few minutes of wiping up all the oil I inspected everything and remembered the can install. When I pulled the lines off so much oil came out it soaked the side of my engine block and collected on the bottom of the engine and cross brace. it also left a nice oil spot on the ground.

There is no way you can push that much oil into the intake and not have it be a major contributor to the problem. I'm not saying there isn't more than one source but don't go around discounting something because it doesn't suit your theory.

In the future you may want to try.. In my opinion.. I believe.. Another major source could be/is.. But don't come onto a thread and dismiss someone elses and a companies work with nothing more than your speculation/opinion/limited knowledge of the problem on this platform. If you had any real experience with the oil consumption through the intake you wouldn't have just spouted off like that.

Posts like yours cause more damage than good, making people think that something that can help improve a serious problem is useless.


OP. In regards to feedback. Unfortunately I don't have any real mileage on the car to provide any solid numbers on collection yet but I know what a catch can does based on it's use on previous cars. It's like saying is an oil filter worth in on our engine. We don't have to look at them to know what they do and how they perform. I'll post updates next year when I drive back across Canada just so we can see the efficiency of this particular can design though. I'm jsut as anxious as the rest of you. Fact is though this is not a great thing we are forced to add to our cars. There are so many other things I'm sure we'd all love to spend our money on than fixing Audi's design flaw. At the end of the day though these are our babies and we protect them the best we can.

[Bullwheel]

Maybe you have a more serious problem on your car if really so much oil flows?!
How much oil you refill between service? ...on my S5 I do not need it at all with service every 10000km.

I doubt that a 100$ catch can can solve the issue. Then it would be an easy fix for AUDi and sure already implemented.

Some comment to the install:
- Why you use teflon tape on threads if you have a o-ring seal?
- Such connectors what you used are normally used with copper or copper/o-ring washers to seal! Never O-rings alone! If you not overtight the connector and ruin the O-ring you will not secure the connector enough. Connectors for O-rings have a groove where the O-ring sits inside. That way you cannot overtighten the O-ring but get a secure locked connector and the right pressure on the O-ring to seal!

That said I see that the manufacturer of that product does not have basic knowledge on hydraulic connections but I should trust him to do a change on my engine....?????

[DavidB8]

Maybe you have a more serious problem on your car if really so much oil flows?!
How much oil you refill between service? ...on my S5 I do not need it at all with service every 10000km.

I doubt that a 100$ catch can can solve the issue. Then it would be an easy fix for AUDi and sure already implemented.

Some comment to the install:
- Why you use teflon tape on threads if you have a o-ring seal?
- Such connectors what you used are normally used with copper or copper/o-ring washers to seal! Never O-rings alone! If you not overtight the connector and ruin the O-ring you will not secure the connector enough. Connectors for O-rings have a groove where the O-ring sits inside. That way you cannot overtighten the O-ring but get a secure locked connector and the right pressure on the O-ring to seal!

That said I see that the manufacturer of that product does not have basic knowledge on hydraulic connections but I should trust him to do a change on my engine....?????

Your entire post shows a lack a lack of research of the 2.0 TSFI oil consumption problem and the fact that you did not read this thread. Your total ignorance on both accounts just stifles me and once again show just how much a person with keyboard and lack of respect for others damages the ability for these forums to be effective. The next time you want to spout off do your research and read the thread first. Good luck with trying to build a catch can like this for $100.

[Bullwheel]

Your entire post shows a lack a lack of research of the 2.0 TSFI oil consumption problem and the fact that you did not read this thread. Your total ignorance on both accounts just stifles me and once again show just how much a person with keyboard and lack of respect for others damages the ability for these forums to be effective. The next time you want to spout off do your research and read the thread first. Good luck with trying to build a catch can like this for $100.

I don't understand why you get so aggresive....other than you want to sell some of the oil cans...

I did not say that I'm the wise guy to ask about the 2.0TFSI engine....I just asked some normal questions.

My comments to the install are fact and everyone with a normal education in hydraulic will confirm this!
That was my reason to answer to that topic and show what lack of knowledge the manufacturer of that oil can must have.

Do some research and you will find better looking oil catch cans already long time on the market for about the price I mentioned....maybe it is 150$!

Another warning to members:
If such oil can can lead to this what was reported here earlier:
I was under the car earlier this week and just about had a panic attack. There looked like there was a serious oil leak on the car. After a few minutes of wiping up all the oil I inspected everything and remembered the can install. When I pulled the lines off so much oil came out it soaked the side of my engine block and collected on the bottom of the engine and cross brace. it also left a nice oil spot on the ground.

...then I prefer that I have carbon build up rather than slide out and crash due to my oil catch can caused a serious oil leakage!

[Stubek]

I don't understand why you get so aggresive....other than you want to sell some of the oil cans...

Partly because you come in here and talk about how your S5 does not have an oil consumption problem where as the 2.0TFSI has such a bad problem that there is now a TSB on it and people are getting cam shaft seals and other parts replaced under this TSB after only 15-25,000 miles.

Also, you go saying one of the best catch cans made for this engine is crap, like you would even know since you don't have the engine. Finally, your questions about teflon tape. Of course you would wrap any metal thread with teflon tape and even plastic thread, it gives a better seal. The O-ring is on one side, but the other side is threaded, thus the need for the teflon tape there, but just looking at the pictures, you should be able to tell that.

[Bullwheel]

Partly because you come in here and talk about how your S5 does not have an oil consumption problem where as the 2.0TFSI has such a bad problem that there is now a TSB on it and people are getting cam shaft seals and other parts replaced under this TSB after only 15-25,000 miles.

Also, you go saying one of the best catch cans made for this engine is crap, like you would even know since you don't have the engine. Finally, your questions about teflon tape. Of course you would wrap any metal thread with teflon tape and even plastic thread, it gives a better seal. The O-ring is on one side, but the other side is threaded, thus the need for the teflon tape there, but just looking at the pictures, you should be able to tell that.

Thanks for that answer! You actually say it that there are camshaft seals and other parts what need replacement....so that means a oil catch can is not the solution!

And then if you ask me to look at the pictures you should make sure you know what you are talking about! Look at them and you see that both ends are wrapped. In no oil circuit you use teflon tape....not if you are professional!
One side should be sealed with copper washers and the other one is a conical seal.....and both do not require teflon tape....and sure no O-ring!

But it is ok for me if you want to risk your life with a non Audi approved oil can what can cause excessive oil leakage and can lead to an accident.

Sort out problems and do not create new ones is my advice!

[Stubek]

Thanks for that answer! You actually say it that there are camshaft seals and other parts what need replacement....so that means a oil catch can is not the solution!

And then if you ask me to look at the pictures you should make sure you know what you are talking about! Look at them and you see that both ends are wrapped. In no oil circuit you use teflon tape....not if you are professional!
One side should be sealed with copper washers and the other one is a conical seal.....and both do not require teflon tape....and sure no O-ring!

But it is ok for me if you want to risk your life with a non Audi approved oil can what can cause excessive oil leakage and can lead to an accident.

Sort out problems and do not create new ones is my advice!

So, you won't use a "non audi approved catch can", but looking at your signature, you are using non audi approved K&N airfilter, wheels spacers (which they specifically recommend against and so do most tire shops), non audi approved springs. Hypocrit.

Second, on the first line you wrote, these engines BURN a lot of oil, not leak. The seals and other parts are being replaced because some of these engines burn so badly, they need 1qt of oil ever 800-1000 miles and everything dries out. These engines also have a problem with carbon build up on the valves and other areas. Two solutions to this are what you suggested above, the timing of both valves being open. Can't really fix that without putting a new engine in the car. The other solution is to reduce the amount of vaporized oil going back into the engine. This is what a catch can does. It uses various methods to separate oil, water, and air as the mixture passes through.

Catch cans don't cause leaks or accidents unless you don't empty the can often enough. David, I think you forgot to empty the can and that is why it was overflowing, but that is an easy thing to forget.

As for teflon tape, why would you use copper washers on one side and a conical seal on the other side on an oil related system vs. any other system? I looked at the instructions for four different catch cans (not all for audi) and none have that set up. This means that any company who makes a catch can has no

normal education in hydraulic will confirm this!

Also, I know the catch can I had on my 1993 Z28 used Teflon tape on both ends because that was the first time I had ever used the stuff!

[salmjo1]

With AN fittings, the bevel creates the seal. If it is an o-ring fitting, the o-ring does the work. If it uses a crush washer, again, the washer seals it. If you put teflon tape on any of these the tape only acts as a thread lubricant. This is fine, though a real thread lubricant such as the stuff from Russel's works better. You can get more torque on the bevel with less risk to the threads.

You use tape or a a liquid equivalent on taper threads, like pipe threads.

By the way, standard teflon tape, which is what that looks like, will dissolve in oil, so it will not be sealing anything.

I know these things because I have phucked up a lot of fittings. A whole lot. In fact, I think I have successfully screwed up every combination of hydraulic connection made by man.

I wish the catch can thing worked, but I have also heard that it is valve overlap as the main issue.... When other manufacturers are having issues with cars that are not direct injection, that says something.