Who has their meth nozzle pre-throttle?

[ricekikr]

How long did your throttle last? (miles under boost/meth)
How far from the throttle was the nozzle?
Meth mixture? (pure / 50-50 / etc)

Debating on better distribution or longer throttle life for a couple months already lol.

Searched, found throttle and bacon.

[rubberband]

Mine still works fine (ATW DBW not tuned for WM, used only for cooling IATs) I have about 1 year on it so far with no issues, 10K miles with 22psi.
comes on at 10psi. I spaced mine 8 inches at first then moved it closer to about 5-6 inches away.
use 50/50 boost juice and have used winshield wiper fluid in the past, not really much of a difference except the blue stuff kinda cruds up and blocks the nozzle.
no bacon required for this mod

[silverman]

... I gotta ask...Bacon?

[MIDNITEAUDI]

2000 ATW. I've got mine located right at the intercooler exit. I run -20deg windshield washer fluid 100% of the time. Running for 3+ years now w/ race tune 100% of the time. No issues with throttle. I did have to replace the pump once. I'm running it off the MAF comes on at 2.5v and full at 4v.

[ZimbutheMonkey]

I've been running about 6 in from the TB. I've had some issues with TB's shitting the bed, but I don't know that it's the methanol. I put a VR6 TB in recently and it had the same issues. I'll let you all know how it turns out.

[ricekikr]

I spaced mine 8 inches at first then moved it closer to about 5-6 inches away.

Why the move? Was there a difference?

... I gotta ask...Bacon?

There was a poll about this same topic. Result was, people love bacon.

2000 ATW. I've got mine located right at the intercooler exit. I run -20deg windshield washer fluid 100% of the time. Running for 3+ years now w/ race tune 100% of the time. No issues with throttle. I did have to replace the pump once. I'm running it off the MAF comes on at 2.5v and full at 4v.

Racegas = not daily driver? Low mileage? Why right at intercooler exit? I thought it was a bad spot, because it was turbulent.

I've been running about 6 in from the TB. I've had some issues with TB's shitting the bed, but I don't know that it's the methanol. I put a VR6 TB in recently and it had the same issues. I'll let you all know how it turns out.

Oh ok. We almost have the same symptoms, but you have meth. Weird..

[GetBoosted84]

2.5 years of the spray with two nozzles fogging the car. One pre-throttle body, one post. No issues.

How long did your throttle (body) last? Still on the same stock one after 2.5 years at 22 psi. 30k miles I guess?
How far from the throttle was the nozzle? Primary (pre-throttle body) nozzle is about 6" after the front mount intercooler exit.
Meth mixture? 50/50 with M1 grade methanol & distilled water

[ricekikr]

2.5 years of the spray with two nozzles fogging the car.

Thanks for the reply.

[Audiss17]

Mine still works fine (ATW DBW not tuned for WM, used only for cooling IATs) I have about 1 year on it so far with no issues, 10K miles with 22psi.
comes on at 10psi. I spaced mine 8 inches at first then moved it closer to about 5-6 inches away.
use 50/50 boost juice and have used winshield wiper fluid in the past, not really much of a difference except the blue stuff kinda cruds up and blocks the nozzle.
no bacon required for this mod

i have to ask i have the same engine and i am curious you run 22psi on stock motor, stock turbo? and witch wire did you connected the meth controller to? i installed a snowperformance stage 2 in july still was not able to figure it out the right way

[GetBoosted84]

Thanks for the reply.

No problem. Honestly I have yet to see someone who has broke their throttle body from a meth setup that is atomizing the spray of meth/water. Now I have seen people who have use meth in place of race fuel and run too much boost without logging the car and have smoked their motor. But that's a whole different subject :-).

[MIDNITEAUDI]

Racegas = not daily driver? Low mileage? Why right at intercooler exit? I thought it was a bad spot, because it was turbulent.

.

I run a racegas tune 100% for my daily driver. Preventing detonation is the best thing the h20/methanol does. Just like running 110 octane allows you to advance timing and get more power, meth injection does the same. You can run 87 octane like its 110. Octane rating is basically resistance to detonation. More resistance = higher octane. Timing advance is the best reason to do this mod, you can get a ton more power on a race gas tune, and it makes the car sound way meaner.
Mileage, do you mean gas mileage? I get slightly better gas mileage, with timing advanced I'm getting more power from the same amount of gas.
Turbulence is a good thing, it mixes everything better. If you really want to learn more about meth injection check out this forum http://www.snowperformance.net/forum...ays=0&start=50

[GetBoosted84]

I run a racegas tune 100% for my daily driver. Preventing detonation is the best thing the h20/methanol does. Just like running 110 octane allows you to advance timing and get more power, meth injection does the same. You can run 87 octane like its 110. Octane rating is basically resistance to detonation. More resistance = higher octane. Timing advance is the best reason to do this mod, you can get a ton more power on a race gas tune, and it makes the car sound way meaner.
Mileage, do you mean gas mileage? I get slightly better gas mileage, with timing advanced I'm getting more power from the same amount of gas.
Turbulence is a good thing, it mixes everything better. If you really want to learn more about meth injection check out this forum http://www.snowperformance.net/forum...ays=0&start=50

Please don't spread false information. Injecting at most 25% methanol into your system will not magically make it go from 87 octane to 110.

The basic calculation is (RON+MON)/2 which puts a 50/50 water/methanol mix at around 113 octane. Now combine that with your octane fuel (if you are silly enough to run 87 octane, you have fun with that). You are still not at 110 octane.

Now, you are partially correct about part of the reason why people use alky injection. They use it to reduce detonation (and lower intake temps). Now if you want to talk about octane rating, water has an infinite octane rating since it will not ignite. Also, water absorbs almost 2x more heat than methanol. The reason why people inject methanol at all is to ensure that they do not inject too much water into their system which will end up hurting performance. People do not inject methanol to increase their octane. If that is the reasoning behind doing it... there are quicker and easier ways to the finish line.

[MIDNITEAUDI]

Please don't spread false information. Injecting at most 25% methanol into your system will not magically make it go from 87 octane to 110.

The basic calculation is (RON+MON)/2 which puts a 50/50 water/methanol mix at around 113 octane. Now combine that with your octane fuel (if you are silly enough to run 87 octane, you have fun with that). You are still not at 110 octane.

Now, you are partially correct about part of the reason why people use alky injection. They use it to reduce detonation (and lower intake temps). Now if you want to talk about octane rating, water has an infinite octane rating since it will not ignite. Also, water absorbs almost 2x more heat than methanol. The reason why people inject methanol at all is to ensure that they do not inject too much water into their system which will end up hurting performance. People do not inject methanol to increase their octane. If that is the reasoning behind doing it... there are quicker and easier ways to the finish line.

I didnt say it turns into 110 octane. I said you can run regular gas on a tune as if it were high octane because detonation is inhibited by the cooling of the water and alcohol. Thanks for the math though, like that's not posted up at every gas station in America.
Why do you think people fill up with 110 octane? To advance timing and tune for it on race day. Buying high octane gas wont do much for you just like injecting water/meth wont do much unless you tune for it. You can do the exact same thing with water/meth that you do for race gas. And since it is many many times cheaper than filling up with race gas, it can be used much more frequently.

[MIDNITEAUDI]

Check out this article from Eurotuner. http://www.snowperformance.net/produ...le-pdf-115.pdf
Here is a direct quote "The cooling process allows an engine to safely run more advanced ignition timing and boost. It stimulates an octane boosting effect on the fuel and reduces detonation."
The power is in the timing advance.
I've been running a race gas tune every day for the last three years on 87 octane so thanks for your infinite wisdom but it seems to be working just fine for me. I'll keep buying my silly 87 octane and you keep paying for premium.

[GetBoosted84]

I didnt say it turns into 110 octane. I said you can run regular gas on a tune as if it were high octane because detonation is inhibited by the cooling of the water and alcohol. Thanks for the math though, like that's not posted up at every gas station in America.
Why do you think people fill up with 110 octane? To advance timing and tune for it on race day. Buying high octane gas wont do much for you just like injecting water/meth wont do much unless you tune for it. You can do the exact same thing with water/meth that you do for race gas. And since it is many many times cheaper than filling up with race gas, it can be used much more frequently.

I quoted you as saying "110 octane". Perhaps you forgot so may I direct you to YOUR post (#11). It is not like running 110 octane when you are putting 87 in your car. If you think that, continue to smoke your crack pipe.

Think about this, you are putting in 87 octane fuel right? Lets say at most you inject 25% water/meth into your combustion chamber at WOT (which is generous considering I'll bet you don't have the max amount of alky injected into your car). So consider that a 50/50 mixture of water/methanol accounts for approximately 113 octane fuel. Now how are you thinking that your car is pushing out anywhere even remotely close to 100 octane? I'm guessing you aren't very good at math (or logic).

Check out this article from Eurotuner. http://www.snowperformance.net/produ...le-pdf-115.pdf
Here is a direct quote "The cooling process allows an engine to safely run more advanced ignition timing and boost. It stimulates an octane boosting effect on the fuel and reduces detonation."
The power is in the timing advance.
I've been running a race gas tune every day for the last three years on 87 octane so thanks for your infinite wisdom but it seems to be working just fine for me. I'll keep buying my silly 87 octane and you keep paying for premium.

Lets see some logs to support that your car is magic and somehow creating race fuel like octanes off 87 octane fuel. What's your timing pull look like at WOT? How much boost & timing are you running and on what setup? Also, what size nozzle are you running and how many of them? Considering your injectors are probably 415 or 630cc's, it better be a big one if you think you are making race fuel in that engine of yours.

[MIDNITEAUDI]

You're a little too hung up on "making race fuel" which I never said. I used a simile saying run 87 like 110. I run a 104 flash with an additional 3 1/4 deg advance on my car. Maybe that doesn't quite hit the 110 mark but that's not what I was getting at. I was saying it is like higher octane in the sense that knock and predetonation are inhibited by both the water and alcohol.

[MIDNITEAUDI]

This is directly from Snow Performance FAQ page.
What power gains can I expect?
Boost Coolers® allow for more power in two ways on a gasoline application.
• Extra octane. This allows for much more aggressive tuning safely to make more power. Timing can often be advanced 10 or more degrees in the power band. Boost can often be increased 5 or more PSI. Air/fuel ratios of around 12.5:1 can be utilized even in high boost applications.
Guess they must be smoking crack too huh?

[ZimbutheMonkey]

Not to get into a fight over this one, but I kind of have to go with GetBoosted84. Reading your post, it doesn't look like there is any sort of qualification on your mention of running 87 like it's 110 octane.

Personally, I run W/M and I'm loath to run anything less than 94 octane in my tank. I had experienced multiple failures with my old Snow Performance kit (although in their defense I hear they've addressed quite a few of the failure points). Had I been running right on the ragged edge of detonation, I could have easily grenaded my engine had I had 87 octane instead of 94 octane.

Really, your tune should be able to run without a chance of detonation without the W/M. The yard stick I use is 0-9 degrees timing pull max without W/M. The W/M is then used to bring that down to zero and add more power on top of the timing by cooling the charge as well.

Anyway, like I said, I'm not looking for a fight. However I think it was kind of important to introduce some sort of qualification on what your operating conditions without W/M should be.

[MIDNITEAUDI]

How could I run a 104 tune without a chance of detonation if I'm not filling up with 104 octane? I'm just speaking from experience running regular 87 without any problems at the 104 tune plus additional advance. Its been three years and I've saved quite a bit of money not buying 93 or 94.
I have 3 programs in my ECU. 91 octane, 93 octane, and 104 octane. If I filled up with 110 and ran my 104 program I think I'd have a little room to advance timing. I do the same thing running meth injection and filling up with 87. I run the 104 program and advance the timing a little further. In that sense, I run 87 like 110, that's all I was getting at.
I was only trying to share my experience using the meth injection not get into an argument about turning 87 into 110.

[ZimbutheMonkey]

Fair enough, I just felt that the point needed a little clarifying for anyone who was getting info off this thread. I think it's clear now what the both of us are talking about.

[GetBoosted84]

You're a little too hung up on "making race fuel" which I never said. I used a simile saying run 87 like 110. I run a 104 flash with an additional 3 1/4 deg advance on my car. Maybe that doesn't quite hit the 110 mark but that's not what I was getting at. I was saying it is like higher octane in the sense that knock and predetonation are inhibited by both the water and alcohol.

My comments were in direct reference to you saying that meth is magically making up for the difference octane that your tune is calling for versus what you are supplying (87 vs. 110 or 104). You should log your cars timing retard so you can see how much timing your car is pulling to fix the advance you are applying to it. I'll bet you're not seeing 3 or less degrees of retard on your cylinders as you would with real 104+ octane fuel that your tune is calling for.

This is directly from Snow Performance FAQ page.
What power gains can I expect?
Boost Coolers® allow for more power in two ways on a gasoline application.
• Extra octane. This allows for much more aggressive tuning safely to make more power. Timing can often be advanced 10 or more degrees in the power band. Boost can often be increased 5 or more PSI. Air/fuel ratios of around 12.5:1 can be utilized even in high boost applications.
Guess they must be smoking crack too huh?

Again, my comment was in reference to you thinking that methanol injection is making up for the octane difference between what your tune is calling for (104 octane) versus what you are putting in your tank (87 octane). So no, Snow Performance doesn't smoke crack. Nor do they make claims that you can put 87 octane in your tank and run a race tune file without the ECU correcting for your mistakes.



ZimbutheMonkey, you're right about Snow btw. They made some major improvements on their pumps. I've used a few of their setups and the new ones are much more quality units ffrom the upgraded pressures to the mounting brackets and even the newly designed top ends to the pumps.

[MIDNITEAUDI]

Here is a post by Snow performance about tuning and dyno results of race gas vs. pump+50/50 meth injection.
http://www.yellowbullet.com/forum/sh...d.php?t=352961 Here is a quote "We wanted to see what was better for a street car: race fuel or adding water/methanol injection. Cutting right to the chase, both techniques made nearly identical power. It makes sense because we started off with 16 degrees of ignition timing on pump gas, then bumped it up to 23 degrees and 26 degrees on both the water/methanol and race fuel." And they used 117 octane
Here is another post by a snow performance tech http://www.snowperformance.net/forum...adb67f11099c83
"pump gas and 50/50 water/methanol will net you an equivalent octane rating that compares to race gas"
This is from their Ins and Outs of Water Meth injection http://rhwracing.com/ins-and-outs-of...nol-injection/
"• The extra 20-25 points of octane provided allows for more spark timing advance"
Heres another one http://www.dragzine.com/tech-stories...injection-101/
"A properly tuned water/methanol injection system will usually support a typical “race gas” engine tune."
http://www.snowperformance.net/forum...ef1d56e718974e From a Snow Tech "I talked to a guy yesterday who have a 6-71 Weiand on a small block V8. He was still fine tuning on the dyno and he had already beat his 110 octane race gas numbers using our stuff and pump gas. So more to the point, I would expect you to be able to run either the same tune or something very similar to C16 using premium pump gas and 50/50 water/methanol."
"There are lots of variables in detonation suppression, but it has tested and proven time and time again (since WWII in fact) that when injected accurately and correctly, we can get a solid 20-25 point octane gain with 50/50 water-methanol over pump gas alone. "
C16 is 117 octane correct? Is it safe to assume now that 87 can safely be run with meth injection at a 110 tune or just even a 104 tune? 87+20=107
Who's smokin crack now?

[GetBoosted84]

You're a little too hung up on "making race fuel" which I never said. I used a simile saying run 87 like 110. I run a 104 flash with an additional 3 1/4 deg advance on my car. Maybe that doesn't quite hit the 110 mark but that's not what I was getting at. I was saying it is like higher octane in the sense that knock and predetonation are inhibited by both the water and alcohol.

This is directly from Snow Performance FAQ page.
What power gains can I expect?
Boost Coolers® allow for more power in two ways on a gasoline application.
• Extra octane. This allows for much more aggressive tuning safely to make more power. Timing can often be advanced 10 or more degrees in the power band. Boost can often be increased 5 or more PSI. Air/fuel ratios of around 12.5:1 can be utilized even in high boost applications.
Guess they must be smoking crack too huh?

Here is a post by Snow performance about tuning and dyno results of race gas vs. pump+50/50 meth injection.
http://www.yellowbullet.com/forum/sh...d.php?t=352961 Here is a quote "We wanted to see what was better for a street car: race fuel or adding water/methanol injection. Cutting right to the chase, both techniques made nearly identical power. It makes sense because we started off with 16 degrees of ignition timing on pump gas, then bumped it up to 23 degrees and 26 degrees on both the water/methanol and race fuel." And they used 117 octane
Here is another post by a snow performance tech http://www.snowperformance.net/forum...adb67f11099c83
"pump gas and 50/50 water/methanol will net you an equivalent octane rating that compares to race gas"
This is from their Ins and Outs of Water Meth injection http://rhwracing.com/ins-and-outs-of...nol-injection/
"• The extra 20-25 points of octane provided allows for more spark timing advance"
Heres another one http://www.dragzine.com/tech-stories...injection-101/
"A properly tuned water/methanol injection system will usually support a typical “race gas” engine tune."
http://www.snowperformance.net/forum...ef1d56e718974e From a Snow Tech "I talked to a guy yesterday who have a 6-71 Weiand on a small block V8. He was still fine tuning on the dyno and he had already beat his 110 octane race gas numbers using our stuff and pump gas. So more to the point, I would expect you to be able to run either the same tune or something very similar to C16 using premium pump gas and 50/50 water/methanol."
C16 is 117 octane correct? Is it safe to assume now that 87 can safely be run with meth injection at a 110 tune or just even a 104 tune?
Who's smokin crack now?

So I'm guessing you are running the absolute max amount of water meth that is specified out for your setup? Not just one injector you tossed in there? And you also dyno tuned your car, right? Or have any logs to support this? Anyway, it doesn't much matter. If you are trying to convince yourself that your setup is completely safe and you can run a race gas tune with your setup which I'm guessing you don't have logs for since you keep dodging that question, have fun. It's your engine and your money to waste however you see fit.

So with regard to the dyno tunes that you are referencing, there are a ton of other factors involved which are not talked about. How many sprayers are involved? What is the total amount being sprayed into the system? How much fuel is being provided to the engine?

P.S. - I'm so sure all of those guys were running stock 4 cylinder engines on 87 octane in their car too. That's a great comparison.

[MIDNITEAUDI]

To say I'm smoking crack is bullshit. I just proved you wrong in saying you can't run a race gas tune on pump gas. So now you're saying it can be done; there's just no way I could possibly be doing it right? And we're changing it to how well I'm tuned for it and we're not even comparing similar enough engines huh? I think the principles remain the same regardless of engine size. I would love for you to further explain to me how a larger forced induction internal combustion engine is so drastically different from a smaller forced induction internal combustion engine that comparing the two would be an exercise in futility.
So far your evidence is telling me I'm not good at math or logic, and I smoke crack. Meanwhile I have brought forth more than one example to back me up. Who's illogical there?
And I'm not a stock 4 cylinder. I have an APR stage 3 Garret turbo.
I apologize if I was not quick to go take a log for you, but my registered version of VCDS works only with my other drive that I'm having problems with at the moment.

[MIDNITEAUDI]

So I'm guessing you are running the absolute max amount of water meth that is specified out for your setup? Not just one injector you tossed in there? And you also dyno tuned your car, right? Or have any logs to support this? Anyway, it doesn't much matter. If you are trying to convince yourself that your setup is completely safe and you can run a race gas tune with your setup which I'm guessing you don't have logs for since you keep dodging that question, have fun. It's your engine and your money to waste however you see fit.

So with regard to the dyno tunes that you are referencing, there are a ton of other factors involved which are not talked about. How many sprayers are involved? What is the total amount being sprayed into the system? How much fuel is being provided to the engine?

P.S. - I'm so sure all of those guys were running stock 4 cylinder engines on 87 octane in their car too. That's a great comparison.

What part of 3 years with no problems was unclear? Wouldn't logic lend itself to say that if I were running a tune that wasn't safe for my engine it would have blown within 3 years of running that way?
And what do you think you know about my setup? Yes I am injecting the correct amount needed for a forced induction 1.8l application to suppress detonation sufficiently and I did alot of fine tuning to get it right.

[bmarshall]

Let's not forget how clean your engine internals will be running with W/M. No carbon deposits on valves and pistons = better breathing and no hot spots. That's a bonus in it's self.

[GetBoosted84]

To say I'm smoking crack is bullshit. I just proved you wrong in saying you can't run a race gas tune on pump gas. So now you're saying it can be done; there's just no way I could possibly be doing it right? And we're changing it to how well I'm tuned for it and we're not even comparing similar enough engines huh? I think the principles remain the same regardless of engine size. I would love for you to further explain to me how a larger forced induction internal combustion engine is so drastically different from a smaller forced induction internal combustion engine that comparing the two would be an exercise in futility.
So far your evidence is telling me I'm not good at math or logic, and I smoke crack. Meanwhile I have brought forth more than one example to back me up. Who's illogical there?
And I'm not a stock 4 cylinder. I have an APR stage 3 Garret turbo.
I apologize if I was not quick to go take a log for you, but my registered version of VCDS works only with my other drive that I'm having problems with at the moment.

No, your previous comments regarding octane are the part that is BS which is why I still think you must smoke crack to believe it. And I wasn't asking you to take a log right that second. The fact of the matter is that if you are running a race gas specific tune and putting more timing on top of that, logic would dictate that you would have taken some logs previously to ensure you are not causing the ECU to fix your mistakes.

I'll tell you what... call APR and ask them if spraying meth through a single injector at ?? size instead of race gas for their race gas tune is a good idea. Don't take my word for it because at this point since you believe in it so much, you should just jack the boost up to 27+ psi as well. Good luck with that.

Like I said before... you do whatever you want. I was just calling you out on your claim that, "You can run 87 octane like its 110" (quoted from post #11). Post up a poll in a different thread stating exactly that and see who else jumps on your bandwagon.

What part of 3 years with no problems was unclear? Wouldn't logic lend itself to say that if I were running a tune that wasn't safe for my engine it would have blown within 3 years of running that way?
And what do you think you know about my setup? Yes I am injecting the correct amount needed for a forced induction 1.8l application to suppress detonation sufficiently and I did alot of fine tuning to get it right.

Logic dictates that you have an ECU that is fixing your mistakes along the path which is what is causing your engine to not detonate.

[MIDNITEAUDI]

What part of "we can get a solid 20-25 point octane gain with 50/50 water-methanol over pump gas alone" doesn't click with you?
To defend my statements in post 11 refer to post 22.
So just to clarify your argument went from "If you believe that continue to smoke your crack pipe" to "Oh it is possible, just no way you could be doing it right".

[MIDNITEAUDI]

I asked APR about running their 104 program using W/M injection. This is their response.
"First let me tell you that APR has not done any testing with water/meth systems,
so honestly I cant say if this would be a good idea, but on the same token I
cant say that it would be a bad idea. I just simply don't know for sure without
having any testing.
However we have had several customers go this route with out issues, just there
needs to be some understanding of the particular system your using and its
effects with the given ratio of water/methanol. Also the vehicle needs to be
logged when determining what settings are correct to be able to accurately tell
if everything is OK."

[GetBoosted84]

What part of "we can get a solid 20-25 point octane gain with 50/50 water-methanol over pump gas alone" doesn't click with you?
To defend my statements in post 11 refer to post 22.
So just to clarify your argument went from "If you believe that continue to smoke your crack pipe" to "Oh it is possible, just no way you could be doing it right".

Not sure who you are quoting with that second quote but have fun with that. And after going through some of those links, I didn't see anyone in there who said it was sound judgement to put 87 octane in and run a race tune. I must have misread or something. I mean given that you were using it as a comparison for your argument.

But like I said. It's your motor and you can destroy (err... um I mean use it to it's peak potential) it however you see fit. And anyone who wishes to follow in your footsteps should do the same. You should probably start using conventional oil too since that synthetic stuff is just hocus pocus too I'm sure. Same with the coolant... you should stop paying for VAG specific G12 and just use Peak. You'll save tons of money that way. I'm sure if you use that 104 octane booster they sell at Pep Boys you will be able to put rain water in the gas tank then you won't even need to pay for 87 octane fuel.

[MIDNITEAUDI]

Review post 15 if you want to see what I was quoting. No they were not using 87 and running a 104 tune. They were using 91 and 93 tuning up to 117 octane levels. Don't really see how that is so drastically different. Consistent 20-25 point octane gains is what I was referring to.

[CamrideA4]

I asked APR about running their 104 program using W/M injection. This is their response.
"First let me tell you that APR has not done any testing with water/meth systems,
so honestly I cant say if this would be a good idea, but on the same token I
cant say that it would be a bad idea. I just simply don't know for sure without
having any testing.
However we have had several customers go this route with out issues, just there
needs to be some understanding of the particular system your using and its
effects with the given ratio of water/methanol. Also the vehicle needs to be
logged when determining what settings are correct to be able to accurately tell
if everything is OK."

So have you logged your car yet? If so feel free to post them.

[murdered APR a4]

holy shit put your cocks away damnit, tired of seeing this thread at the top with two guys trying to outdo each other or point one out that they think is wrong, midnight was posting about his personal experience he is running 87 on a 104 tune no need to get all super gay over this thread seriously....ranting over