Debating an s6 4.2L swap...

[Capt. Obvious]

Subscribed.

I'm planning to yank the 2.7T out of my S4 to replace it with an S8/S6 motor sometime in the nearish future. Keep up the good work.

[beemercer]

^^Any idea who I can contact at JHM about getting the tweaked Euro S8 file? I'm hoping to complete this swap in 2 weeks.......Also, would love to know where to get some 2.5" downpipes for a reasonable price? I've PM'd Greg@Griffin to see if the Milltek Group Buy is still on

email [email protected], I already gave their calibrator a heads up about your build. You should be able to get the same file as me as long as there are no issues with A6 vs S8 ecus. Should be sai delete, cat delete, rear O2 sensor delete and possibly launch assist if he finished it up. I'm still waiting for my new chip. You'll need to send in the ecu to have a riser board soldered on.

[beemercer]

For those of you that are interested in doing this swap in the near future, and are planning on running some 2.5" catless downpipes......PLEASE contact Greg@Griffin (Griffin Motorwerke) about the 2.5" Milltek Catless downpipe group buy......The special GB price is $649...which is an absolute STEAL, at Milltek downpipes generally go for over $2k. We're waiting on getting around 6 people....so please PLEASE get in touch with him if you're interested

*EDIT*

Here's the link:
http://www.audizine.com/forum/showth...P-s-for-A6-4.2

definitely a great price, I asked Greg about making sure they dont put the neckdown in so make sure to request that, The 4.2s do best with 2.5" all the way. Also do the stock a6 downpipes fit into the B5? Just something to consider

[beemercer]

^^Awesome man! Have you decided what you're going to do with it???

Also, just wanted to update this thread, as I've found some very important information in my research.......Evidently, I'll need to use the A6 V8 upper and lower motor mount brackets to get the motor to fit in the OEM location, without any fabrication.....the S8 engine has different engine mount points than the standard a6 v8 motor. While the mounting points on the block surface are the same, the upper and lower engine mount brackets are slightly different. The passenger side mounts is an easy swap......but on the driver's side, the S8 oil filter housing (which is a completely different design than the A6.....not exactly sure why) is integrated into the motor mount bracket.....So, I'll be picking up a new set of motor mount brackets AND an A6 oil filter housing.......Hopefully then, the motor will drop right in

The hard part is going to be finding a solution for the FRONT engine mount (it's a torque mount on the PS that bolts to the frame rail.......it essentially replaces the snub mount).....I'll likely have to fab up something.......somehow....

Should be picking up the engine this week! I'll post pics as I get them

the oil filter should be on the passenger side for the A6 mounts.. a few things about that, make absolutely sure you replace the coolant pipe down by the bracket. The stock plastic piece fails and its a motor out deal. Bufkin Engineering makes a billet replacement with viton o-rings.. iirc scott@advanced has a few. This goes for anyone thinking of a timing belt 4.2.

also if you are so inclined JHM can set you up with an oil filter relocation kit like I have on my A6 (to clear the headers), For that email sales@jhmotorsports and ask for the part number of the filter kit (mine was for a rustang and uses old 5.0 oil filters) and if they can make you a new washer. If you go for it, I'd use AN fittings and stainless braided and you can easily add an oil cooler.

for the front motor mount I've been meaning to get a GM trans mount and adapt that to my car. the stock mount sheared and if I put in a new one the same thing will happen again.

[JumboBlack1.8]

Do you have a link for the billet coolant flange? I can't seem to find it.

Chris @ Force5Auto has gone M.I.A......I've called, left voicemails and emails.....but nada.....Gonna wait another day, then (hopefully) start sourcing another motor.......the time is ticking.....I'm moving in 3 weeks, and I could REALLY use a running car, lol

[beemercer]

^I'll dig it up when I get home from the plant

[revolution337]

definitely a great price, I asked Greg about making sure they dont put the neckdown in so make sure to request that, The 4.2s do best with 2.5" all the way. Also do the stock a6 downpipes fit into the B5? Just something to consider

This is something I'd like to know as well. I haven't taken any measurments to see if the A6 downpipes will fit in the B5 chassis or not. And what is this "neckdown" that you speak of?

[beemercer]

This is something I'd like to know as well. I haven't taken any measurments to see if the A6 downpipes will fit in the B5 chassis or not. And what is this "neckdown" that you speak of?

the circled bit, it's reduced to 2.25" so they'll fit the stock sized Milltek catback

[JumboBlack1.8]

I'm pretty sure they will fit. Russian used these on his build, and he didn't mention any issues

[beemercer]

best I can really find at the moment, I think the billet pipe isn't on Bufkin's webiste anymore. May be worth dropping them an email

http://www.audipages.com/Tech_Articl...reinstall.html

[JumboBlack1.8]

Looks like I've got a few emails to send off tomorrow! :D


***EDIT***

Is this the piece you're referring to???


Bufkin


vs OEM





Got another question for ya......Have people done A/C deletes with these motors? If so, is there somewhere that supplies the appropriate accessory belt? I'd read somewhere that PureMS used to, but I can't find it on the website......I suppose I could add them to my email list tomorrow.

Also (for everyone) just found the SAI block-off plate on 034's website....thought I'd share:
http://www.034motorsport.com/engine-...8-p-21816.html

[flynnr]

not to be a debbie downer, but do you really think that you will be able to get this goin before you move? that seems like a huge task to me... 3 weeks to do something that not a ton of people have done before, and you said you have limited fabrication skills, which would probably be helpful.

I would LOVE to see this thing going, but would honestly recommend just waiting until after you move so you arent stuck in the middle of a project of this magnitude.

in for sound clips of this beast!

[JumboBlack1.8]

^HAHA....I know.....no need to remind me, lol....It was a terribly stupid decision. But I made up my mind a few days before getting a call with a job offer. Fortunately, I'm only moving about 1.5hrs away, so I could return to my parents' house on weekends to finish it up. If I can't meet my deadline, I'll have to rent a VERY cheap car for a week or two.....no big deal

[Scotty@Advanced]

The only things I'm concerned about, at the moment, are flywheel options and cooling. I'm not sure what I want to do with my radiator fan setup, and how to tie that into the OEM ECU.

You have 2 options for flywheels. Use 2.7 stuff and have an engine/transmission package that is 5/8inches longer, use 30V v6 flywheel and clutch or use Euro S6/S8 flywheel and clutch. I guess that is 3 options.

I'm actually taking on this swap. I recently aquired a 4.2 from an 02 A6, along with the harness and ECU. And from what I've read (haven't checked myself) the engine I have (code AWN) actually weighs LESS than an AEB, mostly due to the aluminum block. I've been wanting to do this swap for the same reasons you do, less complications being NA, plus it'd be really unique. Cost wise, its cheaper than the BT build I had originally planned too. As stated above, the biggest problem I forsee is the fact that the engine came from an auto, and I plan on running my 01A with the motor. I will deal with that problem later down the road though.

I'd say go for it. Then we can bounce ideas off each other

The 40V V8 weighs about 80 pounds more than the 1.8t.

[JumboBlack1.8]

I've JUST purchased a Spec single mass LWFW from a B5 S4.....according to my research (and speaking with others), a transmission adapter plate is NOT necessary in this swap if you choose a shorter, single mass unit over a dual mass. This will allow for MUCH needed space in the front of the engine for your radiator fans

[Scotty@Advanced]

I've JUST purchased a Spec single mass LWFW from a B5 S4.....according to my research (and speaking with others), a transmission adapter plate is NOT necessary in this swap if you choose a shorter, single mass unit over a dual mass. This will allow for MUCH needed space in the front of the engine for your radiator fans

That doesn't sound right, all the spec 2.7tt flywheels i've seen are the same dims as stock.

[beemercer]

my VAST LWFW needs the spacer plate fwiw.

And yes thats the coolant pipe, I had thought I had the page bookmarked.

For the A/C delete could you leave a bracket with the pulley still on it? I gather its to save space? Or just go to napa or somewhere and grab a bunch of belts and try to wrap them and if they dont fit return them

[Capt. Obvious]

For the deleted AC, the best way to figure out how long of a belt you'll need is to use a piece of string. Just run the string along the path of the belts and hold the tensioner(s) roughly in the spot they will be with the belt and see how long the string is. Then go the auto parts store and get a belt that long.

[JumboBlack1.8]

For the deleted AC, the best way to figure out how long of a belt you'll need is to use a piece of string. Just run the string along the path of the belts and hold the tensioner(s) roughly in the spot they will be with the belt and see how long the string is. Then go the auto parts store and get a belt that long.

Great call. Thanks!

As for the adapter, I'll pick one up from DxC (big in the S4 forum....he's local to me), just in case. According to others, the engine will line up perfectly with OEM A6 V8 upper and lower engine mounts WITH an adapter plate. I'm planning on running Push radiator fans in front of the radiator, so hopefully spacing won't be too much of an issue

[capea4]

The 40V V8 weighs about 80 pounds more than the 1.8t.

is that just the long blocks, or turbo included?
plus FMIC, not much but it all adds up.

[revolution337]

You have 2 options for flywheels. Use 2.7 stuff and have an engine/transmission package that is 5/8inches longer, use 30V v6 flywheel and clutch or use Euro S6/S8 flywheel and clutch. I guess that is 3 options. The 40V V8 weighs about 80 pounds more than the 1.8t.

Like I said, I never actually checked myself so I wasn't sure. But thanks for the info!

And what exactly do you mean that the engine/trans package will be 5/8" longer with 2.7 stuff? Are you saying I will need a adapter plate, or just that compared to the 1.8 setup, this will be 5/8" longer.

[NeedingAnAudi]

I've been doing some very crude measurements. The 1.8 trans to the end of the belt is around 20". The 2000 A6 4.2 I have appears to be around 21". So, with my Audi cross-breeding juices flowing, I think that if i can get the v8 to bolt directly to the 5-speed trans, the only modifications needed are front engine mount, and cutting out the fans and putting in pusher fans.

This excites me to no end! Just need to get over my wiring fears and I might have a v8 a4 finally.

[Mad Cow]

I've been doing some very crude measurements. The 1.8 trans to the end of the belt is around 20". The 2000 A6 4.2 I have appears to be around 21". So, with my Audi cross-breeding juices flowing, I think that if i can get the v8 to bolt directly to the 5-speed trans, the only modifications needed are front engine mount, and cutting out the fans and putting in pusher fans.

This excites me to no end! Just need to get over my wiring fears and I might have a v8 a4 finally.

So you'll be swapping a DBW V8 into a DBC car right? I'm planning on this swap too so whatever you do will be incredibly helpful. Have you figured out the ECU/wiring situation?

[revolution337]

So you'll be swapping a DBW V8 into a DBC car right? I'm planning on this swap too so whatever you do will be incredibly helpful. Have you figured out the ECU/wiring situation?

99.5 is DBW, no?

[NeedingAnAudi]

So you'll be swapping a DBW V8 into a DBC car right? I'm planning on this swap too so whatever you do will be incredibly helpful. Have you figured out the ECU/wiring situation?

I figured out that it's going to be a nightmare lol

99.5 is DBW, no?

99.5 is DBC. I would rather try and make the V8 a DBC than swap to DBW, I've driven both in an a4, much prefer the cable.

[revolution337]

Reposting this link to the Milltek catless downpipes because we only need 1 more person to commit in order to get the GB deal.

http://www.audizine.com/forum/showth...P-s-for-A6-4.2

[nate09]

I figured out that it's going to be a nightmare lol


99.5 is DBC. I would rather try and make the V8 a DBC than swap to DBW, I've driven both in an a4, much prefer the cable.

My 99.5 is DBW

[Mad Cow]

From what I knew all 99.5's are DBC, but for all I know really late ones might have been DBW.

I can't see any way of making the V8 work with DBC short of using the 32v ecu and TB though, and that's a pretty hacky solution.

[JumboBlack1.8]

Positive that 99.5 was DBC. 2000 was the only "bastard child" motor with an 058 block, small port head, and DBW. If you have a pre '00 motor, you'll need a DBC a6 motor

[Scotty@Advanced]

Positive that 99.5 was DBC. 2000 was the only "bastard child" motor with an 058 block, small port head, and DBW. If you have a pre '00 motor, you'll need a DBC a6 motor

Yup the 99.5 had an AEB, which was DBC. Early 2000's also had the AEB which was DBC. The ATW engine is essentially a DBW AEB, then late 2000 had the AWM which was the 06A block and DBW.

If you install the appropriate wiriing DBC/DBW doesn't matter, however it's much easier to start with a DBW car and use a DBW engine.

All 40V v8's were DBW and it's impossible to convert them to DBC unless you go standalone, which adds $3-$4K to your build.

If you want a DBC engine then look for a 32V engine from an A8.

[JumboBlack1.8]

Reposting this link to the Milltek catless downpipes because we only need 1 more person to commit in order to get the GB deal.

http://www.audizine.com/forum/showth...P-s-for-A6-4.2

X2.......someone PLEASE step up and get a set.....it's a tremendous deal

[NeedingAnAudi]

Yup the 99.5 had an AEB, which was DBC. Early 2000's also had the AEB which was DBC. The ATW engine is essentially a DBW AEB, then late 2000 had the AWM which was the 06A block and DBW.

If you install the appropriate wiriing DBC/DBW doesn't matter, however it's much easier to start with a DBW car and use a DBW engine.

All 40V v8's were DBW and it's impossible to convert them to DBC unless you go standalone, which adds $3-$4K to your build.

If you want a DBC engine then look for a 32V engine from an A8.

$3-4K??

[Scotty@Advanced]

$3-4K??

034 IIC = $1,750.00
DBC conversaion = $625.00
Wiring Harness = ~$800
Various Sensors etc $300
Dyno Tuning, $200/hr

It's a rough estimate...

[JumboBlack1.8]

Why not just buy a DBC V8? Swapping to DBW would be a serious PITA

[NeedingAnAudi]

But then I can't say "yeah I got 40 valves." lol Actually Somebody5788 said the 99.5s might be wired for DBW wire already. If that's the case, then I will convert to DBW.

[Mad Cow]

But then I can't say "yeah I got 40 valves." lol Actually Somebody5788 said the 99.5s might be wired for DBW wire already. If that's the case, then I will convert to DBW.

I seriously doubt that's the case, a ton of electronic changes were made in 2000. I can see the lack of a CAN bus as the main problem, that is assuming the ECU depends on it. Also things like cruise control could be tricky to get working.

That being said, if I do go through with this swap I'm still going to do all this because the 40v engines are just so much better.

[JumboBlack1.8]

Its becoming more and more apparent that finishing this project in the next 2 weeks is QUITE unrealistic (turns out its going to take 4 weeks for the Milltek downpipes to get made IF we go through with the group buy).......I'm not abandoning the project....but the search for a daily beater begins! Any suggestions?? Looking for something very cheap

[Capt. Obvious]

The hardest part of this swap is going to be finding an S8 or S6 engine with low-ish miles.

A few weeks back, a local guy was parting out a 70k mile S8. The engine was still in the car and able to be started. He only wanted $1500 for it! Then he sold it out from under me when another guy came along and bought the whole car.

[JumboBlack1.8]

^^Wow, that sure is a heart breaker......I don't particularly mind the high miles on these motors, so that's been making my search easier. I've found a full motor w/ harness, ecu, accessories, etc in NH for $3k.....more than I wanted to spend, but it's local....so I'll at least get to SEE the motor before exchanging funds. Unfortunately, the shop is extremely busy, so I can't get the motor until the end of next week

[revolution337]

turns out its going to take 4 weeks for the Milltek downpipes to get made IF we go through with the group buy

damn, I didn't realize these needed to be custom made. Did you get this info from greg?