HELP! REAR lower control arm removal

[Fungeneer]

I'm following Mark P's DIY on wheel bearing replacement, and am just trying to put everything back together. All is in good, except for the lower control arm nut/bolt shown in step 10 here...
http://www.audiworld.com/tech/wheel45.shtml
That 19mm nut is just threaded onto the ball joint shaft. How is that tightened/untightened? The whole thing just spins in the ball joint! This is an otherwise great DIY, but I don't see any way to secure that ball joint shaft so the nut will spin freely on it. There's no allen or hex connection anywhere else to grip that threaded rod.

Another, MUCH less ideal option would be to ride on the loosened control arm bolt to a shop. There's no steering linkage, etc, back there like the front control arms, so if this connection is loose like 3/4", would it do anything catastrophic, or just rattle like a m/f? I mean, if I can't get that bolt to wind off (or back on all the way, for that matter), I don't think it's too likely to wind itself off.

If anybody had this problem, or any ideas, TIA as I'm on jack stands in pieces as you read this.

Thanks everybody.

[mholme]

Try putting tension on the tie rod with a jack to stop the shaft from spinning. Otherwise you're going to need air to zip it back on.

[Fungeneer]

Thanks holme, I'll try that. There's enough exposed post that we vise gripped it as hard as possible to keep the post from spinning, but it still moved, but I hope the weight of the car will be enough to hold it in place while that nut winds in.

[Fungeneer]

turns out it wasnt enough. anyone have any other suggestions?

[quattEUro]

try tightening it back up, spray some wd40 on the threads and scrub them down with a wire brush. let the wd sit for a bit.

[LL Tuning]

buy a nut splitter tool....

[csosnowski]

sounds like the threads are buggered up with corrosion.

try what quatteuro said and re-tighten it. when you go to loosen it try and keep pressure between the upright and the joint and hope that the pressure will keep it stationary.

if you can keep the cone face of the joint seated in the upright, you should be able to get the nut off because the friction will keep the shaft from spinning.

[Fungeneer]

The thing is that I can't wind the nut at all; tighter or looser, the whole shaft just spins in the ball joint. I don't even know how I could have put enough force on the nut to get it to where it is in the first place. Does anyone know much about the internals of oem ball joint ends on our cars? I understand how they have a free range of motion in all directions, but can they still be constructed with some kind of internal seal/connection/whatever that keeps them from spinning, that I might have broken when undoing that nut?
Ya, I pb blasted that thing back into the stone age, but it didn't seem to help. How about anyone's opinion on driving with it loose? The upper and lower wishbones seem to keep the rear wheels on track both vertically and horizontally (fore/aft), and it's not like the rears steer like the fronts do, so what function does that extra control arm in the back even serve? I'm just not seeing how that joint could receive much of a beating, and am thinking about just driving it to a friend's shop a few miles away. I'm also not worried about that nut winding itself off in the course of driving, cuz I've been a lot more persuasive than a few minutes of driving would be, and it hasn't budged.

[Fungeneer]

buy a nut splitter tool....

LL, I looked up a nut splitter, but it looks like there's a lot of options. They move seized nuts, but does the kind you have in mind have a way to brace whatever the nut is seized onto?

[mholme]

It's not going anywhere once it's loaded on the ground. Just drive it somewhere close and have them spin it on with an impact wrench.

[Fungeneer]

Sounds good, thanks for the quick reply holme. Hopefully an impact can slam that nut free regardless if the stud is free to spin. It still has me wondering how the thing was originally tightened in the first place. I'm thinking the ball joint internals have something that hold the stud from spinning, but still lets it toggle around.

[Fungeneer]

So no one ever had this issue when removing the rear uprights for anything? So far I've...

-pressed and held the stud into the ball joint with a c clamp as hard as I could, and the nut still wouldn't move
-loaded the rear upright with the whole weight of the car, torched the nut, and it still wouldn't move
-used a dremel to cut a notch in the end of the stud, held it with a flathead, and the nut still wouldn't move (broke the tip off the screwdriver, actually)
-used a dremel to lightly flatten the exposed unthreaded stud just outside of the bushing, clamped on a pair of needlenose vise grips like my life depended on it, and the nut still wouldn't move

I think my only option is cut the nut or stud clean off, replace the control arm, and hope a clean new nut/stud won't overcome whatever friction is holding that ball joint in place from the factory so I can tighten it to spec. If anyone else has a better idea, I'm all ears.

[Tyler Adamson]

The problem you're having is the nylon lock insert. Take a torch and heat up the nut till the nylon element starts bubbling and oozing out. You should be able to put a socket on the nut and back it off. The nylon insert will harden quickly so you'll likely have to use the torch a few times till you get it off completely. I've done this with great success, but you'll have to replace the nut since the locking element will likely be ruined.

[Fungeneer]

Thanks, Tyler, but that's only part of it. I finally figured out that the stud is TAPERED, with a matching taper inside the connection of the upright. I used a prybar to crank the ball joint into the upright (toward the front of the car) while a friend torched the bolt some more and turned it while it was still hot. Success!

So if anybody else has this problem, give that a try... or just change the wheel bearing with the thing still on the car (like I'll do for the other side now)

[odhinnhrafn]

I couldn't get the joint out of that tie rod when I did my rear wheel bearing, so I just disconnected the whole arm from the frame (being sure to mark the position, as this arm controls your rear toe). Good job on getting it sorted out.

[bombermon]

Mine seized and I had to take off the spindle and get the arms pressed out