B8 A4 intercooler comparison thread

**Slave IV** · 04-27-2011 03:02 PM

This thread is as it is stated..meant to list factual comparisons of the available options. Like the catback thread I posted.

Here's what I have found so far, please add to it:

Stock: 2” cast aluminum turbo outlet flange
AE: ???
AWE: 2.5 inch diameter mandrel bent aluminum tubing. AWE does not give any information regarding the core size but it looks significantly larger than the Eurocode product. (Maybe Alex can chime in like he did for the catback thread)
Eurocode: 22" x 11" x 3" high density bar and plate core, billet aluminum 2.5” turbo outlet adapter, Mandrel bent, 2.5” aluminum hard piping from turbo outlet, to core and from core to throttle body
Godspeed: ???

Any feedback or more info on any of these intercoolers, along with info on other available intercoolers would be appreciated. Also, Stock intercooler dimensions would be helpful for comparison if anyone has that info.

**cory_can** · 04-27-2011 03:12 PM

Originally Posted by Slave IV

This thread is as it is stated..meant to list factual comparisons of the available options. Like the catback thread I posted.

Here's what I have found so far, please add to it:

AWE: 2.5 inch diameter mandrel bent aluminum tubing.

The AWE is 2.5" just past the end-tanks and then down converts to the 2" factory sizing which chokes both the in/out paths....this is the most important benefit of the Eurocode unit which (as you pointed out) is 2.5" from Turbo to TB.

After I installed the EC FMIC I was quite amazed at the extra power that was also significantly more consistent.....and this was in cold weather. It was quite apparent that the stock unit is under-sized.

IMO, the AWE unit is much better than stock but the EC unit is a more complete solution.

**B8_Jim** · 04-27-2011 03:18 PM

Originally Posted by cory_can

It was quite apparent that the stock unit is under-sized.

To be clear, that's with the Stg II+ tune, right? And when you say extra power - that's compared to the stock unit vs another afermarket FMIC?

Sorry - I don't recall the exact history all of your mods...

Thanks.

**Slave IV** · 04-27-2011 03:21 PM

Thanks for your input. I noticed the same thing you mentioned and it seems like AWE is trying to reduce the cost of their product by re-using stock components where they feel it doesn't hurt. I wonder if you can just buy some of those pipes separately to use with the AWE product? AWE is significantly cheaper than the Eurocode and AWE seems to use a significantly larger core as well so it could possibly be a better and cheaper option depending on how much it would cost to get the piping separately.

**cory_can** · 04-27-2011 03:22 PM

Originally Posted by B8_Jim

To be clear, that's with the Stg II+ tune, right? And when you say extra power - that's compared to the stock unit vs another afermarket FMIC?
Sorry - I don't recall the exact history all of your mods...
Thanks.

Sorry, I should have been more clear. That comment is based on going from a stock FMIC running StgII to a Eurocode FMIC running StgII.

**cory_can** · 04-27-2011 03:28 PM

Originally Posted by Slave IV

Thanks for your input. I noticed the same thing you mentioned and it seems like AWE is trying to reduce the cost of their product by re-using stock components where they feel it doesn't hurt. I wonder if you can just buy some of those pipes separately to use with the AWE product? AWE is significantly cheaper than the Eurocode and AWE seems to use a significantly larger core as well so it could possibly be a better and cheaper option depending on how much it would cost to get the piping separately.

From what I've researched about FMIC's putting the largest IC that will fit in a space is NOT always the best approach. The different dimensions (width/height/depth) have different impacts on flow, cooling and pressure loss. Same goes with end-tank design, although EC and AWE are very similar in this respect.

There was an incredibly good article on a BMW forum that went through all the details that I'll see if I can dig up.

**MilesM** · 04-27-2011 03:40 PM

I have the Eurocode FMIC on a Stage II tune. I'm extremely happy with it. I love the cosmetic appeal the EC FMIC has over the AWE when looking through the front grill, and the performance increase and like cory said, the consistency was improved. I looked at data from my car for ~6 runs from 0-100mph and the consistency of the heat and power was impressive to say the least.

In my opinion, a FMIC is a necessary mod if you are looking for true, consistent performance from your car, especially if you are doing any other performance related mods. And I definitely say the Eurocode FMIC has many pro's and no con's that I've been able to point out after much critiquing.

**Slave IV** · 04-27-2011 03:41 PM

Originally Posted by cory_can

From what I've researched about FMIC's putting the largest IC that will fit in a space is NOT always the best approach. The different dimensions (width/height/depth) have different impacts on flow, cooling and pressure loss. Same goes with end-tank design, although EC and AWE are very similar in this respect.

There was an incredibly good article on a BMW forum that went through all the details that I'll see if I can dig up.

Agreed...and it seems like AWE does as well...they just don't think their intercooler is Too large:
Our end tank design is the key to why we can use such a large core without tremendous pressure restriction issues. Pressure drop is kept to a minimum...
And as you stated, AWE and EC both seem to use the same end tank design. The AWE product seems like a revamped version of their B7 intercooler and if they've kept the design this long with proven results, it is probably not too big. In similar cases in the past, the larger core has always been the overall performance winner (this has been an ongoing discussion on the B5 S4 forums and the largest core IC, from ER has been the clear winner over all competitors). Maybe AWE just doesn't want the same thing happening now that happened in the B5 S4 community when the ER's were released.

Thanks for any more info you can provide.

**ItsDubC** · 04-27-2011 06:51 PM

Godspeed and AE Performance have B8 intercooler units.

**Slave IV** · 04-28-2011 11:43 AM

Thanks...any details? AE seems completely unresponsive to calls or emails lately.

**autobahnaudi** · 04-28-2011 12:07 PM

Has anyone hear anything about the FMIC's from AE & Godspeed?
They are way cheaper.
Godspeed 500
AE 1045

**Slave IV** · 04-28-2011 12:43 PM

AWE is $995...but I'd like to hear more about the other options as well as the actual size of the AWE.

**Slave IV** · 04-28-2011 12:48 PM

I checked Godspeed's website and didn't see anything for the B8. Here is their spec for their B7 FMIC that is $500:
core length: 24"
core height: 7.5"
core thickness: 3"
inlet / outlet size: 2.25"
end to end length: 30"

**David@EuroCode** · 04-28-2011 12:57 PM

Originally Posted by Slave IV

In similar cases in the past, the larger core has always been the overall performance winner (this has been an ongoing discussion on the B5 S4 forums and the largest core IC, from ER has been the clear winner over all competitors).

I own a B5 S4 and use those ER intercoolers on my car. They are not significantly larger in surfaces area, however they are much thicker, as is our B8 FMIC core. This is not a good example, as the intercooler you are trying to compare to has a much larger surface are but is thinner than our intercooler.

We found the turbo outlet adaptor and the sound box to be the biggest restrictions. The turbulence they both create, translate into lag and pressure drop. We logged both sides of the stock hoses with our own core, and saw 3 psi pressure drop by having two digital gauges on each end of the tank. Once our piping and aluminum turbo outlet adaptor was installed, the drop became nonexistent. It would fluctuate between 1psi and being exactly the same. Keep in mind that using a VCDS to check this is pointless, as the adaptive nature of the bosch ECU will increase waste gate duty and match the requested boost. The only way to do this is by having a gauge on the inlet side and one before the TB.

By the way have you seen the wheel horsepower results from our FMIC.

Temp changes

Run 1-4

Run 5

**ItsDubC** · 04-28-2011 01:44 PM

Godspeed FMIC details: http://www.audizine.com/forum/showth...=1#post6058034

Actually, just read the entire thread.

**Slave IV** · 04-28-2011 03:47 PM

Thanks for the info David!

Also, good thread linked by ItsDubC

**k9lovr** · 04-28-2011 04:47 PM

AE will not have any avail for a few months according to emails from them sent to me a while back. They sent their unit to another company who can produce them in a quicker fashion but still some time away....

**Info@EuroCode** · 04-28-2011 05:43 PM

We have plenty of intercoolers in stock, all order ship the same day as placed.

**Pip** · 04-28-2011 07:47 PM

Originally Posted by cory_can

The AWE is 2.5" just past the end-tanks and then down converts to the 2" factory sizing which chokes both the in/out paths....this is the most important benefit of the Eurocode unit which (as you pointed out) is 2.5" from Turbo to TB.

After I installed the EC FMIC I was quite amazed at the extra power that was also significantly more consistent.....and this was in cold weather. It was quite apparent that the stock unit is under-sized.

IMO, the AWE unit is much better than stock but the EC unit is a more complete solution.

Hi,

Does increasing the pipe to 2.5" all the way through result in low end lag ?

I've got a buddy here in SG with the Eurocode FMIC on his A5, complaining of low end lag (mid to high end is good though).

I know it's counter intuitive coz the larger pipes suppose to reduce throttle response etc.

Anyone experience the same thing ?

Cheers :)

**k9lovr** · 04-28-2011 07:58 PM

No noticed low end lag from this on my car

**SeaBlue** · 04-28-2011 08:30 PM

Originally Posted by Slave IV

I checked Godspeed's website and didn't see anything for the B8. Here is their spec for their B7 FMIC that is $500:
core length: 24"
core height: 7.5"
core thickness: 3"
inlet / outlet size: 2.25"
end to end length: 30"

Check here http://www.goodspeedperformance.com/...+Intercooler++

**Highlander1010** · 04-28-2011 08:31 PM

It does sound very strange. I wonder if something was done wrong during that install, or if something else is off elsewhere.

**SeaBlue** · 04-28-2011 08:36 PM

I've been talking to Jon at Good Speed about a FMIC and the newer design is not as tall as the link I just posted shows.
http://www.goodspeedperformance.com/...+Intercooler++

He is sending me specs which I should have by tomorrow.

**Info@EuroCode** · 04-28-2011 08:43 PM

Originally Posted by Pip

Hi,

Does increasing the pipe to 2.5" all the way through result in low end lag ?

I've got a buddy here in SG with the Eurocode FMIC on his A5, complaining of low end lag (mid to high end is good though).

I know it's counter intuitive coz the larger pipes suppose to reduce throttle response etc.

Anyone experience the same thing ?

Cheers :)

Not to disrepect the words from your friend but there is no way possible that if installed properly, our intercooler would produce any lag.

We have tested our intercooler in computer modeling, real world road testing and dyno testing and every single case presented we found the turbo to reach peak boost more effeciently than the OEM core.

If you look at the torque outut (which is an indicator of boost threshold) you will see that there is over a 10% decrease in "lag"

**Pip** · 04-29-2011 08:55 AM

Originally Posted by Info@EuroCode

Not to disrepect the words from your friend but there is no way possible that if installed properly, our intercooler would produce any lag.

We have tested our intercooler in computer modeling, real world road testing and dyno testing and every single case presented we found the turbo to reach peak boost more effeciently than the OEM core.

If you look at the torque outut (which is an indicator of boost threshold) you will see that there is over a 10% decrease in "lag"

Thanks for the comprehensive response :)

I'm gathering data for the FMIC groupbuy ... will interrogate that dude that complain of lag some more :)

**degnan78** · 10-17-2011 11:17 AM

Originally Posted by SeaBlue

I've been talking to Jon at Good Speed about a FMIC and the newer design is not as tall as the link I just posted shows.
http://www.goodspeedperformance.com/...+Intercooler++

He is sending me specs which I should have by tomorrow.

That link points to the AWE FMIC. Did GoodSpeed stop making their own FMIC? I searched their site but only found the one from AWE.

If so, I guess that leaves us with the following FMIC options (with list prices):

AWE - $995
AE Performance - $1045
Eurocode - $1495
CTS Turbo - $849

Any others?

**Speycaster** · 10-17-2011 02:48 PM

Originally Posted by Pip

I'm gathering data for the FMIC groupbuy ... will interrogate that dude that complain of lag some more :)

If you can save us a few hundred bucks for a group buy, I'm in!

**David@EuroCode** · 10-18-2011 01:35 PM