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  1. #1
    Established Member Two Rings alxjhn's Avatar
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    2008 Audi A8L, 2011 Q7 TDI
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    spark plug non foulers

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    how are these spark plug non foulers to trick out the O2 sensors????

    C5 Audi 4.2L

  2. #2
    Senior Member Two Rings SpooldYou's Avatar
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    Jul 17 2007
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    2005 s4 IMOLA 01 a6 2.7T (daily) Vespa Scooter w/ Jet Engine. (1.9 FATS)
    Location
    Boston

    works everytime. just drill and tap...

    heres a how too

  3. #3
    Established Member Two Rings
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    they don't work every time, I have had a 50/50 result with them, and have had much better luck with the diode mod, quicker, cheaper, and so far has not yet failed

  4. #4
    Veteran Member Four Rings Kievskiy's Avatar
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    Pair of (. )( .)
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    415

    true.
    whats the diode mod, pls tell more or point me in that direction:)
    Quote Originally Posted by jschick View Post
    they don't work every time, I have had a 50/50 result with them, and have had much better luck with the diode mod, quicker, cheaper, and so far has not yet failed
    -Andrey

    Stanced and Tuned Brilliant Black RWD C5 A6 2.7T 6MT



    "..and those titties are the best use of bandwidth in this forum...." -Invanity

  5. #5
    Established Member Two Rings
    Join Date
    Mar 11 2011
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    Location
    N.E. Ohio

    I don't have a link handy but here is the text from the original link I copied some time back (sorry he refers to Pics but I only copied the text when I saved it)

    This modification very cheaply fools your secondary (post pre-cat) O2
    Sensors into thinking that there is actually a lot less oxygen present
    than there really is. Why would you want to do this modification?

    1. You're running rich
    2. Your oxygen sensors are on the fritz.
    3. You gutted your precats, took out your main cats while you were at
    it, didn't want to buy a chip and got tired of that dumb check engine
    light staring you in the face.

    (Not that I'd ever do something like #3. I'm a law abiding citizen and
    millions of whales would die if you removed your cats. Shame on you! Hehe)

    /Disclaimer: While I am an Audi technician the modifications listed here
    are not endorsed by Audi. I provide these instructions based on my own
    findings and experiments conducted outside of Audi of America, using my
    own tools in my own garage. If your car blows up after you perform this
    modification, don't go running to my dealership expecting me to fix it
    for free. They won't, and I will refuse to acknowledge that anything
    posted here was created by me./

    SO.. You removed your precats and got the dreaded "Precatalyst
    efficiency below threshold" ... well this will fix it. Chances are
    you're reading this because you're too cheap to buy a chip that would
    eliminate this problem (like me), and also too cheap to have purchased
    WAY overpriced downpipes that have secondary O2 sensor bungs that are
    behind the main cats. Or maybe you did buy those expensive downpipes and
    got rid of the main cats too.

    The first mistake people often make is trying to trick the ECM by using
    a resistor inline on the O2 sensor. After all, the "post catalytic" O2
    sensors are now outputting 0.95 volts instead of an expected 0.1 to 0.8.
    A resistor of value X, where value X is whatever your friends brothers
    son's nephew runs on his Honda with 100% success. The problem is our ECM
    uses a mega-ohm measurement device, meaning just about no matter what
    kind of resistance you put in, the full amount of voltage will still be
    seen. Remember, resistance does not drop voltage, it limits current. If
    the ECM were to apply a decent load, then resistance would inadvertently
    drop the voltage it saw. So this is the right idea, but the wrong method.

    Next mistake I've seen is a complicated circuit that takes the O2 sensor
    signals, processes them, and re-transmits them at a lower value.
    Geeze!!! Talk about overkill. While that will work, how about the most
    simple and cheap design possible.

    1 Standard Diode from radio shack, P/N: 276-1141 <pics/eng53-diode.jpg>

    The average rectifier diode is a one-way valve. It has a voltage drop
    when current passes through it, which for the sake of discussion is
    usually around 0.5 volts. There are millions of different diodes that
    can greatly alter that figure, but for our purposes we will use that
    figure because it's exactly what we need. Your precats aren't burning
    off any of those unburned hydrocarbons when they're laying in a million
    pieces in the trashcan, so there is plenty of oxygen present as far as
    the downstream O2 sensors are concerned. They're putting out 0.95 volts.
    Pass through this lovely $1.29 incarnation, and whee! It's 0.45 volts.
    What does the ECU expect? 0.45 volts is within perfect specifications.

    Common misconception:

    - The ECM measures the difference between upstream and downstream and
    calculates mixture based on that.

    Bzzt! Wrong. Maybe on some cars, but not on ours. Those downstream
    sensors serve only one purpose: Measuring the efficiency of the precats.
    They honestly don't even measure the main catalysts! Cats age and lose
    some efficiency over time. If the precats aged and the air/fuel ratio
    was based off of this, you'd eventually run pig rich or your engine
    would lean out and predetonate itself to pieces under boost. That would
    be bad, and stupid. The primary O2 sensors do a perfectly fine job
    measuring the A/F ratio results.. And that's what they do. We're not
    going to touch them.

    What we are going to do, is touch the post pre-cat O2 sensors. I have to
    call them that, because they're BEFORE the main cats, but AFTER the
    little pre-catalysts. Specifically, we're going to modify the wiring
    harness of the sensors themselves. That way if you decide you want to
    change back to completely stock, you can just put a new O2 sensor in and
    the wiring comes with it.

    Audi was nice and put the harnesses on the passenger firewall HERE
    <pics/eng53.harness.jpg>. Green and Brown are your friends. Don't touch
    the black connectors, those are your good O2 sensors and that's where
    the real magic of the engine is contained.

    Which connector is what?? The side you want to be modifying has pins in
    sticking out of the connector. If you see flat pins, you're cutting into
    the sensor side of the harness. If you see 4 flat slots for pins to go
    into, you're cutting into the ECM side. Bad!

    As you can see in the picture, I slid back the rubber boot and cut the
    BLACK wire. This is the O2 sensor (+) output. Grey is reference voltage,
    and both whites are the heater circuit. Cut the black wire, crimp in the
    diode with the silver bar facing the ECM side (towards the connector).
    If it's backwards, your ECM won't see any voltage at all. So if that
    happened, now you know why.

    Make sure you cut enough of the wire to make up for the length of the
    conglomeration. It's about 1.5" if you use two crimp connectors and cut
    the diode leads to about 0.5" long. Bonus points if you heat-shrink this
    connection, but with the rubber boot slid back around it I really don't
    think you'll have any corrosion problems here.

    Remember, silver bar on the edge of the diode is on the ECM side, not
    the sensor side. This allows positive voltage to flow from the sensor
    through the diode to the ECM.

    Repeat for both the brown and green connectors (left and right post
    pre-cat O2 sensors)

    And when you're done, the voltage drop occurs and all is good. Clear
    those codes and enjoy!

  6. #6
    Established Member Two Rings
    Join Date
    Mar 11 2011
    AZ Member #
    72209
    Location
    N.E. Ohio

    you can use crimp connections on these but I found solder is best! the crimp connections are fast and easy but didn't always keep a good connection, solder has never let me down!

  7. #7
    Veteran Member Three Rings JWatson's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 14 2009
    AZ Member #
    52092
    My Garage
    2001.5 S4 ,1947 Mercury Coupe
    Location
    Rapid City

    Thats genius! cheaper than the non foulers too! lol
    01.5 S4 (on meth)

  8. #8
    Senior Member Three Rings JoeM's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 01 2007
    AZ Member #
    22243
    Location
    Vancouver, Wa

    I have non foulers, I tried couple different lengths till I found a set that kept it off.
    -Joe-
    '08 A4 2.0T Q
    '01 Land Rover Disco II
    '99 Porsche Boxster

  9. #9
    Veteran Member Four Rings Kievskiy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 18 2005
    AZ Member #
    8867
    My Garage
    Pair of (. )( .)
    Location
    415

    i am too drunk to read it now but , hell, thanx i will read it and do it too:))
    -Andrey

    Stanced and Tuned Brilliant Black RWD C5 A6 2.7T 6MT



    "..and those titties are the best use of bandwidth in this forum...." -Invanity

  10. #10
    Veteran Member Four Rings blmlozz's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 01 2008
    AZ Member #
    29437
    Location
    Apopka, FL

    Quote Originally Posted by Kievskiy View Post
    true.
    whats the diode mod, pls tell more or point me in that direction:)
    basically, you use a resistor to adjust the voltage of the oxygen sensor directly, instead of cutting down the flow of gas and trying to trick the O2 sensor into reading less oxygen that way.

    Diode is 100% full proof, non-fouler *usually* work. That's the difference.

  11. #11
    Senior Member Three Rings ilikeaudis's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 15 2009
    AZ Member #
    38725
    Location
    Manchestrr NH

    This is excellent... but say i didnt want to be "cheap" about it and get a tune does anyone know of an off the shelf tune to accommodate for catless dps and a cat-back exhaust for the 4.2?
    For Sale: Oem 4.2 upper and lower grilles - $100 | 0em all red c5 taillights - $100 | 4.2 rear bumber cover- $350 | Oem 4.2 sway bars|

  12. #12
    Veteran Member Four Rings blmlozz's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 01 2008
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    Location
    Apopka, FL

    Quote Originally Posted by ilikeaudis View Post
    This is excellent... but say i didnt want to be "cheap" about it and get a tune does anyone know of an off the shelf tune to accommodate for catless dps and a cat-back exhaust for the 4.2?
    none that I know of,someone else may chime in however. Although, any tuning company like JHM or 034 should be competitive with OtS an would be able to do it for you as well.
    Last edited by blmlozz; 04-01-2011 at 09:25 AM.

  13. #13
    Senior Member Three Rings JoeM's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 01 2007
    AZ Member #
    22243
    Location
    Vancouver, Wa

    Quote Originally Posted by ilikeaudis View Post
    This is excellent... but say i didnt want to be "cheap" about it and get a tune does anyone know of an off the shelf tune to accommodate for catless dps and a cat-back exhaust for the 4.2?
    Just ask if they have a test pipe file when you shop around for your chip.
    -Joe-
    '08 A4 2.0T Q
    '01 Land Rover Disco II
    '99 Porsche Boxster

  14. #14
    Registered Member One Ring
    Join Date
    Jan 19 2007
    AZ Member #
    14974
    Location
    boston

    Quote Originally Posted by jschick View Post
    I don't have a link handy but here is the text from the original link I copied some time back (sorry he refers to Pics but I only copied the text when I saved it)

    This modification very cheaply fools your secondary (post pre-cat) O2
    Sensors into thinking that there is actually a lot less oxygen present
    than there really is. Why would you want to do this modification?

    1. You're running rich
    2. Your oxygen sensors are on the fritz.
    3. You gutted your precats, took out your main cats while you were at
    it, didn't want to buy a chip and got tired of that dumb check engine
    light staring you in the face.

    (Not that I'd ever do something like #3. I'm a law abiding citizen and
    millions of whales would die if you removed your cats. Shame on you! Hehe)

    /Disclaimer: While I am an Audi technician the modifications listed here
    are not endorsed by Audi. I provide these instructions based on my own
    findings and experiments conducted outside of Audi of America, using my
    own tools in my own garage. If your car blows up after you perform this
    modification, don't go running to my dealership expecting me to fix it
    for free. They won't, and I will refuse to acknowledge that anything
    posted here was created by me./

    SO.. You removed your precats and got the dreaded "Precatalyst
    efficiency below threshold" ... well this will fix it. Chances are
    you're reading this because you're too cheap to buy a chip that would
    eliminate this problem (like me), and also too cheap to have purchased
    WAY overpriced downpipes that have secondary O2 sensor bungs that are
    behind the main cats. Or maybe you did buy those expensive downpipes and
    got rid of the main cats too.

    The first mistake people often make is trying to trick the ECM by using
    a resistor inline on the O2 sensor. After all, the "post catalytic" O2
    sensors are now outputting 0.95 volts instead of an expected 0.1 to 0.8.
    A resistor of value X, where value X is whatever your friends brothers
    son's nephew runs on his Honda with 100% success. The problem is our ECM
    uses a mega-ohm measurement device, meaning just about no matter what
    kind of resistance you put in, the full amount of voltage will still be
    seen. Remember, resistance does not drop voltage, it limits current. If
    the ECM were to apply a decent load, then resistance would inadvertently
    drop the voltage it saw. So this is the right idea, but the wrong method.

    Next mistake I've seen is a complicated circuit that takes the O2 sensor
    signals, processes them, and re-transmits them at a lower value.
    Geeze!!! Talk about overkill. While that will work, how about the most
    simple and cheap design possible.

    1 Standard Diode from radio shack, P/N: 276-1141 <pics/eng53-diode.jpg>

    The average rectifier diode is a one-way valve. It has a voltage drop
    when current passes through it, which for the sake of discussion is
    usually around 0.5 volts. There are millions of different diodes that
    can greatly alter that figure, but for our purposes we will use that
    figure because it's exactly what we need. Your precats aren't burning
    off any of those unburned hydrocarbons when they're laying in a million
    pieces in the trashcan, so there is plenty of oxygen present as far as
    the downstream O2 sensors are concerned. They're putting out 0.95 volts.
    Pass through this lovely $1.29 incarnation, and whee! It's 0.45 volts.
    What does the ECU expect? 0.45 volts is within perfect specifications.

    Common misconception:

    - The ECM measures the difference between upstream and downstream and
    calculates mixture based on that.

    Bzzt! Wrong. Maybe on some cars, but not on ours. Those downstream
    sensors serve only one purpose: Measuring the efficiency of the precats.
    They honestly don't even measure the main catalysts! Cats age and lose
    some efficiency over time. If the precats aged and the air/fuel ratio
    was based off of this, you'd eventually run pig rich or your engine
    would lean out and predetonate itself to pieces under boost. That would
    be bad, and stupid. The primary O2 sensors do a perfectly fine job
    measuring the A/F ratio results.. And that's what they do. We're not
    going to touch them.

    What we are going to do, is touch the post pre-cat O2 sensors. I have to
    call them that, because they're BEFORE the main cats, but AFTER the
    little pre-catalysts. Specifically, we're going to modify the wiring
    harness of the sensors themselves. That way if you decide you want to
    change back to completely stock, you can just put a new O2 sensor in and
    the wiring comes with it.

    Audi was nice and put the harnesses on the passenger firewall HERE
    <pics/eng53.harness.jpg>. Green and Brown are your friends. Don't touch
    the black connectors, those are your good O2 sensors and that's where
    the real magic of the engine is contained.

    Which connector is what?? The side you want to be modifying has pins in
    sticking out of the connector. If you see flat pins, you're cutting into
    the sensor side of the harness. If you see 4 flat slots for pins to go
    into, you're cutting into the ECM side. Bad!

    As you can see in the picture, I slid back the rubber boot and cut the
    BLACK wire. This is the O2 sensor (+) output. Grey is reference voltage,
    and both whites are the heater circuit. Cut the black wire, crimp in the
    diode with the silver bar facing the ECM side (towards the connector).
    If it's backwards, your ECM won't see any voltage at all. So if that
    happened, now you know why.

    Make sure you cut enough of the wire to make up for the length of the
    conglomeration. It's about 1.5" if you use two crimp connectors and cut
    the diode leads to about 0.5" long. Bonus points if you heat-shrink this
    connection, but with the rubber boot slid back around it I really don't
    think you'll have any corrosion problems here.

    Remember, silver bar on the edge of the diode is on the ECM side, not
    the sensor side. This allows positive voltage to flow from the sensor
    through the diode to the ECM.

    Repeat for both the brown and green connectors (left and right post
    pre-cat O2 sensors)

    And when you're done, the voltage drop occurs and all is good. Clear
    those codes and enjoy!

    Did someone try this yet?
    I did the mods but got these codes after that (p0141, p0161, p0140, p0160).
    I wondering what went wrong.

  15. #15
    Veteran Member Four Rings arjun90's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 27 2014
    AZ Member #
    306064
    My Garage
    2013 Audi Q5 3.0T
    Location
    NY

    Thanks for bumping this thread, I was wondering if I needed non-foulers too.
    Current:
    | Audi Q5 (B8) 2013 (3.0T, Quattro) |
    70,xxx Miles
    | Audi A6 (C6) Avant, 2010 (3.0T, Quattro) |
    182,xxx Miles
    Gone But Not Forgotten:
    | Audi A6 (C5) Avant, 2004 (3.0L, Quattro) |
    221,386 Miles [April 2014 - March 2022]
    New genuine Audi/VW parts for cheap within the US - audiusaoemparts.com
    New genuine Audi/VW parts for cheap if you can afford the wait - oemVWshop

  16. #16
    Senior Member Four Rings
    Join Date
    Jan 12 2015
    AZ Member #
    309002
    Location
    Aurora IL

    Quote Originally Posted by arjun90 View Post
    Thanks for bumping this thread, I was wondering if I needed non-foulers too.
    You do not need non-foulers. Your car is totally stock. Using non foulers on your car would just be masking a problem.
    2004 A6 S-Line

  17. #17
    Veteran Member Four Rings arjun90's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 27 2014
    AZ Member #
    306064
    My Garage
    2013 Audi Q5 3.0T
    Location
    NY

    I'll probably buy an entire magnaflow exhaust system with cat when the time comes. How many more miles do you think my vehicle can go as long as it is properly maintained?
    Current:
    | Audi Q5 (B8) 2013 (3.0T, Quattro) |
    70,xxx Miles
    | Audi A6 (C6) Avant, 2010 (3.0T, Quattro) |
    182,xxx Miles
    Gone But Not Forgotten:
    | Audi A6 (C5) Avant, 2004 (3.0L, Quattro) |
    221,386 Miles [April 2014 - March 2022]
    New genuine Audi/VW parts for cheap within the US - audiusaoemparts.com
    New genuine Audi/VW parts for cheap if you can afford the wait - oemVWshop

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