Rotors and Pads for amateur track day guy

[aaron1085]

Looking to be doing about 1-3 track days this year in the New England area. Currently, I have put on (last fall) some nice slotted and zinc coated rotors as well as Akebono Ceramic pads along with SS brake lines. My question is:

I'm unsure if using this set up on a track day is simply going to smoke these ceramic pads(tho I know they work better when warmer) and furthermore, will the zinc coating "come off" in anyway when the rotors get hot?

Should I perhaps look into getting some cheaper, more OEM rotors and some aggressive pads to use on the track? I plan on driving to events, playing, then driving back, so I don't need a full RACE set up and I am by far no professional.

Any input would help, please keep in mind I have a very average budget, though I do want the best overall set up for a decent price.

Thanks!

[aaron1085]

any input? More so worried about ruining my zinc coated/slotted rotors on the track and bubbling the Akebono cermaic pads. unsure if I should swap the whole set up out for more aggressive rotor/pad set up for track days.

[EBG 18T]

IMHO the best all around setup would be a set of the Ferrodo Ds2500. They are just fine for NHMS. I have been using the Carbotech XP8 and XP10 there which are a tad more aggressive than the Ds2500. I ran the DS2500 on my old stoptechs with good results.

The ceramic's will not hold up to NHMS.

[aaron1085]

How about rotors? Think mine will b eaten alive with those other (hard core) pads?

[EBG 18T]

How about rotors? Think mine will b eaten alive with those other (hard core) pads?

The Ferrodo Ds2500 aren't that harsh on rotors. If you are using stock size just use a basic set of centric slotted rotors. They are cheap and work just fine.

I have a seperate set of alcon rotors that i use with my track pads. So my wear characterics won't be the same.

[aaron1085]

wow, $230 for the Ferrodo Ds2500 pads...just for fronts...ouch! Any suggestions on where I can pick these up cheaper, or other pads? Unsure how much carbotech's may be, but as I said, I have slotted OEM sized rotors installed and want something that I can not worry about (heat wise) but also (rotor wise)

[EBG 18T]

wow, $230 for the Ferrodo Ds2500 pads...just for fronts...ouch! Any suggestions on where I can pick these up cheaper, or other pads? Unsure how much carbotech's may be, but as I said, I have slotted OEM sized rotors installed and want something that I can not worry about (heat wise) but also (rotor wise)

raceshopper.com usually has the best price on ferrodo. Carbotechs are a tad cheaper, but they don't have an 'inbetween' pad like the ds2500. the ds2500 you can drive on the street and use them at NHMS without issue.

Using OEM size rotors limits your options. Unfortunatly the OEM sized rotors usually just have straight vanes internals. Most of that do multiple track days a year or run in the faster run groups use the larger brake kits so we can get directional vaning and more surface are for heat disapation. The basic centric slotted rotors are consitant quality and if properly cooled will be safe to run, the other option is you dont mind spending a couple extra $ is the DBA rotors. These have a slightly better internal vaning so they will cool better. With any rotor used at the track the proper cool down is key and to make sure you park with NO e-brake (bring a tire chock)

[aaron1085]

so, I've found the DS2500 pads for $173 (fronts) and $140 (rears)....If you say they wont kill my rotors, I may purchase them. Another question is that if I buy these and swap them to drive to the events, partake, then drive home, will they need to be "bedded in" each time I swap pads?

[EBG 18T]

so, I've found the DS2500 pads for $173 (fronts) and $140 (rears)....If you say they wont kill my rotors, I may purchase them. Another question is that if I buy these and swap them to drive to the events, partake, then drive home, will they need to be "bedded in" each time I swap pads?

I have very good luck with them. Ran them on OEM sized stoptech rotors, then in my St40 332mm BBK. Never had any issues.

You can run these as a daily driver pad and at NHMS. Especially with Ferrodo you don't want to mix/match pad material on the rotors. That is a recipe for excessive pad transfer and pulsating braking. NOT good. With Ferrodo pads either run them all the time or have a 2nd set of rotors to swap that are bedded with those pads.

I keep 2 full sets of rotors around, it cost me just under $2k for extra rotors/pads, but it was worth it for me. 1 set of rotors is bedded with the XP8/XP10 and the other set is bedded with the 1521's. I will never swap back and forth on the same rotors again, I had pad transfer issues with Pagid, Ferrodo & EBC. Stick to one pad compound for 1 set of rotors.

[ECS Tuning-Audi]

EBC yellow stuff and Hawk HP plus pads are a great pad that can be used on the street and take the heat at the track.

Check them out in the links below!

EBC Yellow Stuff


Hawk HP Plus


Let me know if you have any questions.

Jason

[EBG 18T]

EBC yellow stuff and Hawk HP plus pads are a great pad that can be used on the street and take the heat at the track.

Check them out in the links below!

Let me know if you have any questions.

Jason

HP Plus will be too loud for the street & requires some heat before they brake effectivly. EBC Yellows are loud as shit, require more heat than the Ferodo DS2500, and are ultra dusty. These will also trash rotors until up to proper temperature.

Jason - Have you driven NHMS? I am assuming you realize the brake needs at NHMS versus other tracks? I ask since he won't be able to keep the EBC yellows at temp to be safe at the end of the front straight based on the power he is putting down. He just won't have enough braking cycles before the hard late braking before the left 90 deg turn into the high speed chicane which exits straight into a wall that requires a tight, but wide left turn, Again this is another location where the yellow's won't be at temp; if he overshoots it he wont have enough brake friction before the concrete wall. But again your the pro slinging pads to amateur, so i guess you know something i don't about this roadcourse.

[aaron1085]

love the replies, I need to order ASAP as the track day is June 2 and 3...as I said though, I do not have the cash to be swapping rotors AS WELL AS pads, so, I wanted some more aggressive pads to swap in that wont kill my rotors...help

[EBG 18T]

love the replies, I need to order ASAP as the track day is June 2 and 3...as I said though, I do not have the cash to be swapping rotors AS WELL AS pads, so, I wanted some more aggressive pads to swap in that wont kill my rotors...help

I am not sure how much more i can help you, there are only so many option.

I might be there instructing this year if they still need more instructors, if i see you i will swing by.

[aaron1085]

No, you have helped me alot....what I am getting at and what you agree with is that my cermaic pads which I use on the road, will get SMOKED on the track.
so...what shall I swap in their place? Ferrado or Hawk? Replacement rotors are not an option at this point.

[EBG 18T]

No, you have helped me alot....what I am getting at and what you agree with is that my cermaic pads which I use on the road, will get SMOKED on the track.
so...what shall I swap in their place? Ferrado or Hawk? Replacement rotors are not an option at this point.

If you don't mind a little brake dust on your daily driver, just run the DS2500 all the time. That was the one pad that had excellent cold friction and a very linear friction level over the full heat range. The pad material used is much less compressible than the non-track pad material from Hawk. This will yeild you a better (firmer) pedal feel. For many of that needed a pad that could hold up to track use, excellent bite for auto-x and still smooth for daily driving. From speaking to a couple freinds with Nissan GTR's alot of them are installing the DS2500 since they are lower dust than the stock pad and better friction, win-win for them.

Yes you have a very good chance of over baking your current pads.

Make sure you put fresh fluid in and bleed your brakes the week before you show up, oh and make sure you get your tech inspection done. Don't wait to the last minute.

It looks like zeckausen racing might have the best price now on Ferrodo pads. They are another big stocking retailer for Ferrodo.

[aaron1085]

check this out, sent to me from Dave at Zeckausen Racing...thoughts? This would make it possible to swap pads with seemingly no problem of brake judder/build up. http://www.zeckhausen.com/avoiding_brake_judder.htm

[ECS Tuning-Audi]

Not sure if you are aware but EBC Yellow Stuff pads do not require a warm up to perform at its best like most other race pads. They still have good bite when they are cold and are fade resistance up to 800 degrees F.

Jason

[EBG 18T]

Not sure if you are aware but EBC Yellow Stuff pads do not require a warm up to perform at its best like most other race pads. They still have good bite when they are cold and are fade resistance up to 800 degrees F.

Jason

Jason - Actually i am aware of the advertising, that is why i made the mistake of buying a set, not to mention the attractive price. I did run then at the track with mixed results. I really liked them at 2nd Creek, but when i ran them at NHMS they lacked the bite and the friction took several heat cycles to get to optimal braking at this track. They had much less cold bite than many others and a smaller working temperature range then other pads. It seems like these pads might better suited for other cars then the B6 A4. The DS2500 has better cold bite a MOT of 1000 deg F.

Do you care to post your pad preference at the different tracks? Which pad do you prefer on street compound? Which pad on r-compound? Are you recommending pads from personal expereince at these roadcourses? Or are you recommending pads based on advertising material? I sure hope it is not the latter..

[EBG 18T]

check this out, sent to me from Dave at Zeckausen Racing...thoughts? This would make it possible to swap pads with seemingly no problem of brake judder/build up. http://www.zeckhausen.com/avoiding_brake_judder.htm

That is the exact reason why i would suggested using 1 pad all the time. A properly bedded set of pads that are cooled after hard use will not create brake jutter. I actually had this issue going between SBS and CTS pads when i was using 2 types of pads and 1 set of rotors. After dealing with this on my Stoptech setup, i decided to buy a 2nd set of rotors that i keep bedded with CTS pads. Depending on the track & tires i am using i will run the XP8 or XP10 compound. Those are cross comptiable and i can run them on the same rotors. But they are not compatible with my street pads, if i didn't swap rotors and pads i would likely get brake jutter.

[ECS Tuning-Audi]

Jason - Actually i am aware of the advertising, that is why i made the mistake of buying a set, not to mention the attractive price. I did run then at the track with mixed results. I really liked them at 2nd Creek, but when i ran them at NHMS they lacked the bite and the friction took several heat cycles to get to optimal braking at this track. They had much less cold bite than many others and a smaller working temperature range then other pads. It seems like these pads might better suited for other cars then the B6 A4. The DS2500 has better cold bite a MOT of 1000 deg F.

Do you care to post your pad preference at the different tracks? Which pad do you prefer on street compound? Which pad on r-compound? Are you recommending pads from personal expereince at these roadcourses? Or are you recommending pads based on advertising material? I sure hope it is not the latter..

I see, I've personally used EBC yellow stuff pads and thought they held up great for the tracks that I have driven and the duties of daily driving. I'm not too familiar with the NHMS track but from what you are saying it would involve a very unique pad due to its characteristics. I've never driven a track on r- compounds so I cannot comment on my preference due to lack of experience. If I were to use r-compounds I would have to do some researching oh what kind of pad would best fit my needs. Obviously if I'm running on r- compounds I'll be looking at a full race pad and to begin with. I might consider the Hawk Blues that we carry simply because they are easily available to me through ECS.

Jason

[aaron1085]

I am NOT running r-compound tires and the goal is to find a pad that will be good on tracks including NHMS, Limerock and Watkins Glenn as those are the tracks nearest to me and the ones I would likely attend.

[aaron1085]

so, its either straight race pads for OEM 2007 A4 2.0T front and rear fitment, or a dual use pad that I would run all the time,,,such as Ferrado DS2500 or Stop Tech. Thoughts?

Running Akebono ceramics for street and swtiching to something like Ferrado will cause problems with brake judder, etc...so either I run something more aggressive at track, or find a dual use pad for ALL uses (street and track).

I need to get on this ASAP, so help me out folks...whats EBC got?

[B6JoeS4]

You will be very happy with the Ferrado DS2500. They dust more than a ceramic but they are not loud, and they have a very uniform feel to them. dparm over in the B6/7 S4 section runs them on track days and he has no problems. They are also the go-to pad for Evo guys. Evo guys get boners when they see 2500's. Dusting will be about the same/slightly less than OEM Padgid's

IMO, don't listen to ECS......they don't sell Ferodo. He's just making the sale.

Hawk HP Plus is like the HPS on steroids. They're noisier and more aggressive and dust more than the HPS, but just like the HPS, when their MOT of 750 is exceed, they lose almost all bite. Oh and they kill rotors.
EBC Yellow stuff are really just not a good pad. Lower bite than the HP Plus. Dust more than the HP Plus. And they sound like a cat being electrocuted.

[aaron1085]

any thoughts on StopTech pads? specific suggestions required

[aaron1085]

Does anyone know what kind of AVERAGE temperature brake pads will get to during a 20min session while mounted on a 2007 A4? I'm no race car driver, more of a beginner/intermediate track day guy (1-2 events per summer). But some pads will say they have a max temp of 500 degrees where at which point, there is a chance of boiling or melting the pad...

anyone?!

[aaron1085]

NEW DILEMMA:
I had the local shop install my new tires (Hankook R-S3) and new SS brake lines. I currently have stock rotors and (will not name) brand of ceramic pads I've been using for street duty. I am attending a track event next week (June 2&3) and took the car for a warm up session today on some roads in my town.

I experienced SEVERE brake fade after 15 minutes of just hard driving and braking; with the pedal nearly hitting the floor. I'm wondering if it may be more due to the ceramic pads, as they aren't race quality, thoguh I would expect atleast an OEM feel out of them...or perhaps this issue may be more in line with the fact that there may be some air in the brake lines and they need to be re-bled...

Once I cruised down the main road a few times and let the brakes cool, the pedal felt fine as it seemed either the pads cooled, or pressure rebuilt in the lines.

PLEASE HELP...thoughts?! suggestions?

[EBG 18T]

You are kinda stuck now. The ferrodo DS2500 would be the pad of choice for NHMS and daily driver. Especially since you bumped up the hankook RS3. You will crumble the generic cermamic pads next weekend.

[aaron1085]

yea well...i tried a few sources and they all wanted to ass rape me with shipping due to my procrastination so... the company of cermaic pads i have shipped me a brand new set (front and rear) so, I will bring those with me in case i need to swap out.... hope not.

[aaron1085]

So. I've finished day 1 at NH Motor Speedway. I had little confidence in the brakes, but they actualy did fairly well. I continue to have a slightly soft pedal. I have a fear this may be due to my local shop not bleeding the lines enough (though they tried 3 times)......

I just feel like the pedal could be ALOT harder. Thoughts?

[swoardrider]

You are going to get some flex from having the shitty stock calipers, plus you might be getting some compression out of the pad, especially if there is any rubber-like backing on the pad's back plate. If you continue to run track days, start thinking about upgrading to a BBK. Your life will thank you for it!

[aaron1085]

yea, I hear ya. I'mnot ready for a BBK yet just because of $$ and I like to run 17's in the winter and onthe track. I thinkthe stock calipers will be okfor a bit longer as many guys with my similar car (in the A4 line up) areusing stock calipers with better pads. It's annoying to have such a spongey pedal,but my buddy just got a power bleeder, so I think I am going to try that next week.

Anything special to know?! Ithink Audi suggests having the ignition turned to 'ON' when bleeding.

[EBG 18T]

So. I've finished day 1 at NH Motor Speedway. I had little confidence in the brakes, but they actualy did fairly well. I continue to have a slightly soft pedal. I have a fear this may be due to my local shop not bleeding the lines enough (though they tried 3 times)......

I just feel like the pedal could be ALOT harder. Thoughts?

Bleed them again. If you want to keep the stock calipers look into the tyloll caliper stiffening kit. Good bang for the buck.