B6/B7 S4 Timing Chain FAQ / Information / Discussion Thread

[Terry.Reese]

any problems that you can tell? the correct guide has a nipple for the oil to flow.

[2004B6S4]

no, no problems. the old version of that guide does have a nipple and a passageway that looks like it was meant for oil to flow through it but the hole on the head where that nipple plugs into is just a dead end, there's no oil coming through it. there's even an o-ring around that nipple but it doesn't do anything other than possibly provide more support as a mount.

[Terry.Reese]

Hmmm.

[Dagear]

When installing the mechanical adjusters the manual states to rotate the inner and outer portions to the lock position.

Then on the next line it mentions that the inner and outer portions must not be allowed to be against each other in the lock position.

So do I just need to make sure that they are rotated to the lock position?

[2004B6S4]

When installing the mechanical adjusters the manual states to rotate the inner and outer portions to the lock position.

Then on the next line it mentions that the inner and outer portions must not be allowed to be against each other in the lock position.

So do I just need to make sure that they are rotated to the lock position?

I think you're misunderstanding that next line. On my instructions it says "You should not be able to turn inner and l outer sections in opposite directions once they have engaged " which is just explaining they should be locked together once they're engaged.

so yes, just make sure they're rotated to the locked position

[Dagear]

That makes sense, I think My copy of manual is missing the word "rotate"

"Inner part and outer part must not be able to be against each other in lock position (slight play can still be felt)."

[2004B6S4]

That makes sense, I think My copy of manual is missing the word "rotate"

"Inner part and outer part must not be able to be against each other in lock position (slight play can still be felt)."

oh then forgive me for saying you misunderstood, it's your manuals fault!


I just came across a very informative video that explains a lot about the motor and how it's timed. It may have been posted somewhere on this site already, but this is the first time I've seen it and I thought it would be good for this thread. Anyone who hasn't actually pulled their motor and gotten into it yet but is thinking about or planning to do this job would probably benefit from seeing this, I know it would've helped me because I was still not 100% clear on how everything works until after I took it all apart, this video would've been good to see beforehand cuz imo it really helps to actually see it being done while it's being explained rather than just reading about it.

here it is: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9kox1RnMHfc

[Terry.Reese]

those parts should be interchangeable. ETKA lists the updated s4 guides for the newer vins only, but they are 100% compatible with the older vins. I'd assume the rs4 guide 059109469E is the same way and works on all bhf/bbk engines. My vin is below 200000 and I used 079109469AD just because I didn't know 059109469E was an option.

Thanks for that info, i have both so if the RS4 one doesnt work I have the original on hand to use.

[Dagear]

oh then forgive me for saying you misunderstood, it's your manuals fault!


I just came across a very informative video that explains a lot about the motor and how it's timed. It may have been posted somewhere on this site already, but this is the first time I've seen it and I thought it would be good for this thread. Anyone who hasn't actually pulled their motor and gotten into it yet but is thinking about or planning to do this job would probably benefit from seeing this, I know it would've helped me because I was still not 100% clear on how everything works until after I took it all apart, this video would've been good to see beforehand cuz imo it really helps to actually see it being done while it's being explained rather than just reading about it.

here it is: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9kox1RnMHfc

No problem I.have 2 different manuals and difficult to folow some of the diagrams



Sent from my SM-G920V using Audizine mobile app

[Doctor.ventil]

Hi @ll.

First of all thanks a lot for such a great source of valuable information.

Just purchased my Audi S4 B6 and now I have the engine out to make a timing chain change etc... of course I also investigated on cam shaft adjusters and would like to know you opinion about their current condition.

The car is 250 000 km (~155 000 miles) on tacho and they look like bellow. According to what I saw on JHM's web page they seem to be normally worn - do I really need to change them? The hole is 0,9mm out of ideal round shape. It is still a lot of money to change at the same moment I see the unique chance to change it as I hope engine will never come out again...

Thanks for your thoughts.


http://imgur.com/a/xWuni

[2004B6S4]

Hi @ll.

First of all thanks a lot for such a great source of valuable information.

Just purchased my Audi S4 B6 and now I have the engine out to make a timing chain change etc... of course I also investigated on cam shaft adjusters and would like to know you opinion about their current condition.

The car is 250 000 km (~155 000 miles) on tacho and they look like bellow. According to what I saw on JHM's web page they seem to be normally worn - do I really need to change them? The hole is 0,9mm out of ideal round shape. It is still a lot of money to change at the same moment I see the unique chance to change it as I hope engine will never come out again...

Thanks for your thoughts.


http://imgur.com/a/xWuni

I had one that looked about like your 2nd pic and I decided to replace just to be extra safe and ensure that it wouldn't need to come out in the future. realistically though it's probably not necessary. The wear doesn't become a problem at all until it's so bad that the pin won't stay in the hole, and it'll probably last a long time before that happens. Even if that does happen it won't hurt anything, assuming the rest of the timing components are in good shape. It would just hurt performance and sound like crap until you pull the motor again to replace it.

[Mike50design]

For anyone interested in a walkthrough on pulling the engine without a car hoist, here's one that I just made today while pulling the motor to service the timing chains:

https://youtu.be/FBssQnPTHjI

Hopefully this helps some of you guys :)

[roboto_1337]

For anyone interested in a walkthrough on pulling the engine without a car hoist, here's one that I just made today while pulling the motor to service the timing chains:

https://youtu.be/FBssQnPTHjI

Hopefully this helps some of you guys :)

Nice Video! I did things a little differently, mind you my abilities aren't honed in any way shape or form. I was more worried about alignment afterwords so I didn't drop the sub-frame, however it does seem like it would take a lot of fun out of wrestling the motor out of the car. I also only removed the axles, not the whole knuckle. I do like your method for removing the shifter linkage and slave cylinder, I feel that will save a lot of headaches.

Well done.

[Mike50design]

Nice Video! I did things a little differently, mind you my abilities aren't honed in any way shape or form. I was more worried about alignment afterwords so I didn't drop the sub-frame, however it does seem like it would take a lot of fun out of wrestling the motor out of the car. I also only removed the axles, not the whole knuckle. I do like your method for removing the shifter linkage and slave cylinder, I feel that will save a lot of headaches.

Well done.

Thank's eh. I was a little concerned about alignemnt, until I found out that there are alignement holes that center the subframe and motor mounts to the body. Basically its a tab with a hole on the body, motor mount, and subframe on either side of the car. You just have to stick an alignment tool (Or a piece of roundbar with the right diameter) through all three tabs on both sides of the car when bolting everything back together. This isn't the exact tool for our cars, but it's very similar: https://www.ecstuning.com/b-genuine-...ool-pair/3393/

[roboto_1337]

Thank's eh. I was a little concerned about alignemnt, until I found out that there are alignement holes that center the subframe and motor mounts to the body. Basically its a tab with a hole on the body, motor mount, and subframe on either side of the car. You just have to stick an alignment tool (Or a piece of roundbar with the right diameter) through all three tabs on both sides of the car when bolting everything back together. This isn't the exact tool for our cars, but it's very similar: https://www.ecstuning.com/b-genuine-...ool-pair/3393/

I did not know that! I love learning new things about our cars


Sent from my iPhone using Audizine

[neilpaku]

I used a piece of wooden dowel I had lying around

[Mike50design]

I used a piece of wooden dowel I had lying around

I just reinstalled the motor this weekend and discovered that a couple of long 14mm sockets works perfectly for aligning the subframe.

[niston]

Holy fuck!

I bought a factory new engine 8 months ago and had it installed. I have since changed the oil twice, at 1000Km from factory filling to Castrol Edge Titanium FST 5W40 and at 4000Km from Castrol to Motul 8100 Xcess 5W40.

Today, I made this video:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GE2RINcIfVA

The engine has 5950Km on it now - That's like, just a shy bit short of 3700 miles!

Just glad it's still under warranty!

[VinnysS4]

Why not buy an accusump and fit it to your new engine? That would be the bees knees. No need to worry about startup rattle. ...

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-N900A using Audizine mobile app

[niston]

Why not buy an accusump and fit it to your new engine?

In fact, I'm considering it. After the chain drive has been serviced and before the engine is put back in place.

I still find this failure within less than 3700mi absolutely remarkable. It's like winning the fucking space lottery or something.

No really, just imagine it had failed after warranty expired (4000Km/4 Months left). Guess I should consider myself lucky, eh?

On the upside, I'll be able to upgrade my B6 to the B7 intake system at the same time: Swapping one of the AC hard lines, installing the B7 airbox and the additional snorkel and, quite possibly, the flapper for that snorkel.

Perhaps also upgrade the shifter linkage with the JHM stuff.

[VinnysS4]

That's awesome that it's under warranty. Can you upgrade to the RS4 guides and retain the warranty? If I remember right, Audi claims a 2 second rattle on Startup is normal. Hopefully they don't give you a hard time about fixing it.

Have you considered replacing the power steering lines while you're in there? They often fail and are hard to remove and install with the engine fitted. Mine burst 3 weeks after putting my engine back in.
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-N900A using Tapatalk

[niston]

Good point. In fact, there's a small leak at the hose that connects to the power steering oil cooler. This will also need to be adressed.

Fun story: I too had a hose burst about 3 weeks after the new engine was installed. But it was a coolant hose, the short one from the return pipe along the engine to the water pump.

Back when the new engine was installed, I had the PS pump, the clutch, the flywheel, the ausrueckgarnitur (dunno the English word for it, it's the bearing and stuff that actuates the clutch) as well as the hydraulic cylinder for the clutch done.

The new engine came complete with new throttle valve, intake manifold, injectors, secondary air valves (kombiventile), coil on plugs, water pump, coolant piping, coolant temp sensor, and what not. The only things missing were basically AC compressor, PS pump and generator.

This generator, of course, is now also failing (it's the inferior DELPHI version) and producing loud whining noise between 2200 and 4000 RPM (it drowns in the engine noise on higher revs). That shit part will need to be replaced, too, at CHF 1800 a pop (including coolant pipes upgrade from DELPHI to HITACHI).

The PS pump (that didnt comre with the engine, but that I still had to replace simply because the old one was fucked) did clock in at an extra 1400 or so.


You see, this car is my little BITCH PRINCESS: There's always some issue, which tends to end in a bunch of zeros. BUT DAMN, IT'S FUN TO RIDE!

https://imgur.com/a/nUgd0

[QIKRNU]

Throwout bearing, etc.

[niston]

Throwout bearing, etc.

Yes, that seems right :)

[QIKRNU]

Perhaps pilot bearing as well.

[niston]

That's awesome that it's under warranty. Can you upgrade to the RS4 guides and retain the warranty?

Do you have more info about the RS4 guides?

I was in fact thinking of trying guides from the V6 TDI, as they appear to be extremely similar and also the lower part of the TDI chain drive (everything except cam shaft drives) looks very similar to the 4.2 V8 - If not exactly the same. The TDI guides in question are however plastic (makrolon or whatever they use) on metal, as opposed to the S4 full plastic ones.

Not sure about warranty. I'd guess it be voided upon modification, but maybe an arragement can be made with the supplier.

[VinnysS4]

The RS4 guides are metal bodied. Parts numbers are located earlier in this thread. They look like this 20170729_152718.jpg

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-N900A using Audizine mobile app

[niston]

Thats also exactly what the lower left and upper center of the main drive guides from the V6 TDI look like. But the V6 I think has only two guides to offer, for the middle chain. I see the RS4 also has to offer metal guides for the camshaft chains.

I will definately want to put those RS4 ones in place of all the plastic only crap.

Thanks for pointing this out :D

[Hatchet21]

Hi All,

I viewed a 2004 S4 today, should I be worried about the noise here....just about audible towards the end of the video, vaguely like chain noise or am I being paranoid (no history of chains being replaced), car on 95k.....

https://youtu.be/AklwnX4Xl8I

Opinions please!

Thanks,
Harry

[niston]

@VinnyS4 I take it, there's no suitable metal-body replacement for the remaining two plastic guides (black ones in the camshaft drives)? Those from the TDI sure won't work.

@Hatchet21 Sounds to me like there is indeed a problem. Also, the mysterious ticking noise is permanent and not only during startup, so.... Might wanna pass on this one perhaps.

Unless you've got excess money to throw at it. Which it'll likely gobble up in no time, remaining ever hongry for more... At least that's how it happened to me!

[VinnysS4]

Hi All,

I viewed a 2004 S4 today, should I be worried about the noise here....just about audible towards the end of the video, vaguely like chain noise or am I being paranoid (no history of chains being replaced), car on 95k.....

https://youtu.be/AklwnX4Xl8I

Opinions please!

Thanks,
Harry

To me it sounds more like the intake flapper. If you manually move the intake flapper arm, the sound should go away

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-N900A using Tapatalk

[VinnysS4]

@VinnyS4 I take it, there's no suitable metal-body replacement for the remaining two plastic guides (black ones in the camshaft drives)? Those from the TDI sure won't work.

@Hatchet21 Sounds to me like there is indeed a problem. Also, the mysterious ticking noise is permanent and not only during startup, so.... Might wanna pass on this one perhaps.

Not that I am aware of no. I haven't ever heard of them failing either tho...

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-N900A using Tapatalk

[niston]

Not that I am aware of no. I haven't ever heard of them failing either tho...

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-N900A using Tapatalk

Alright. Tho I'd feel so much better if perhaps JHM made some that I could buy. :p

Thanks again for the pic. Looks gorgeous! I'll have the same, please :D

[VinnysS4]

Heh. No problem! I bet someone could make some billet aluminum ones. .... problem would be the R+D cost

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-N900A using Audizine mobile app

[niston]

Yeah.. And on second thought, the tensioners would also need a metal-body upgrade. No easy feat I suppose.

[niston]

To me it sounds more like the intake flapper. If you manually move the intake flapper arm, the sound should go away

Could be, tho to my ears, the ticking is too "metallic" to originate from the intake flapper. I'd be certainly interested in the manually-move-the-arm-test results, too!

[Hatchet21]

Could be, tho to my ears, the ticking is too "metallic" to originate from the intake flapper. I'd be certainly interested in the manually-move-the-arm-test results, too!

Thanks for the responses guys....

@niston - I was more referring to the faint slap type sound in the back ground.....do we think the metallic noise is also a issue, don't they all sound a bit like that?
@VinnysS4 - I would have to go back and view the car again to do this, which i was hoping not to have to do as its around 2 hours away. Shame really as the car is pretty nice other than this and with the chain issues it scared me off a bit. Could try and get the owner to move the arm and video it.....see how that goes down!

[VinnysS4]

Thanks for the responses guys....

@niston - I was more referring to the faint slap type sound in the back ground.....do we think the metallic noise is also a issue, don't they all sound a bit like that?
@VinnysS4 - I would have to go back and view the car again to do this, which i was hoping not to have to do as its around 2 hours away. Shame really as the car is pretty nice other than this and with the chain issues it scared me off a bit. Could try and get the owner to move the arm and video it.....see how that goes down!

Some of these cars last 150k or more miles without having the chains serviced. Most need it around 100k. I bought mine with 92k and it was parked very shortly after and I had a broken chain guide. This is a common story among the community. If the price is right, I don't see it as a tough job, but some may. It just gets expensive with all the "while you're in there and the engine is out" stuff.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-N900A using Tapatalk

[Hatchet21]

Some of these cars last 150k or more miles without having the chains serviced. Most need it around 100k. I bought mine with 92k and it was parked very shortly after and I had a broken chain guide. This is a common story among the community. If the price is right, I don't see it as a tough job, but some may. It just gets expensive with all the "while you're in there and the engine is out" stuff.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-N900A using Tapatalk

Agreed, i think my main concern is that it's fairly strong money for one that hasn't had the chains done, so don't really want to have to do it within a short period of ownership....tough decision ahead....

[niston]

@Hatchet21 The noise I mean is faint, intermittent, tick---tick------tick-tick----tick--... Sounds kinda metallic to me. As in something goes on metal. Or metal onto something. Tick, tick.