B7 A4 Tiptronic - ATF Replacement

[swsherif]

Just a question here Phil, why you did not use the 8mm drain plug to drain the transmission fluid before removing the oil pan. ?

[fly300kts]

I just forgot to add the step but yes I did that first
Just made the correction, Sorry

Phil

[swsherif]

Not a problem man, I should have expecting that myself but I was just clearing everything out before I do it myself, my car has 165,000 KM on it now without Trans, oil change.
Another question, how important changing the filter, because that is why the oil pan has to be removed. Do you think it is not enough going the easy way, drain from the drain plug then pump the new oil from the refill plug without the filter? At least it would be better than leaving the fluid for life time
How difficult inserting the pumping hose in the right direction?
Thanks Phile

[fly300kts]

Not a problem man, I should have expecting that myself but I was just clearing everything out before I do it myself, my car has 165,000 KM on it now without Trans, oil change.
Another question, how important changing the filter, because that is why the oil pan has to be removed. Do you think it is not enough going the easy way, drain from the drain plug then pump the new oil from the refill plug without the filter? At least it would be better than leaving the fluid for life time
How difficult inserting the pumping hose in the right direction?
Thanks Phile

The tricky part might be the filling process. The pan filter is a walk in the park and without question, I would replace the filter. If you check closely the pictures, you will see the pick up entry at the end of the filter: Check the color difference between the old one and the new one. Plus, the deposit on the magnets is microscopic and I am sure that this deposit has clogged the filter so to answer, I would not do this process without replacing the filter
Inserting the hose is really easy once you figured out the right position during the initial filling

Phil

[swsherif]

Thanks for clearing that out for me. I just called the dealer they give me prices as follow
Oil is $64/ littler and they said I will need almost 9 litters to fill it up (can you verify that pls) total is $576
Gasket is $60.28
Filter is $108.27
labore 2.5 hours
Total parts is 744.55 I remember you just said around $350 total for parts. I am in Ontario Canada though.

[swsherif]

I even called the USA dealer they even gave me higher prices, and said exactly the same it takes 9 litter for full fill, am I missing something here, because I saw you purchased the parts or $350 , thanks

[JPT]

Don't know Audi autos well enough yet... But if it is like other auto's, the torque converter will have fluid in there, so there usually are 2 numbers reported, full and refill, because when you drain the oil, you aren't removing the fluid from the converter.

[swsherif]

That is make sense, but since we are doing all this work we might as well find out the best way to flush the whole system including the converter and refill it with brand new fluid , is there any way of doing that?

[JPT]

That is make sense, but since we are doing all this work we might as well find out the best way to flush the whole system including the converter and refill it with brand new fluid , is there any way of doing that?

A transmission flush... not drain and refill... unless you want to pull the transmission you have no way of removing the fluid out of the torque converter. This is from my knowledge of transmissions in general... not Audi trans. To do a flush, you need machines that are typically bought by shops.

[rs6]

Here's a big money saving tip: You can get the OEM fluid from ZF at $32/Liter list price. Some discounters have it for less. It's called ZF Lifeguard Fluid 6. The bottle is even identical, except without the Audi label.

EDIT: I did some researching and it does appear that ZF is not clear about which fluid to use. Depending on which ZF documentation you read, your car may need LG6, LG6+, or LG8 (and each has a different tint). The stuff used in this writeup is the same as LG8, which can be had at thctsc.com for $35/liter.

Safest thing to do is get the model and serial number from the transmission housing, give the info to your Audi parts guy and buy OE fluid.

[null]

Here's a big money saving tip: You can get the OEM fluid from ZF at $32/Liter list price. Some discounters have it for less. It's called ZF Lifeguard Fluid 6. The bottle is even identical, except without the Audi label.

EDIT: I did some researching and it does appear that ZF is not clear about which fluid to use. Depending on which ZF documentation you read, your car may need LG6, LG6+, or LG8 (and each has a different tint). The stuff used in this writeup is the same as LG8, which can be had at thctsc.com for $35/liter.

Safest thing to do is get the model and serial number from the transmission housing, give the info to your Audi parts guy and buy OE fluid.

Great tip! Offcourse Audi is only making the labels for the stuff. Cut the middle man and get lower cost. I called the dealer and they said my tran code is HHL and told me to use the fluid Phil used. I see that ECS now carries the ZF8 fluid and the KIT gasket + filter also made by ZF. So seems like a better deal on the same parts.

Price from dealer:

Sub Total: $361.16
Total: $361.16

+ shipping + taxes
----------------------------------------
Price from ECS

Sub Total: $309.77
Shipping: $18.91
Sales Tax: $0.00
Total: $328.68

So is it a no brainer to buy from ECS ?

[mr shickadance]

hey phil,

just wondering bc when i did my gear oil change (i know i have a 6 speed and this is for tips) but im thinking that your fill plug in picture 5 may not be the right 'phil' plug.....seehwatididtherE?

kidding aside there is a 10mm allan bolt to the side that you can see very easily in the same picture (#5), just above where you identified the fill plug i think thats the correct fill plug

my reasoning for it is bc on the 6speed gear box you use the same exact bolt as the fill plug

any thoughts on it?

[rs6]

You're correct, that is also a fill plug. You can use that (easier) or the one Phil used.

[siryova]

This DIY is only for Tiptronic or CVT too.

Looking information for ATF replacement on CVT and no look.

[null]

Phil - I found another excellent post from you! I trust your posts completely and hope you can answer few of my questions about confusion with VAG part #s

I have the same auto 6 speed tranny and ETKA is showing G-052-145-S2 as the oil to use. I called the dealer and they confirmed that my code is HHL and I need to use G060162A2 - the same one you used. I started to research this HHL tranny and found out that it's a ZF6HP19A transmission made by ZF.

ZF website say the following for ZF6HP19A
all 6HP19
6HP19A(2) (trans parts list dependent)
ZF LifeGuard6 (ZF No. S671 090 255)
=> Audi Oil No. G 055005 A1 / A2 / A6

Split oil supply front / rear axle differential:
- Filling front axle differential with transmission oil Castrol SAF-AG4
=> Audi / VW Oil No. N 052145000, Porsche Oil No. 999.917.545.00)
- Filling rear axle differential with transmission oil Castrol SAF-AG4 Q (SAF-AG4 + 4% FM Additive)
=> Audi / VW Oil No. G 055145 A2)
Common oil supply front /rear axle differential:
- Filling with transmission oil Castrol SAF-AG4 Q (SAF-AG4 + 4% FM Additive) => Audi / VW Oil No. G 055145 A2

So the G 055145 A2 is a bit cheaper and it's the ZF6 kind, where there are posts saying to use zf8 is it the G060162A2 ?

Furthermore.. I read this post about about same part# tranny ZF6HP19A that was also used in Phaeton:

So the questions are:

is the G060162A2 is for sure the right fluid to use?
is it worth the risk to buy cheaper but generic ZF fluid?
is it needed to change fluid 2 times to get rid of old fluid in tranny(read post below)?
is any software flash needed to use newer G060162A2 fluid?

Thanks in advance! !




-------------------------- read post that i found ----------------------------------

This is only from my experience and according to my understanding, so please use your own judgment as well.

Phaeton’s transmission ZF 6HP-19A, is very sensitive to ATF. the part number in ETKA got updated at one point, it is now showing as G060162A2, but the original factory filled ATF is not G060162A2, and VW didn’t bother to notify the dealer that this change took place. And once you changed the ATF, Since the usual way for dealer to change ATF is to drop the pan, drain the fluid, and replace the filter can only get rid of about 40% of the fluid, once different types of ATF got mixed, that’s not what you want. For this transmission, the clutch will burn due to mismatch ATF type, and will require a software update to the TCM.

That is what happened to me, but at that time neither the dealer nor I know this, until I found out through the hard way: my transmission starts to shift strangely, then I found the info on this forum and provided it to the dealer and push them to check with VW. I even scanned my car with Vag-Com and provided them the ECM and TCM software version number, along with the email I got from ZF which confirmed an software update is needed once ATF got changed.

So the solution the dealer got from VW is this: Change the ATF one more time after driven certain Kms, drain the old fluid, refill with G060162A2 again and then update the TCM, according to VW, this should correct the problem, It will drain about 80% of the old fluid, and the TCM software version is brought from 1003 to 1905 in order to adjust to the new type of ATF.

So, in conclusion, below is the procedure done on my car:
-----------------------------------
Part 1 of Transmission Service Units:

Perform Automatic Transmission Service:
Service includes filter, fluid and new pan gasket,
Change automatic transmission fluid and filter.
Replace rear differential fluid.

QTY Part Number Description
1 01V-321-379 Washer
1 09L-321-371 Gasket
1 09L-325-429 Strainer
1 G-052-145-S2 Axle Oil
1 G-052-145-A1 Axle Oil
6 G-060-162-A2 ATF Oil
-----------------------------------
Part 2 of Transmission Service as per VW QTM

(Only after car been driven by customer for 500 miles since the first service):

Change fluid for second time (No need to replace the filter or pan gasket) and top up.
Perform TCM software update as per QTM.
QTY Part Number Description
6 G-060-162-A2 ATF Oil
VW Tele-update TCM Module

-------------------------------------- end of post i found about phaeton ------------------------------------------------------------------------

[null]

This is another post I found on audi-forums.com
------------------------------------------------------------
1. Check the oil level

2. Read save assess the MVB 73-77 (only possible from MY 2006)

3. Reset the adaptation values through a software update or by deleting them (possible from MY 2006).

4. Adaptation of the gearbox control unit: (adaptation journey)

Detailed information:

3. Deleting adaptation values: (from MY 2006)

The values must be deleted after repairs to clutch, complaints about the shift comfort and major engine repairs.

Save MVB 73-77 before the deletion. If the adaptation journey is not successful, the old MVB can point towards the cause.


a) 10-adjustment -> channel 1 -> memory -> accept -> confirm.

The adaptation counter in MVB 73-77 (2nd digit) should now be on '0


4. Adaptation drive:

Note: For vehicles from MY 06 the deletion and the adaptation drive can be performed with the guided fault finding.

With vehicles up to MY 05 proceed as follows


ATF change:

Flush out the system to remove any old ATF (e.g. from the converter).

1. Drain the ATF and fill in new ATF (blue, G 055 162 A...). Check and correct the ATF level


Raise the vehicle about 10 to 20 cm.

All four wheels do not touch the ground any more.



Never run the engine without ATF and do not tow the vehicle.

Important: Do not drive faster than 50 km/h.

2. Observe the display of the driving modes in the combination instrument. Start the engine and release the handbrake.

3. Put the gear lever to position "D" while pressing the brake pedal. Carefully press the accelerator.

4. Carefully accelerate in "D" to maximum 50km/h and hold this speed for several seconds.

5. Carefully press the brake pedal and stop the vehicle.

6. Put the gear lever in position "R". Accelerate to 20 km/h and hold this speed for several seconds.

7. Carefully press the brake pedal and stop the vehicle.

8. Put the gear lever in position "D" and repeat steps 3 to 7 five times.

9. When the vehicle is stationary, put the gear lever in position "P" and switch off the engine.

10. Drain the ATF and fill in new ATF (blue, G 055 162 A...). Check and correct the ATF level

Adaptation drive:

Note: For vehicles from MY 06 the deletion and the adaptation drive can be performed with the guided fault finding.

With older vehicles proceed as follows:

1. Warm up the gearbox with low engine performance till the ATF temperature reaches 60°C (ATF temperature must be below 100°C).

2. At stationary vehicle - idle speed, brakes applied, switch from N to D and hold for about 3 seconds. Repeat five times.

Perform the same procedure from N to R.

3. Shift from 1st to 2nd while driving at low load and shift down from 2nd to 1st. Repeat 5 times.

4. Drive at low load (engine torque between 80 Nm and 100 Nm, see 02 automatic gearbox, MVB 09, 1st display value) till the transmission has shifted to 6th gear (vehicle speed about 80 - 100 km/h) and stay in this condition for about 30 - 60 seconds. Let the vehicle roll to standstill (with gentle brake application at the end). Repeat four times (the aim is to shift up and down at very little load).

[null]

http://www.ecstuning.com/Audi-B7_A4-...ols/ES2581619/

ECS is selling this KIT from what seems like ZF manufacturer? Same one as the maker of the tranny itself?

[fly300kts]

I respect your reseach but here is my phylosophy:
Tranny fluid replacement is not required every day so why even take the risk of replacing a fluid by a non OEM product that might mess your expensive tranny?
No brainer for me, I went OEM

Phil

[wootwoot]

I respect your reseach but here is my phylosophy:
Tranny fluid replacement is not required every day so why even take the risk of replacing a fluid by a non OEM product that might mess your expensive tranny?
No brainer for me, I went OEM

Phil

What makes OEM Audi fluid so special? I have flushed ATF fluid on numerous other cars with aftermarket fluid without issue. I wouldn't call it a no brainer when audi taxes you so badly on ATF fluid.

[B72011]

Get the part # for the fluid from your dealer (they'll ask for your VIN) then go to www.ctsc.com and look it up for the 6HP19A2 transmission. The transmission is a ZF built unit and the fluid that Audi uses is from ZF (with a new label applied) and is avail from CTSC. They sell it by the bottle or in a pack of 12 at close to $20/liter!--which saves like $25 a liter vs the dealer when bought in bulk. Let me know if youd like to buy 6 bottles from me--I'll order 12 and then ship the 6 to you. We can split the cost of shipping.
Total would be $122 plus taxes and shipping costs (we'll split the costs from CTSC to me) and you pay what it costs to go from me to you.
It would probably be about $160 total.......thats a savings of about $150 or more vs dealer sourcing.

[null]

One more question: since more fluid leaks out when engine is hot, is it better to drain when engine is piping hot, then wait till it cools off? and fill more? Since I will be doing it in the garage i can leave car over night for it to cool down?

[null]

I need g060162a2 fluid my code is hhl.$160 sounds good.

[null]

alright I went and ordered from ecs, ended up spending$500 there but its already all with shipping and no tax. not going to split 12pak anymore

[B72011]

$300+when you could have paid $160 for the same stuff? Hhahha man............some people. Oh well, you can lead a horse...............aw forget it.

[null]

So everything arrived from ecs.

i'm happy to report that the stuff ecs sells is EXACT same as OEM. The fluid bottles are Identical minus the fancy OOOO sticker. Same goes for the filter - Made in Germany. ECS carries the kit: Filter + gasket and its only $99. Also - i found a coupon for the fluid pump that HarborFreight.com sells, making it just $4 - check retailmenot for it.

@B7xxxx sorry dude, its a great deal you're offering, but i was already buying stuff from ecs and i didn't hear from ya - so i pulled the trigger on ecs.

Funny but my cars tranny stopped twitching once I got all the stuff... i have 72K on the car and I recently had APR stage I tune. Phil or anybody else, whats your take? Should I just change the fluid or milk the current fluid for more months.. it doesn't seem to twitch as it used to anymore.. ?

[DownUnderSLine]

I've been doing my homework on this topic as I need to do the job....

My B7 has a build date of FEB 2005 and has the HHL (6HP-19A) transmission.

From what I've researched to date, the trans in early B7s came out with the Yellow(Gold) fluid (G 055005 A1 / A2 / A6) but the recommendation today is that the Green fluid (G060162A2 / ZF8), however, this requires a TCM software update....

Has anyone done this fluid flush with the green fluid and NOT done the software update ? Any negatives / issue encountered ?

TIA.

[null]

Unless you know how and have the tools to update the software, DO NOT use any other tran fluid from what dealer advices. I used yellow fluid, the generic ZF fluid is Exactly the same as what Audi sells with a hefty markup. ECS kit was perfect - its only $99 filter + gasket. After the operation the shifting is much smoother - do it!

[DownUnderSLine]

Unless you know how and have the tools to update the software, DO NOT use any other tran fluid from what dealer advices. I used yellow fluid, the generic ZF fluid is Exactly the same as what Audi sells with a hefty markup. ECS kit was perfect - its only $99 filter + gasket. After the operation the shifting is much smoother - do it!

Thanks for the clarification. I will do exactly that.... (Gold ZF fluid, no software update...)

So what is the consensis on the amount needed ? 5 to 6 ltrs as detailed in this DIY ?? (ECS kits include 8 litres - guessing this is the total qty if doing a complete trans rebuild... or just an up-sell )

[null]

get six. i was only able to pour int a little over 5.5 liters, and lots of spillage when overflows. 6 is plenty

[Audibot]

Sorry to resurrect this thread again...

When I purchased the fluid from the dealer and mentioned I was going to do it, as soon as they heard my miles, they told me not to do it. Reason being that if I did it, they guaranteed that the tranny would start slipping. Something about the way the clutch packs and fluids "bond" together (for a lack of a better term). Putting in new fluid without changing them would result in the clutch packs disintegrating.

Anyone know anything about that?

Also, the gasket I received is metal and does not look anything like the one Phil or ECS shows. Anyone else know anything about that as well?

[nsogiba]

I wanted to bump this thread as my fiancee's car is showing classic symptoms of the torque convertor acting up (revs will surge and pulse during cold cruise). I'd like to change the fluid to try to remedy it. It's a 2007 A4 2.0T, 6speed auto tiptronic, quattro.

The trans code on the build sticker is marked "HUP HYH". ECS Tuning sells a nice combo kit of filter and gasket for a bit over $100, but it says it's only for the following:

[b[For Vehicles With Transmission Code HLL, HLK, HWD, HWE, JER Only[/b]

Which is the correct part number for her car? Can I use that combo on ECS?

Which fluid is also correct?

[doughboy17]

nsogiba, please post your results regarding the torque convertor acting up after the fluid change. I plan to have a fluid change done later this month. Mine is at 68K.

[Audibot]

I wanted to bump this thread as my fiancee's car is showing classic symptoms of the torque convertor acting up (revs will surge and pulse during cold cruise). I'd like to change the fluid to try to remedy it. It's a 2007 A4 2.0T, 6speed auto tiptronic, quattro.

The trans code on the build sticker is marked "HUP HYH". ECS Tuning sells a nice combo kit of filter and gasket for a bit over $100, but it says it's only for the following:

[b[For Vehicles With Transmission Code HLL, HLK, HWD, HWE, JER Only[/b]

Which is the correct part number for her car? Can I use that combo on ECS?

Which fluid is also correct?

I also have a 2007 2.0T and I got mine at a decent price through EuropaParts. 09L321371A is the part number I used. Cheaper individually on EuropaParts (not sure how it is if you price all the parts individually as there is no quattro kit), and you'll get it quicker too since they're right in NJ.

[d6lc]

Great DIY, I did mine the weekend, had the car for a month and was at 101k, it took 4 3/4 ltrs in total expensive from the dealer but I'm ok with that as I knnow I put the right oil in.

Mine pretty much looked the same as the OP's with the same metal sludge around the magnets.

I have to say I was skeptical about how this would improve the shifting, but I am happy to say it feels significantly smoother, most notably taking off from a standstill, which before was jerky and never felt smooth, I put this down to just how the car is. But after the change it really has made driving the car nicer.
I’ll be changing mine every 40k from now on, it’s simple to do, I would recommend it to all with a high mile car.

[Audibot]

Great DIY, I did mine the weekend, had the car for a month and was at 101k, it took 4 3/4 ltrs in total expensive from the dealer but I'm ok with that as I knnow I put the right oil in.

Mine pretty much looked the same as the OP's with the same metal sludge around the magnets.

I have to say I was skeptical about how this would improve the shifting, but I am happy to say it feels significantly smoother, most notably taking off from a standstill, which before was jerky and never felt smooth, I put this down to just how the car is. But after the change it really has made driving the car nicer.
I’ll be changing mine every 40k from now on, it’s simple to do, I would recommend it to all with a high mile car.

Great to hear! I felt pretty dumb waiting for mine since the dealer kept telling me if I changed it, I would have all sorts of problems. I'm about 18k miles later, and no issues at all! But boy, does that stuff STINK!

[fly300kts]

But boy, does that stuff STINK!

Yes, really bad

Phil

[nsogiba]

We will see. A friend who was a VW/Audi Tech for many years will be doing it for me, and has recommended that we only do a fluid drain and fill due to mileage.

[doughboy17]

Finally had my fluid changed and the shifts are smoother. At nearly 75K miles, it was shifting fine but had some roughness 2nd to 3rd and 6th to 4th. That roughness is gone and I discovered a great shop -- J's Repair and Performance in Plainfield, IL. It was not inexpensive since I used Audi fluid but have not had any issues over the two days since it has been done.

Thanks to fly300kts for strongly advising the Audi brand fluid. It must be GOOOOOOOLD; it's priced as such.

[Aznkae]

I had my fluid changed about a month ago with the ecs kit. Before I had jerking mostly on 3rd gear downshift. Now after the fluid change I have jerking on 1-2, 2-3 upshifts. I'm thinking to have the fluid levels checked again, but the mechanic said he got around 5 quarts in it. Anyone had similar experiences? I'm at 100,500k miles.

[fly300kts]

I had my fluid changed about a month ago with the ecs kit. Before I had jerking mostly on 3rd gear downshift. Now after the fluid change I have jerking on 1-2, 2-3 upshifts. I'm thinking to have the fluid levels checked again, but the mechanic said he got around 5 quarts in it. Anyone had similar experiences? I'm at 100,500k miles.

Not sure how to say it: USE OEM FLUID

Phil