Let's piece together a k04 kit shall we?

[SoFarGon]

What exactly would be needed, I know apr sells the s3 kit but it's too expensive in my opinion... What is NEEDED to safely run a k04 on our cars? After stage 2 that is... Intake/exhaust/testpipe/fmic... What now?

[SoFarGon]

Oh yea I also have these injectors (apr) Porsche 911 injectors part# 0 280150791

[eastwick897]

Oh yea I also have these injectors (apr) Porsche 911 injectors part# 0 280150791

Are your injectors even for an FSI motor? How do you know they run more? How do you know the spray pattern works with our cars?

[SoFarGon]

Are your injectors even for an FSI motor? How do you know they run more? How do you know the spray pattern works with our cars?

They were given to me by my friend with a stage 3 b5

[viperdsa]

They were given to me by my friend with a stage 3 b5

Was he running them in his B5?

[eastwick897]

Those won't work. As I said our cars are direct injection, those are not direct injection.

[deeznuts]

Those injectorz wont work.....as for k04....you need hpfp, correct injectors, a s3 k04, a custom manifold to fit, some little things, and a custom tune at that point....mark at autospeed which is reputable and close to us charges upwards of 1000 for custom software.

So there my friend you are looking at dollars and cents...you may get more power from the custom tune, but other then that it may come out that apr's kit is cheaper....i myself will be piecing together a kit because its easier to drop a few hundred here and there as opposed to dropping the full 3600 at once.

I have the rs4 injectors so far...sourcing an s3 turbo and manifold from greece hopefully from a friend and eventually the tune.

[STONER]

I slightly piece toghether this kit. I can get an s3 turbo new for about 1200, s3 injectors for about 400, new hpfp for 600(apr) or could do just awe. gaskets for another 150, tune for about 500-1000. I believe it can be done for 3k. I was gonna due it, but decided I will just do a big turbo when the time comes.

[swoardrider]

Supposedly it can be done. This guy did it: http://www.audizine.com/forum/showth...ghlight=s3+k04. But, that doesn't mean it's cost effective. Here's my price breakdown:
S3 K04 and injectors=$2000 (KMD)
HPFP rebuild kit=$400 (AWE)
DV with custom built inlet pipe=$400+ (034)
custom TP with S3 flange=$200+ (034)
misc claps, gaskets, silicone hose, etc=$400 (034)
custom tune=$1000+ (ASP)
These are pretty conservative numbers considering 3 of the things on the list are custom made. Assuming you did all the installation yourself and everything went perfect, including grinding down the S3 exhaust mani, your looking at $4400+.
APR S3 K04 kit without fuel pump is on sale for $3600. Add $400 for the AWE HPFP rebuild kit and you have yourself a guaranteed to work and fit S3 K04 set up. So go to APR's website and pull out your CC, and buy the f*^$er already!

[jayphil82]

Here's my price breakdown:
S3 K04 1150$
S3 injectors 250$ shipped (ebay.co.uk)
HPFP rebuild=$550 (APR)
DV relocation kit + piping 100$ (ATP)
Changing the Flange on you testpipe or HFC you already have 100$
misc claps, gaskets, silicone hose, etc=$400 (034)
Unitronic S3 tune=$700 (unitronic)
3h more on the install since custom drilling need to be done on the turbo and misc stuff 300$

= ruffly 3600$ but you can find a used turbo for less from UK and if ever you turbo blow it will be easier to get a new one because the turbo is OEM.

I might try this next summer and I will surely keep you guy posted.

[swoardrider]

^^ So, let's assume your numbers are dead accurate. You are talking about the difference of the cost of a HPFP rebuild, between your kit and APR's. Yet your kit hasn't been tried and proven. Still makes no sense cost wise to go the "custom" route. If you blow your APR turbo, you can always get it rebuilt due to it's journal bearing design, and most likely at a cost effective price than the used one. Especially if you factor in rolling the dice on a used turbo that has future failure prone.

I've gone around and around with this "custom" idea, and it makes zero sense unless you can do a complete build with HPFP for under $3k. Or, you want to do some one off build like putting a custom billet wheel in the S3 K04. Something similar to Frankenturbo's customizing, or the K06 billet wheels that I've seen coming out of the UK recently.

[STONER]

^^ So, let's assume your numbers are dead accurate. You are talking about the difference of the cost of a HPFP rebuild, between your kit and APR's. Yet your kit hasn't been tried and proven. Still makes no sense cost wise to go the "custom" route. If you blow your APR turbo, you can always get it rebuilt due to it's journal bearing design, and most likely at a cost effective price than the used one. Especially if you factor in rolling the dice on a used turbo that has future failure prone.

I've gone around and around with this "custom" idea, and it makes zero sense unless you can do a complete build with HPFP for under $3k. Or, you want to do some one off build like putting a custom billet wheel in the S3 K04. Something similar to Frankenturbo's customizing, or the K06 billet wheels that I've seen coming out of the UK recently.

Well the s3 turbo has been tried and proven. He could get the injectors flow tested for under 100. Doing this setup isn't rocket science. Hell one could piece together a bt system cheaper then what APR charges. Companies like APR, AWE, ETC are good for people who want something, quick, easy, and some kind of gurantee. If you save 500 or even 200 then it makes absolute sense. Also you can say I put this kit together myself.

Sounds like an APR KIT is for you so get on with it and quit being a negative nancy about others wanting to put together their own kits. THE CUP IS HALF FULL.

[swoardrider]

Well the s3 turbo has been tried and proven. He could get the injectors flow tested for under 100. Doing this setup isn't rocket science. Hell one could piece together a bt system cheaper then what APR charges. Companies like APR, AWE, ETC are good for people who want something, quick, easy, and some kind of gurantee. If you save 500 or even 200 then it makes absolute sense. Also you can say I put this kit together myself.

Sounds like an APR KIT is for you so get on with it and quit being a negative nancy about others wanting to put together their own kits. THE CUP IS HALF FULL.

Put down the flame and step away from the bong

You yourself said in this thread that it's gonna cost $3k+ to build a kit. It's already known that you have to grind on the OEM S3 mani to get it to bolt up to our engines, so there goes that warranty. Plus the custom tune probably voids the warranty anyways. Anyone with have the brain cells left in their head should not be going through all the customizing headaches and lose warranties to save at most $800. And for what? So they can say "I pieced together" a system that's already mainstream to begin with. Your logic is so far flawed my friend. I blame it on the Mexidirt you poor Texans have to put up with. Pray for Prop 19!

[A 4 Awesome]

I blame it on the Mexidirt you poor Texans have to put up with. Pray for Prop 19!

That is by far the best thing I've heard all day.

[redhott06]

the only thing i question is all the negative things about the apr k04 kit, at least, i dont think ive heard any postive reviews. what kind of warranty do they offer? just out of curiosity. i mean, im all for custom setups for those who know exactly what they want, in terms of exactly how the car will drive, where you want your max powder/hp/torque curves ...aka power down low or power up high? for street driving or drag strip? all these things being important factors, might aim for a custom kit.

however, if your just into a little power increase, and a cookie cutter kit, it sounds like some type of k04 kit is your best bet just make sure you get whatever you need in the kit, and source any other things before you either bring it to the shop or start tearing it down yourself. maybe see if you can talk to any owners of the same kit, not sure if there are k04 people in he stage 3 kit? havent caught up on my threads lately.

and dont forget the importance of the tune!! btw im assuming the car is chipped? if so what company did you end up using?

[jayphil82]

Put down the flame and step away from the bong

You yourself said in this thread that it's gonna cost $3k+ to build a kit. It's already known that you have to grind on the OEM S3 mani to get it to bolt up to our engines, so there goes that warranty. Plus the custom tune probably voids the warranty anyways. Anyone with have the brain cells left in their head should not be going through all the customizing headaches and lose warranties to save at most $800. And for what? So they can say "I pieced together" a system that's already mainstream to begin with. Your logic is so far flawed my friend. I blame it on the Mexidirt you poor Texans have to put up with. Pray for Prop 19!

I am not sure about the warranty thing since I don't know what warranty APR gives but what I know is that S3 K04 are reliable and grinding / drilling is supposed to be minimal. I understand your point but and am the one to think that if nobody tries we will never know for sure.

What I am sure:
Turbo price
S3 Injectors price
Tune price
DV relocation average price
What we could verify:
Actual price of all gasket / nuts
Custom intercooler piping needed price
S3 flange welding price

That's about what I know.

If "my kit" finally come at the same price than the APR kit to my mind I will not have lost anything and I will be able to teach my experiance to other audiziner.

Anyway I am not decided yet on which path I will follow, I was just answering the OP question of building our own KO4 kit that's all.

What I am wondering is what is the price of the APR KO4 kit if you already have a APR Stage 2+ tune / APR HPFP and S3 injector on hand???


Edit: I am not woried about used KO4 since they are 2008.5+ year (my K03 is an abused 2006 turbo still running strong) and like you said are easily rebuiltable.

[STONER]

Put down the flame and step away from the bong

You yourself said in this thread that it's gonna cost $3k+ to build a kit. It's already known that you have to grind on the OEM S3 mani to get it to bolt up to our engines, so there goes that warranty. Plus the custom tune probably voids the warranty anyways. Anyone with have the brain cells left in their head should not be going through all the customizing headaches and lose warranties to save at most $800. And for what? So they can say "I pieced together" a system that's already mainstream to begin with. Your logic is so far flawed my friend. I blame it on the Mexidirt you poor Texans have to put up with. Pray for Prop 19!

OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO snap girlfriend. Another joke made on behalf of my last name, which is Stone. Your so cool you get the thread award for best insult of the day. I myself didnt say 3k+, I said 3k. O dammmmmmmmmm did I just get you???? O you so smart cause you read where I live and not where I am from. You get another award!!!!!!!!!! You so smart cause you can read what you have to do. Yeah why not save 800???? You do aprs kit your warranty is void anyways and it isnt hard to detect at a dealer. Cause genius chances are your gonna have a test pipe or exhaust, which is gonna leave me to dig deeper, from their I will look at fuel trim and know exactly that your flowing more fuel then a stock 2.ol. O but wait your so smart you flashed it back. Well PRINCESS I can read your ecu look at your measured value blocks and see how many times it has been flashed. THAT IS IF WE TRUELY CARE ABOUT WARRANTY and if you have anything else stupid say you can just PM, so all can be spared of your stupidty. Thanks sweety.

Instead of writing all this I should have gave u the DUKE NUKEM AWARD. Which goes likes this. BLOW IT OUT YOUR ASS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[swoardrider]

Stoner, I wish you really were a stoner. At least I'd have some sympathy for your noob attitude. Your last post proves that your just a noob douche. I wasn't talking about the car's warranty. I'm talking about the turbo kit's warranty.
Try doing some research before you post things you know nothing about. The debate has been going on about piecing a K04 on this B7 forum since 2006. Back when the Stasis and APR kit first came out there was a lot of talk about people piecing together their own kit. Nobody I know on here ever did it because it wasn't cost prohibitive, even when the tuner kits were $5k. Piecing together everything you need for a K04 gives you what? Exactly everything that's in a tuner kit, minus the software. Until someone starts offering a proven $500 S3 K04 file for longitudinal engines, and S3 K04 with S3 injectors come down to $1500, the risk and work won't justify the cost. By that time, APR's cost will have gone down and their kit will be less as well.
Recently, the English guy on this thread,: http://www.audizine.com/forum/showth...light=k04+file is the only one I've heard of that's tried piecing together an S3 K04. Being in the UK, he has more access to S3 parts, and has had friends fab up shit for him, and a mobile tuner. Still not heard if his kit is even running correctly, let alone putting down comparable power.

Redhott- I've yet to hear anything negative regarding the S3 K04 APR kit. The old kit wasn't using an S3 turbo, thus down on power and maybe some other issues. But I've heard nothing but good things about the new kit. The Stasis kit has seemed to get nothing but praises. Darren from Streetwerks put down 300AWHP on 100oct with the Stasis kit.

[STONER]

I am rather impressed with your literacy skills. You can read when I joined Audizine. Good job. (Golf clap). Swoardrider its ok I understand your one of those guys that gets off on trying to put people down on a forum again golf clap.

You keep talking about reliability. Its and S3 tubro dumbass it has the same reliability if not more then APRs. Reasoning and correct me if I am wrong DOUCHE LORD. Apr machines their turbos to get the k04 internals to work, so I think there is a slight chance there for more of an issue.

So lets recap swoardrider:
Can a kit be put together cheaper then APR? YES
Will it be as reliable then APR? yes, same injectors and factory turbo. Again nothing is 100 precent, but apr does have a little more man made factor in their turbo.
Will homemade kit make as much power? Maybe, Maybe not, Maybe yes. Depends on tuning and other conditions.
Is saving 800 dollars and having a slightly less and I emphasize slightly less kit worth it? Yes
Is SWOARDRIDER a KNOW IT ALL NOTHING? yes, and a great one at that.


EPIC FAIL PRINCESS and I'm out.

[Charles]

Why not this:
http://www.kmdtuning.com/index.php?_...productId=1463

More HP
No need for DV relocate
No S3 flange for exhaust
Just need injectors, HPFP, and tune (I think)

Should be around 3K

[Dangler]

fuck K04.....ko5 or bust....lulz

[swoardrider]

I am rather impressed with your literacy skills. You can read when I joined Audizine. Good job. (Golf clap). Swoardrider its ok I understand your one of those guys that gets off on trying to put people down on a forum again golf clap.

You keep talking about reliability. Its and S3 tubro dumbass it has the same reliability if not more then APRs. Reasoning and correct me if I am wrong DOUCHE LORD. Apr machines their turbos to get the k04 internals to work, so I think there is a slight chance there for more of an issue.

So lets recap swoardrider:
Can a kit be put together cheaper then APR? YES
Will it be as reliable then APR? yes, same injectors and factory turbo. Again nothing is 100 precent, but apr does have a little more man made factor in their turbo.
Will homemade kit make as much power? Maybe, Maybe not, Maybe yes. Depends on tuning and other conditions.
Is saving 800 dollars and having a slightly less and I emphasize slightly less kit worth it? Yes
Is SWOARDRIDER a KNOW IT ALL NOTHING? yes, and a great one at that.


EPIC FAIL PRINCESS and I'm out.

Hey c*^k tease, please leave this forum and never come back. I'm tired of noobs like you coming in here and running your mouth off about mods you know nothing about, and contributing absolutely ZERO to the Audi community. If your so confident you can do this mod for $3k or less, why don't you put your money where your mouth is? There are plenty of people on this forum who have $3k to drop on a 100 hp gain, yet I don't see them running to their nearest tuner to get a custom tune for a pieced together kit. Because it's not that easy. Like everybody keeps telling you noobs for the past 5 years on AZ, you cannot just piece together parts and go buy a tune for an FSI engine like you can with the 1.8 platform.

Charles -
The KMD kit is this one from ATP: http://www.atpturbo.com/mm5/merchant...egory_Code=AB7
They are in the middle of redesigning it for some reason. To my knowledge, nobody here on AZ has tried it due to the same issues in this thread. Nobody makes a tune for this kit. There was a kid here on AZ earlier this year with a blue B7 from the East Coast who had bought one of the bigger ATP turbo kits and couldn't get it to run right because of the tune. (I seem to remember it was KMD trying to tune it). I believe he ended up taking it to ASP and costing him like $2k or $3k more to get the car even running half ass. A perfect example of how "piecing together a kit" ended up costing thousands more.

[jayphil82]

Why not this:
http://www.kmdtuning.com/index.php?_...productId=1463

More HP
No need for DV relocate
No S3 flange for exhaust
Just need injectors, HPFP, and tune (I think)

Should be around 3K

Could be a nice option but it is only a rebuilt of your stock turbo whereas the KO4 is a new turbo. You need to ship your turbo for rebuilt. Also I am not sure you can get a lot more hp than a K04. Not to mention that you need to go with a custom tune (1500$) where unitronic get a file for the S3 kit at 700$

Anyway for now this product is under revision by ATP we will see what will replace it.

[mr shickadance]

i would have to double check to be certain but doesn;t unitronics make a chip? i thought i saw a few bt b7's at waterfest

[Charles]

Charles -
The KMD kit is this one from ATP: http://www.atpturbo.com/mm5/merchant...egory_Code=AB7
They are in the middle of redesigning it for some reason. To my knowledge, nobody here on AZ has tried it due to the same issues in this thread. Nobody makes a tune for this kit. There was a kid here on AZ earlier this year with a blue B7 from the East Coast who had bought one of the bigger ATP turbo kits and couldn't get it to run right because of the tune. (I seem to remember it was KMD trying to tune it). I believe he ended up taking it to ASP and costing him like $2k or $3k more to get the car even running half ass. A perfect example of how "piecing together a kit" ended up costing thousands more.

Right..I read that. That was due to a low pressure fueling issue, if I remember correctly. This kit doesn't put out enough HP to have that problem.

Could be a nice option but it is only a rebuilt of your stock turbo whereas the KO4 is a new turbo. You need to ship your turbo for rebuilt. Also I am not sure you can get a lot more hp than a K04. Not to mention that you need to go with a custom tune (1500$) where unitronic get a file for the S3 kit at 700$

Anyway for now this product is under revision by ATP we will see what will replace it.

Eh...a rebuilt turbo is almost as good as new. I mean, let's be honest, the only thing not new would be the housing, and the housing doesn't have wear and tear. I think you can get a custom tune for cheaper than 1600 too. But like I said, this is supposedly for 350hp whereas the APR kit is for 318. Even with a high priced custom tune, you're coming in right at 4K with more power.

[redhott06]

Redhott- I've yet to hear anything negative regarding the S3 K04 APR kit. The old kit wasn't using an S3 turbo, thus down on power and maybe some other issues. But I've heard nothing but good things about the new kit. The Stasis kit has seemed to get nothing but praises. Darren from Streetwerks put down 300AWHP on 100oct with the Stasis kit.

I may be wrong, i am probably thinking of the old kit then. I thought there was issues with the apr tune maybe, or lack of a tune or something? But i dont remember specifically so i wont say anything else on the subject. Did Darren have the exact stasis kit, or were there any modifications made? Anything different used? Just wondering. thanks for clearing that up swoardridaaaa.

[jayphil82]

I just got an email from APR and the price to upgrade from a stage 1-2 tune to K04 tune is 299$. So compare to 700$ for a new Unitronic tune it might be a good option for me.

I also asked them what would be the price of the K04 kit if it is on sales, I already have a APR tune and S3 injectors( basically I would only need the APR turbo and all hardware(gasket, nuts...). I will keep you posted once I know. Depending on the price I could change my mind and go APR instead of going custom.


What I am wondering, is that my contact at Unitronic gave me a dyno sheet of a GTI KO4 with their tune (at the wheel) and it was making more power than the APR tune.
305 WHP on the GTI / mustang dyno (about 345 chp considering 12% drivetrain lost) and the power was not dropping after 5500 rpm...

When I have I change I will post the dyno sheet

[swoardrider]

I may be wrong, i am probably thinking of the old kit then. I thought there was issues with the apr tune maybe, or lack of a tune or something? But i dont remember specifically so i wont say anything else on the subject. Did Darren have the exact stasis kit, or were there any modifications made? Anything different used? Just wondering. thanks for clearing that up swoardridaaaa.

I was told a while back by Jason Whipple at Stasis that Darren's car was the stock Stasis kit (Mahle K04), with APR HPFP, stock DSMICs, and GIAC 100oct file. Considering it's a pretty conservative dyno (Mustang), I was pleasantly surprised by the dyno sheet.

[swoardrider]

I just got an email from APR and the price to upgrade from a stage 1-2 tune to K04 tune is 299$. So compare to 700$ for a new Unitronic tune it might be a good option for me.

I also asked them what would be the price of the K04 kit if it is on sales, I already have a APR tune and S3 injectors( basically I would only need the APR turbo and all hardware(gasket, nuts...). I will keep you posted once I know. Depending on the price I could change my mind and go APR instead of going custom.

What I am wondering, is that my contact at Unitronic gave me a dyno sheet of a GTI KO4 with their tune (at the wheel) and it was making more power than the APR tune.
305 WHP on the GTI / mustang dyno (about 345 chp considering 12% drivetrain lost) and the power was not dropping after 5500 rpm...

When I have I change I will post the dyno sheet

Did APR say they would actually sell you their S3 KO4 file? If so, that's good news because they have specifically stated many times on this forum that they would not sell the longitudinal S3 K04 file alone. Their tranverse file they will sell alone. If you look at their website under B7 A4, you cannot buy just the software. Under the MKV GTI you'll see the K04 software alone to purchase, and if you look at the GTI's K04 kit, things are slightly different, which slightly changes the power of that kit compared to the B7 A4 kit.

[redhott06]

swoardrider: that is impressive for a mustang dyno haha thanks for letting me know i forgot about stasis for awhile lol

[A4 Centaur]

Damn! gotta do the 5k kit just to break 300 HP? WTF! I was thinking maybe some "mild" head modifications: Flow porting the heads, and a very, very mild polishing? 3-5 angle valve job as well, while the head is off. Cleaning up some casting marks, and matching the header to the manifold as well.
I had great results with my other "projects" in the past just cleaning up a seasoned head, and doing the things listed above. I wonder if the kit from Stasis with this work would push the FSI closer to 335-345 AWHP? Or just more dreaming?
I have been following the builds in other forums and haven't seen much attention paid to "head work" until our friend from Greece got his new valves and cams. Is that something we have been over-looking?

[jayphil82]

Did APR say they would actually sell you their S3 KO4 file? If so, that's good news because they have specifically stated many times on this forum that they would not sell the longitudinal S3 K04 file alone. Their tranverse file they will sell alone. If you look at their website under B7 A4, you cannot buy just the software. Under the MKV GTI you'll see the K04 software alone to purchase, and if you look at the GTI's K04 kit, things are slightly different, which slightly changes the power of that kit compared to the B7 A4 kit.

From Ryan to me:
<<Hi Jean-Philippe, We do not sell the Stage 3 software separately, but we do sell the K04 software separately. The cost for you will be $299.00 for the K04 software.
Ryan Miller
[email protected]>>

I did specifiy 2-3 time in may email that I had a A4 2.0T in case you are wondering... Yea it a really good new for me! Sound that I'm not that far away to have a K04 A4!

EDIT: Dyno of KO4 GTI with unitronic tune (to the wheels)

[jayphil82]

I also asked them what would be the price of the K04 kit if it is on sales, I already have a APR tune and S3 injectors( basically I would only need the APR turbo and all hardware(gasket, nuts...). I will keep you posted once I know. Depending on the price I could change my mind and go APR instead of going custom.

I got the answer from Ryan (APR)

<<We sell the software separately for $299, but we do not sell any of the other components separate from the kit. You can either buy the software by itself or the kit as a whole. >>

So I guess it will be more cost effective for me to go custom since it will only cost 300$ for the tune and I already have HPFP and S3 injectors.