Question about flat spot in torque curve and hesitation

[Tone-Dogg]

For the 1.8T Gods, I'm trying to pinpoint if this is the engine related or clutch. After going 1+, the big injectors added nice power, so I wanted to Dyno. Once on the dyno, a 4th gear pull, I realized my clutch started slipping. Ugh!!! Tried easing into it and couldn't get an accurate dyno reading.

So I started doing test runs on the highway, and continued to notice in the taller gears depending on weather conditions, (hot or cold) it would only slip when it wanted to. Well it's been about a year now as I have been delaying the clutch upgrade. $$$'s

I also did some more testing on the highway as I noticed some hesitation, running at 70 in 6th and acceleration, hesitation up to 90.
I tried the same thing in 5th, running at 70 up to 90, still hesitation but less.
Then 4th, 70 up to 90 and hestiation stopped. BTW, 1st thru 3rd, no hesitation.

What do you think? Is this a clutch thing or is it deeper than that. (I had a MKIV Jetta, modded, 13 second car, bought new and ran to 208K on the Clock, never had this issue, boost always came on strong oem clutch)

B6 Engine Mods: APR Stage1+, bypassed N249, 6E copper plugs, 5K on them, Mobil One Syn 5-40 oil, stock panel air filter, oe exhaust, oe turbo, revised coilpacks (latest edition recall) oe O2 sensor, oe N75

Thank you kindly in advance for your thoughts.

Oh, one more thing, the other night was out and did a nice hot run to the store and coming back up the hill, I noticed in 3rd, I hit a flat spot in the curve around 4 grand, this never happened before. The engine just cut out and picked back up.

[lyleswk]

Not on the engine torque compounded by turbo lag. Not sure where torque comes on for the 1.8, but it is at least 3000 rpms. As you go down in gears, you get closer to the where the engine produces decent torque and hence no hesitation.

Others?

[Tone-Dogg]

Not on the engine torque compounded by turbo lag. Not sure where torque comes on for the 1.8, but it is at least 3000 rpms. As you go down in gears, you get closer to the where the engine produces decent torque and hence no hesitation.

Others?

Thanks, other thoughts???

[A4SoftWalker]

What hoses are u running into and out of ur turbo to ur intake manifold?

U seem to have hoses collapsing/expanding there.
That would lead to ur hesitation. It is related to the engine trying to ingest air and not enough flow.


Gud Luk

[Tone-Dogg]

What hoses are u running into and out of ur turbo to ur intake manifold?

U seem to have hoses collapsing/expanding there.
That would lead to ur hesitation. It is related to the engine trying to ingest air and not enough flow.

Gud Luk

All hoses in and out are stock components, when I bypassed the N249, I just ran the top of the DV to the intake Mani and all was good. If I'm reading you right, what you are saying is I'm not getting enough air flow with the power the engine is delivering? Correct?

[A4SoftWalker]

^^^Correct, its time for some APR/Samco/Neuspeed hoses.

Been there done that I could feel that the moment I went to the big injector tune.

U got some serious fluttering going on there if u are still on stock hoses. They cannot stand up to the demands u are placing on them.

[Tone-Dogg]

^^^Correct, its time for some APR/Samco/Neuspeed hoses.

Been there done that I could feel that the moment I went to the big injector tune.

U got some serious fluttering going on there if u are still on stock hoses. They cannot stand up to the demands u are placing on them.

OH, (Giant light bulb lit up) so this has nothing to do with the clutch? Like the flywheel is vibrating or something? So what hoses should I upgrade? TIP? DP?

[A4SoftWalker]

I would upgrade both.

Check it out for yourself - stock hoses aren't good for shit more than stock performance

[Tone-Dogg]

^^^^ Holy Shit, I didn't realize it was that bad, do you know what gears that was in? It seems to be worse at top end vs lower end. BTW, A4 Softwalker, thanks for all your help with this.

[A4SoftWalker]

^^^No problem.... Are u on a front mount intercooler


Edit... that was on a long pull like when merging onto a freeway definitely higher gears that is only when u notice bcs u shift too soon in the city.

[Tone-Dogg]

^^^No problem.... Are u on a front mount intercooler

No, but have thought about the upgrade for a long time, I know it would make a huge difference, but I'm not ready to pony up those dollars as I have to replace my clutch first. What would you start with Turbo inlet pipe, then do Down pipe? or would the TIP be suffcient.

[A4SoftWalker]

TIP would be sufficient. The other hose coming out of the intercooler is fine it just might expand a little compared to the collapsing TIP bcs it has the ribs molded in to allow flex. Just keep it in mind what u got going on there.

The other part of ur flat spot is the HUGE heat soak u are getting from the stock intercooler.
It will go away once u upgrade...

Edit...

The DP is part of ur exhaust I would consider that too at some point as the heat backup to ur turbo from there is intense.
U could get around it though with a 034 highflow cat or a test pipe of one of the many out there.

[Dan[FN]6262]

you say your running 6Es and you've had them for 5k miles? BKR6Es? the copper core plugs? they should be changed with every oil change. they are only good for around 5k miles.

while a FMIC is a good investment, change your plugs and gap them to .032, and report back. plugs are a hell of a lot cheaper than a FMIC

[CrtchRktRcr]

at work so can't really read the whole thread.. try doing a TBA. Mine flattens around 3k sine i drive like a sissy most of the time.. see if that helps.

[A4SoftWalker]

you say your running 6Es and you've had them for 5k miles? BKR6Es? the copper core plugs? they should be changed with every oil change. they are only good for around 5k miles.

while a FMIC is a good investment, change your plugs and gap them to .032, and report back. plugs are a hell of a lot cheaper than a FMIC

Unless he dynoed the car and parked it for a year with 5k on the plugs I would highly doubt that is his problem - but stranger things have happened.

Evidence of problem is here:

For the 1.8T Gods, I'm trying to pinpoint if this is the engine related or clutch. After going 1+, the big injectors added nice power, so I wanted to Dyno. Once on the dyno, a 4th gear pull, I realized my clutch started slipping. Ugh!!! Tried easing into it and couldn't get an accurate dyno reading.

So I started doing test runs on the highway, and continued to notice in the taller gears depending on weather conditions, (hot or cold) it would only slip when it wanted to. Well it's been about a year now as I have been delaying the clutch upgrade. $$$'s

I also did some more testing on the highway as I noticed some hesitation, running at 70 in 6th and acceleration, hesitation up to 90.
I tried the same thing in 5th, running at 70 up to 90, still hesitation but less.
Then 4th, 70 up to 90 and hestiation stopped. BTW, 1st thru 3rd, no hesitation.

What do you think? Is this a clutch thing or is it deeper than that...

I noticed in 3rd, I hit a flat spot in the curve around 4 grand, this never happened before. The engine just cut out and picked back up.

^^^classic hose collapse symptoms

I'm going with a combination of slipping clutch, severe heat soak, turbo exhaust restriction, and TIP but a slipping clutch should be noticed in the lower gears accelerating from a stop.

[Tone-Dogg]

TIP would be sufficient. The other hose coming out of the intercooler is fine it just might expand a little compared to the collapsing TIP bcs it has the ribs molded in to allow flex. Just keep it in mind what u got going on there.

The other part of ur flat spot is the HUGE heat soak u are getting from the stock intercooler.
It will go away once u upgrade...

Edit...

The DP is part of ur exhaust I would consider that too at some point as the heat backup to ur turbo from there is intense.
U could get around it though with a 034 highflow cat or a test pipe of one of the many out there.

I totally know how bad I need a FMIC, once you start modding these baby KO3's you have to supply ample cooling. I will totally look into a TIP, thanks for all our help and the youtube vid. Very nice.

[Tone-Dogg]

you say your running 6Es and you've had them for 5k miles? BKR6Es? the copper core plugs? they should be changed with every oil change. they are only good for around 5k miles.

while a FMIC is a good investment, change your plugs and gap them to .032, and report back. plugs are a hell of a lot cheaper than a FMIC

Yes that is the plug i'm running, truth is they might have closer to 10K on them, I can't remember if I changed them at the last oil change, I change oil every 5K on the nose and usually change the plugs then too. I truthly can't remember if I changed them last go around. Thanks for bringing this up.

Also, I usually gap at 32, but some gap at 28 when running a colder plug, I know the 7E's are colder, I'm in CT so we have 4 seasons here, I heard horror stories about the cold and how the 7E are tough starts, etc. What is the gap every one is running? I know loaded question!!! is there much difference between 30 and 32?

[Tone-Dogg]

at work so can't really read the whole thread.. try doing a TBA. Mine flattens around 3k sine i drive like a sissy most of the time.. see if that helps.

Great point, I totally forgot about TBA, will do, thanks man, Also you just reminded me, last oil change, 5K ago, I did a complete TB cleaning, removed 4 bolts, cleaned, alligned, and back in....

[Dan[FN]6262]

Yes that is the plug i'm running, truth is they might have closer to 10K on them, I can't remember if I changed them at the last oil change, I change oil every 5K on the nose and usually change the plugs then too. I truthly can't remember if I changed them last go around. Thanks for bringing this up.

Also, I usually gap at 32, but some gap at 28 when running a colder plug, I know the 7E's are colder, I'm in CT so we have 4 seasons here, I heard horror stories about the cold and how the 7E are tough starts, etc. What is the gap every one is running? I know loaded question!!! is there much difference between 30 and 32?

I live in PA, we have 4 Seasons.

My setup is no where near close to yours. I'm running NGK V-Power 9s gapped at .028. but thats because I'm running 25-27psi with a turbo the size of a 35R. do not run these on your stock turbo.

6Es hardly lasted 500 miles when I was breaking in my motor on 18psi

gap them to .032, you'll get better gas mileage because they'll spark longer and give you a more complete burn, also resulting in slightly more HP

[lyleswk]

Does everyone think hoses, TBA, etc will solve his "hesitation" problem"? In 6th gear at 70, I would guess he is running mid 2000's rpm. Stomp the gas and you have to wait for the "charge" to build and engine to come onto it's torque curve. In 4th, you are there. If so, I just read and learn. I am by the way running a stock 02, so have no direct experience with any tuning.

[Tone-Dogg]

^^^^ What is TBA?, Yes running closer to 2K at 70mph in 6th, when you stomp on the gas, it feels like major hesitation and like a coil is going to blow. It will get there, but if I want to do any kind of passing, I have to down shift to 5 or even 4th just to get any power.

I know totally difference car, but in the B8, this isn't even and issue, stomp in 6th and the B8 Goes....

[CrtchRktRcr]

did you say good point..and then ask me what a tba is? Or was that aimed at the other guy?



just in case. tba Throttle Body Adaption.

[Dan[FN]6262]

lmfao, are you just not finding out that you have turbo lag in 6th gear?

the B8 would be ENTIRELY different and probably has next to no lag in 6th gear. the engines are no where near the same.

[viceprp]

Take a video and post. Need speedo and boost gauge in sight..

[Sales@RAI]

7E plugs

[Tone-Dogg]

I just want to thank everyone for their input on this, I have a few things to try thanks to all of you. I'll report back and let you know what happens.

[lyleswk]

Sorry, just have to put some details to this as you compared it to the 2.0t B8.

Torque on the 1.8t is 160 ft-lbs and starting from about 2000 rpms (lower than I expected by the way). Torque on the B8 2.0t is 258 ft-lbs and starts at 1500 rpm. So in your B6, you are at the bottom of the torque curve (vice into the curve) and are 100 ft-lbs lower in torque. Put this different in torque, turbo lag in the 1.8t (don't know the 2.0 at all), and the very tall overdrive gearing in 6th and voila, it feels like it is hesitating.

[texasboy21]

you say your running 6Es and you've had them for 5k miles? BKR6Es? the copper core plugs? they should be changed with every oil change. they are only good for around 5k miles.

this, but I suggest .027 thats what works best with my car at least.

[Tone-Dogg]

Excellent point, thanks

[Tone-Dogg]

this, but I suggest .027 thats what works best with my car at least.

Texas, 0.27 on the 6E's or 7E's?

[Sales@RAI]

7Es boss. Just get them now, its like $8

4644 is the pn

[IVRINGS]

7Es boss. Just get them now, its like $8

4644 is the pn

Clear out your PMs... ;)

[Tone-Dogg]

Clear out your PMs... ;)

X2, Tried pm'ing you, basically Clint what I was trying to say was, on my jetta 1.8T, I was in the 13's & always ran a colder plug. I'm going to do the 7E's & TIP, will report back, tks again to all

[Tone-Dogg]

X2, Tried pm'ing you, basically Clint what I was trying to say was, on my jetta 1.8T, I was in the 13's & always ran a colder plug. I'm going to do the 7E's & TIP, will report back, tks again to all

Just ordered plugs, will install tomorrow, any one know what's the Best TIP? and price?