Any advantages to wheel bolts vs studs?

[anaxagoras]

I've always wondered this. Why does audi use wheel bolts instead of studs? Is there any advantage?

[S4UCE]

It's more difficult to put the wheel on. Audi seems to make decisions like this based on user unfriendliness. "Hm, how can we make this tougher?"

[sherbet]

It's more difficult to put the wheel on. Audi seems to make decisions like this based on user unfriendliness. "Hm, how can we make this tougher?"

I lol'ed. So true. Fucking europeans.

[mr.awesome]

not gonna speak for all cars but the rotors like to stick to wheel studs

[04/01-s4]

I've been running studs for a while and would never go back. My wheels are constantly coming on and off for one reason or another but Id definatly +1 for full stud conversion, and make sure to get noticeably longer ones then a "stock" length just in case you ever decide to run spacers or get different wheels with different offsets. It just makes life ALOT easier.

[blacka4]

yeah I hated the bolts...my next audi I am going to get a stud conversion kit...

[Thsisinsanity]

I find it easier to put on wheels with bolts than with studs.. especially if its heavy. You just put it on, and slide it till it lines up with the holes. With a stud i find myself to have to constantly put it up, put it back down, realign it, etc.

I know for BMX hubs most people are switching over to bolts because its lighter and stronger and bolts can be torqued down better... not sure if its the same for cars though.

[KNaudi]

I find it easier to put on wheels with bolts than with studs.. especially if its heavy. You just put it on, and slide it till it lines up with the holes. With a stud i find myself to have to constantly put it up, put it back down, realign it, etc.

huh? what you described is exactly the opposite of reality. studs are 100x easier than bolts. there is no lining up to do with studs, if its on, its lined up.

[BlkdoutS4]

I find it easier to put on wheels with bolts than with studs.. especially if its heavy. You just put it on, and slide it till it lines up with the holes. With a stud i find myself to have to constantly put it up, put it back down, realign it, etc.

you have it backwards..

[*Blue-Angel*]

huh? what you described is exactly the opposite of reality. studs are 100x easier than bolts. there is no lining up to do with studs, if its on, its lined up.

LoL i was thinking the same thing.

[audiluxary]

[QUOTE=Thsisinsanity;5817415]I find it easier to put on wheels with bolts than with studs.. especially if its heavy. You just put it on, and slide it till it lines up with the holes. With a stud i find myself to have to constantly put it up, put it back down, realign it, etc.

I know for BMX hubs most people are switching over to bolts because its lighter and stronger and bolts can be torqued down better... not sure if its the same for cars though.[/QUO

Have you ever taken an Audi wheel off? This is the most rediculous setup of all wheel setups and a stud conversion is by far easier.

[*Blue-Angel*]

funny thing is the morons at audi that designed it. the lip is so unbearably small that if you dont take the time to thread in the tool which acts like a stud mind you then the wheel just falls off or rotates out of place, or you have to use your feet or something to hold the wheel in place so it doesnt fall etc. its a unbelievably stupid setup.

[Mattgfx]

funny thing is the morons at audi that designed it. the lip is so unbearably small that if you dont take the time to thread in the tool which acts like a stud mind you then the wheel just falls off or rotates out of place, or you have to use your feet or something to hold the wheel in place so it doesnt fall etc. its a unbelievably stupid setup.

this.

sometimes i wonder what german engineering really means..

[JLH_S4]

Haha I've never been the biggest fan of these things (I've owned two GTIs and now an S4) but they've also never really bothered me. It's all I've ever known so I guess you just get used to dealing with it. Always know to factor in dealing with lining up the holes to get the bolts back in when you're working. Also - how do you toss spacers on studs? Can you have studs that are just normally ~25mm longer than you need just in case you ever decide to space 'em out? But then I'm guessing your suds would actually stick OUT of the wheel that extra ~25mm... would you be able to use center caps? Geez all the questions that brings up for me.

[Johann2.7t]

you know that black threaded thing in the tool kit...

[anaxagoras]

I was wondering if there was some engineering reason like more clamping force or some such. It seems audi just did it to be a bunch of cocks?

[s4lou]

studs ftw!

[KNaudi]

I was wondering if there was some engineering reason like more clamping force or some such. It seems audi just did it to be a bunch of cocks?

germans fucking with humanity in general? NO WAY

[Tormented]

Can anyone post some pics of both options? I dont understand the difference in the two. I am gathering that studs are easier than bolts but im just curious what the difference is with them both. Also where can stud conversions be found? And are there multiple different types and what makes one better than another?

[KNaudi]

Can anyone post some pics of both options? I dont understand the difference in the two. I am gathering that studs are easier than bolts but im just curious what the difference is with them both. Also where can stud conversions be found? And are there multiple different types and what makes one better than another?

really? alright, ill help ya out. here are my studs. they are from Mike@RingerRacing.

[RONDAL]

ringerracing.com

[KNaudi]

ringerracing.com

we might be taken to the AZ dungeon and waterboarded.

[KNaudi]

Can anyone post some pics of both options? I dont understand the difference in the two. I am gathering that studs are easier than bolts but im just curious what the difference is with them both. Also where can stud conversions be found? And are there multiple different types and what makes one better than another?

oh and some people really don't like the way studs looks on the wheels (don't understand it) but it is definitely a different look from the flush look of bolts

[odhinnhrafn]

At the same time, though, snapping a bolt (my old ones were rusted, looked like the PO never removed em, breaking torque just snapped one of the bolts in half...) just means drill/tap the bolt out, replace. Snapping a stud (when it's built into the hub) can mean having to replace the hub.

[mholme]

This debate gets started every couple of years on a number of forums and I've never seen a clear cut answer as to what the reason is for German cars to use bolts instead of studs. Some say it's for cost reasons, easier to repair a broken bolt than replacing a stud, others because the load of the wheel is carried by the hub ring with bolts vs the wheel studs, which could also damage them during removal or installation. I don't know, I will say this..if you know how to remove a wheel, the difference is negligible between the two. It takes about 2-3 minutes to R&R a wheel, whether it uses studs to mount it or bolts.

[RONDAL]

does anyone know the size and pitch of the studs that are needed?

[mholme]

oh and some people really don't like the way studs looks on the wheels (don't understand it) but it is definitely a different look from the flush look of bolts

I think it's probably the exposed threads that's that doesn't appeal to some, I don't know if I would run wheels like that where I live. Not that they don't make nuts that cover them. Nothing wrong with the way it looks from my view.

[*Blue-Angel*]

I will have to agree with your last statement. going between my mazdas and the audi is going from studs to bolts. id have to say once you come up with a system then the time is very small. but overall the studs are quicker and easier to r&r than bolts and the fact that the wheel needs to dangle on the small lip of the hub.

[mholme]

I will have to agree with your last statement. going between my mazdas and the audi is going from studs to bolts. id have to say once you come up with a system then the time is very small. but overall the studs are quicker and easier to r&r than bolts and the fact that the wheel needs to dangle on the small lip of the hub.

Yup, you can slide a wheel on a 5 point stud set up, zip the nuts on and be done. But for bolts, you obvioulsly have line things up. for the rear wheels, it's not an issue. Just R&R with the ebrake on and the holes are in place. For the front, the set up still doesn't turn that much. Stick the wheel on, spin it and put a bolts in place. I actually don't have an issue with the wheel coming off of the ring when lining up the bolts. At the most, I have to hold it with light finger pressure to get a bolt in the hole(That's what she said)..

[Bimmerchop]

Regular wheel bolts do two things at once; A stud conversion splits the work into 2. While the fixed studs help hold the wheel in place, the lug nuts keep the wheels torqued down. As already mentioned, it makes installing wheels easier and faster. Depending on the length stud you get, you can also run spacers safely without the need to buy new wheel bolts. Speaking of, proper installation of wheel spacers is also made easier. Having a stud kit also allows for having a wide range of lugs to choose from, some of which can be forged aluminum which can help drop some more unsprung weight.

[Mattgfx]

This debate gets started every couple of years on a number of forums and I've never seen a clear cut answer as to what the reason is for German cars to use bolts instead of studs. Some say it's for cost reasons, easier to repair a broken bolt than replacing a stud, others because the load of the wheel is carried by the hub ring with bolts vs the wheel studs, which could also damage them during removal or installation. I don't know, I will say this..if you know how to remove a wheel, the difference is negligible between the two. It takes about 2-3 minutes to R&R a wheel, whether it uses studs to mount it or bolts.

mholme you're the god of audizine

[RusS4]

I've been trying to get an answer on this but can I use 4 ball seat nuts and 1 conical locking nut? I'm trying to order the stud conversion kit from raven but I want to get the locking nut set but they only come in conical seat. I have OEM wheels and vmr 708's.

[Bimmerchop]

^^Are VMRs ball seat?

[KNaudi]

^^Are VMRs ball seat?

yup

[Bimmerchop]

Hmm... I just always figured they had a conical seat like most aftermarket companies out there.

[RusS4]

So that means I can't use ravens lock nuts right?

[Bimmerchop]

Can you? Yes, but it won't sit securely. Just buy a set of ball seat lock nuts from someone else.

[destrolock]

I assumed the reason Audi used bolts instead of studs is because the wheel cap will not fit over studs, depending on length. Obviously I could be way off though.

[CC Lemon]

oh and some people really don't like the way studs looks on the wheels (don't understand it) but it is definitely a different look from the flush look of bolts

Unless the length of the stud is the issue, I don't think that's typically an issue. Just need a nice set of lugs and it looks fine. Here's how my Volk's looked with Ray's lugs on my RX-8:

[happy2B5]

Another advantage is when dealing with morons at tire shops. We have experience and take the time and are careful with our expensive wheels to line things up and get them mounted properly without trashing the finish around the bolt holes. If you are like me and don't mount your own tires (how many of us do?) you are taking a leap of faith every time new tires are needed and or rotated/rebalanced. Ask me how I know.