Quick question about our 1.8T's cranks... Are any of them forged?

[Jet Jockey]

I always thought our cranks were forged but some people say that's not so some are cast!

How can we tell the difference between the two, and is it obvious?

Is there a way by model year of the car and/or engine code to know which type of crank you have?

TIA

[widgget]

excuse my ignorance, but isn't it irrelevant since it's not common even for high HP cars to be snapping the crank shaft? would forged vs cast provide benefits other then just shear strength?

i think "fast A4" yours is the first that comes to mind. you know what you are doing, not trying to question you, just wondering so i know.

[bigblue]

aeb blocks had forged but not amb

[heywier427]

what about the tdi crank?

[FORCE_FED_DUB]

From what I've seen, it depends on who you ask. Audi technical data says they're all forged, other sources claim that the only forged 06A 1.8T cranks are those found in the transverse engines in Golf/Jetta/TT; the longitudinal 06A cranks all being cast. The common 2.0L 8V crank is known to be cast, the 2.0T crank forged. I've never seen a snapped crank from any of these engines, FWIW.

[RecklessTuning]

All 2.0 cranks are cast.

AEB cranks are cast.

All 2.0T cranks are forged.

All tdi cranks are forged.

Forged cranks are usally lighter and stronger. I have had a 2.0 cast crank in one of my stroked engines and put down 450whp no problem. I did switch to a 2.0t forged crank in my 650whp engine and I'll be sticking with that crank for my goal of 800whp.

[Jet Jockey]

As we can see there is no clear consensus on the 1.8T cranks.

[Jet Jockey]

UPDATE...

My original crank that came out of my motor last year was examined today by the shop and their conclusion is that it is a "cast" version.

As a reminder, my car is a 2004 B6 with an AMB motor code.

[Sales@RAI]

Well we knew that

[Jet Jockey]

Well we knew that

Which part?

And in your professional opinion, what's the max power rating at the crank for these cast cranks (350, 400, 475, 525 CHP)?

At what point power wise, would you suggest to switch to a forged crank if there is such a crank for the 1.8T?

[RecklessTuning]

there is a guy on vortex that does over 600whp on a cast crank. Their not weak they are just heavy. More rotational mass = slower RPM gain = slower spool.

Here is my G14 classified Excel sheet since you want more details about cast and forged cranks.

[Jet Jockey]

OK thanks for the info on the guy running with 600+ WHP.

Nice chart but where's your info from?

Your chart list the A4 with AMB motors as a forged crank yet my A4 with an AMB motor as a cast crank. What up with that?

[AudiA4Turbo22]

they are all cast in the 1.8T and so are the AEG cranks. The only forged cranks are the TDI crank and the 2.0 FSI ones.

I am in the process right now and we have cast cranks.

[RecklessTuning]

I bet your crank isn't cast. Notice the size difference. I have pretty much every north american audi/vw crank sitting at my shop. Trust me you can see the difference in the 2 just by looking at them. Also VAG uses an unorthodox style to forge their cranks which might be the reason your 'shop' thinks it's cast. Post of pic of you crank.

forged


Cast

[Jet Jockey]

they are all cast in the 1.8T and so are the AEG cranks. The only forged cranks are the TDI crank and the 2.0 FSI ones.

I am in the process right now and we have cast cranks.

Well I'm not so sure all of them were cast and the post above shows some 1.8Ts with forged crank although I'm not sure of his source.

As I stated the shop looked at my original OE crank from my motor and confirmed it was a cast version.

All TDIs have a forged crank that's a given as is the one in the TFSI motors.

Speaking of the 2.0L FSI's crank, does anyone know which crank it is we can use for our motors?

I called Audi today and they tell me there are at least 3 kinds of cranks available for the 2.0L FSI motor. Apparently one model by OE part number is the same for the A3s and A4s and then there is another that only fits the A3?

Does someone know if there is an actual physical difference between all the FSI cranks or is it just VAG playing with part numbers?

Does anyone know the part number for the FSI crank that's required for our motors?

[Jet Jockey]

I bet your crank isn't cast. Notice the size difference. I have pretty much every north american audi/vw crank sitting at my shop. Trust me you can see the difference in the 2 just by looking at them. Also VAG uses an unorthodox style to forge their cranks which might be the reason your 'shop' thinks it's cast. Post of pic of you crank.

forged


Cast

Thanks for the pictures...

I can't really tell the difference between the two, size wise anyway because the pictures are obviously not taken at the same distance.

However the cast crank seems to be of a smoother texture.

Is the forged one from an AMB motor?

What's the weight difference between the two cranks?

Is there a number I can reach you at? I'd like to get more details from you.

TIA.

[O2VW1.8T]

Too much miss info and crap, Here listen to bobq
http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthrea...ankshaft-guide

[A4 TSCHUSS]

Reckless, you have "AMB" listed as forged and it is not. It is cast, and here is a pic of my stock crank out of my 03 amb engine code A4. And as you can see it even matches your picture you posted for cast.

[A4SoftWalker]

Call up IE they know their stuff:

http://www.intengineering.com/18t-20...14923-1-2.html

[Jet Jockey]

Reckless, you have "AMB" listed as forged and it is not. It is cast, and here is a pic of my stock crank out of my 03 amb engine code A4. And as you can see it even matches your picture you posted for cast.

Thanks David.

Do you know how much a forged TDI's crank weighs by any chance?

What about the weight for 2.0L FSI forged crank?

[RecklessTuning]

Reckless, you have "AMB" listed as forged and it is not. It is cast, and here is a pic of my stock crank out of my 03 amb engine code A4. And as you can see it even matches your picture you posted for cast.

That is defantly a cast crank.

Also bobq is a good source for information. I am speaking from my fist hand experience. All the pics I've posted are parts in my possession that I have disassembled myself.

You can use any 2.0T crank in our engines but you need to swap the oil pump gear with the one on your stock 1.8t crank.

[A4 TSCHUSS]

Thanks David.

Do you know how much a forged TDI's crank weighs by any chance?

What about the weight for 2.0L FSI forged crank?

No Clue.

[Jet Jockey]

You can use any 2.0T crank in our engines but you need to swap the oil pump gear with the one on your stock 1.8t crank.

Yes that's something I know about the 2.0L FSI motor. However there are several models of the crank used for the 2.0L FSI motor and depending on the motor code they are not interchangeable.

I need to get the correct part number to see which one is good for our 1.8Ts.

[Jet Jockey]

No Clue.

Thanks.

[AudiA4Turbo22]

my shop said that the 2.0FSI motors from a passat that have the PLASTIC valve cover are the ones that work. I'm trying to confirm engine codes so I can post up. Integrated definitely know there stuff.

[RecklessTuning]

The FSI crank part number that is in one of my stroker cars when I bought it new from the dealer...

[SleeperAvant]

Jet, would you ever knife-edge your crank? That could be an option instead of replacing it?

[RecklessTuning]

Jet, would you ever knife-edge your crank? That could be an option instead of replacing it?

I wouldn't recommend this on a cast crank. I also wouldn't waste my money on it.

[dougyfresh]

That is defantly a cast crank.

Also bobq is a good source for information. I am speaking from my fist hand experience. All the pics I've posted are parts in my possession that I have disassembled myself.

You can use any 2.0T crank in our engines but you need to swap the oil pump gear with the one on your stock 1.8t crank.

Then why is your spreadsheet list AMB as forged?

Sorry, I don't trust that spreadsheet in post # 7

[Jet Jockey]

The FSI crank part number that is in one of my stroker cars when I bought it new from the dealer...

"The freight out 25.00"... I have to assume that's the weight of the crank in its packaging box, no?

If so that's 7 pounds lighter than a cast crank assuming David's scale is accurate. That's pretty significant.

[RecklessTuning]

Then why is your spreadsheet list AMB as forged?

Sorry, I don't trust that spreadsheet in post # 7

That sheet was composed of a lot of tech's on the vortex. I have taken apart AMB bottom ends that have had forged cranks in them.

"The freight out 25.00"... I have to assume that's the weight of the crank in its packaging box, no?

If so that's 7 pounds lighter than a cast crank assuming David's scale is accurate. That's pretty significant.

The freight out is the cost $25.00

[Dan[FN]6262]

JJ, why do you need a new crank? did I miss something? did your motor let go or something?

[diagnosticator]

According to the 2003 A4 spec sheet, the AMB crank is forged, but I don't believe it. A cast crank looks different compared to a forged crank. On a cast crank, you can see the sand grain pattern from the sand mold. A forged crank has a "worked" surface finish appearance that is distinctly different than the sand grain dull finish of a cast crank. Forged cranks also don't have a ground-off mold parting line at the rod journals.

[diagnosticator]

what about the tdi crank?

Forged, for sure.

[FORCE_FED_DUB]

JJ, why do you need a new crank? did I miss something? did your motor let go or something?

This!

[Bische]

The BEX 190hp 1.8 version has forged internals.

Both cast and forged parts are cast, difference with forged pieces is that the slab is banged between two form halves for its final shape. This is done under extreme pressures, over 750tons. This causes socalled plastic-deformation in the metal making it much denser and gives better control over how carbides are located in the metal, so they cant interfere and contribute to formation cracks.
Making the material stronger. That way you can have less material for an equal strength = weighs less.
Both are then machined for journal surface etc.

Then theres billet cranks -the route ill be going, this is fully machined out of a chunk of disired material. Much higher precision, even lower weight and stronger than a forged crank.

[davkav]

Sorry to be resurrecting an old thread.

Bische are you sure that the BEX model has forged internals?

I was going to purchase rods and pistons this summer and maybe go 1.9 but if the BEX is definitely all forged ill probably stick with what Ive got.

I really don't think they are, seen as the BAM engines don't even have forged rods and there 225 bhp stock...

[Bische]

Im trying to find the thread i read about it, cant seem to find it anymore. But looking at partnumbers, the rods are not the regular ones found in amb/bfb/avj/alt's.

BEX use the same crank as AVJ,BFB and AMB partnumber: 06A105021
BEX use connecting rods with part number: 06D198401, these are used in the AWA too, 2.0FSI engine. AVJ, BFB and AMB use partnumber: 06A198401
one interesting thing i found now is that the BEX uses a different vibration damper(belt pulley) than the rest, different flywheel too.
BEX pistons is partnumber: 06B107065N which is the same as AVJ, BFB, AMB and ALT

So the difference seems to be the rods, its a shame i cant find the posts where i read about BEX having forged internals.
BUT if the rods are indeed forged(or even sintered) it would hold up better than the rest, not as good as with aftermarket forged rods of course.

[AudiA4_20T]

regardless of being forged, the rods are always the weak point

[pape]

there is a guy on vortex that does over 600whp on a cast crank. Their not weak they are just heavy. More rotational mass = slower RPM gain = slower spool.

Here is my G14 classified Excel sheet since you want more details about cast and forged cranks.

here is my 2004 BFB engine with BFB stock 1.8t crank you chart shows it as forged but your pics of the cast crank are identical to mine.