question about our egts with my nitrous setup

[xxbmxlsxx]

im running a wet nitrous setup on my 01. i have piggies, straight pipes, and apr stage 1 93 octane flash as power mods. im running a wet setup and have had great luck with my jetting for a 30-40 horse gain. now im wanting to step it up. i have no way to log the car. i worry that stepping the shot up will really push the limits of the exhaust flow capabilities of my k03s. im afraid that by the engine putting out that much more power that the exhaust wont be able to escape the motor quick enough through the k03s and will cause potential issues. i would guess that if this is the case my egts would be super high and maybe the ecu will do something to save me before i go to far. anyone have any input on this? what the potential dangers i could be facing when the k03s are most likely my biggest restriction at this point. i really want to go up to 75, maybe even 100.

i know most guys dont like nitrous so keep your negative comments to yourself. i would just like to hear from guys that know these cars and their ecus and failsafes. i would think that my trying to force to much exhaust gas through the little k03 and that might cause issues, not that im maxing out my fuel system or motor capabilities, but the possibility of rod/piston failure will increase if my cylinder pressures are too high, and i would think that possibly the restrictive k03 could cause that aswell

[NOTORIOUS VR]

Good and valid question IMO. Probably the turbos are a restriction already.. They might flow a little more but assuming your APR flash retains the stock EGT protection settings, I'm sure the ECU will start to compensate (dump fuel) long before anything goes horribly wrong.

BUT you should really invest in at least VAG-COM to do some basic logging of fuel trims, EGT's, and knock when you're playing with a setup like this. Not to mention Lemmi tweaking your ECU a bit on the timing side of things.

[Sales@RAI]

yea man first step is to get a vagcom. Much cheaper than a new engine, and essential when you're doing a mod like this

[xxbmxlsxx]

well im running tuesday night in the street car shootout here at gateway and my goal is 12.1x. ill probably leave it where it is for now as i believe that is possible

ive always heard that apr is the most conservative tune and i talked with the guy at nos about my jetting and they jet them slightly fat he said. im running what he told me to use. he said it would likely net a bit more power than usual because of the cooling effect on the tt car

if someone is in the st louis area that can help me log by then or out there that would be awesome

[NOTORIOUS VR]

If you want to at least see if you're running a safe AFR, I would get on a dyno asap and make a few runs back to back with the dyno's wideband hooked up.

[Tormented]

Hell yes. Repping the STL haha. sorry i realize thats irrelivent but its good to see someone here from stl

[xxbmxlsxx]

so i may be able to get on a dyno and use a vag. what things need to be logged? ive never used the vagcom stuff but prettty sure they have

[antoanS4]

are u going for a 75shoot or 100 shoot

[xxbmxlsxx]

running 50 now would like to step up to 100 but 75 would be fine

[omgwtfbbq!]

I feel like if you're not maxing out the stock fuel system you won't be flowing too much exhaust.

[NOTORIOUS VR]

I feel like if you're not maxing out the stock fuel system you won't be flowing too much exhaust.

You're forgetting he's running a wet system.

[AudiSportB5S4]

so i may be able to get on a dyno and use a vag. what things need to be logged? ive never used the vagcom stuff but prettty sure they have

With VCDS/VAG Log the following. At most 3 per log session... Change the VCDS Setting Block Interval from 55 to 25 to get more readings.

Channel 002 fuel injector duty
Channel 003 maf readings, load, and throttle position and timing
Channel 004 intake temps
Channel 020 ignition correction
Channel 021 ignition correction log 20 and 21 together
Channel 026 knock voltages
Channel 027 knock voltages log 26 and 27 together
Channel 031 O2 voltages
Channel 032 readout
Channel 115 boost

[omgwtfbbq!]

You're forgetting he's running a wet system.

I don't see how adding more fuel adds from the stock fuel system adds more exhaust than running a crap ton of boost would.

[xxbmxlsxx]

think about it. boost is the same because the k03s cant produce anymore, but... power output jumps up 50, 75 or whatever the shot is. so now the motor is pumping more air out at a faster rate. well at least its trying to. now the tiny little k03 exhaust housings have to be able to pass that air quickly enough. at least this is what my concern is. if the little k03 housings are restricting the flow enough i would think it could potentially cause super high cylinder temps and pressure which could cause rod or piston failure.

can i log egts? this would really help me know that im still within the threshold of the motor. air fuel only tells so much. you can have great airfuel and still melt down the motor

[Tormented]

What nitrous kit are you running? Also is there any issue running a nitrous system as well as a water/meth kit?

[xxbmxlsxx]

its a basic NOS wet kit that ive used on all my cars for the last 8 years. nozzle is in the passenger bipipe right before throttle body. have a main arming switch then a micro switch under the gas pedal that i can only hit when i mash the throttle. no purge, i dont like to waste nitrous or bottle pressure so i give it a few taps in neutral until the revs jump and its ready to go. i always run at least 1000psi bottle pressure for consistent spray.
ive never used meth so i dont know. timing could become an issue. i like to keep things simple.

[NOTORIOUS VR]

I don't see how adding more fuel adds from the stock fuel system adds more exhaust than running a crap ton of boost would.

I guess you don't know how nitrous works then.

[omgwtfbbq!]

Well explain it then. Horsepower doesn't increase exhaust output, you would be flowing out everything that flowed in, so the only additional input would be the nitrous itself, along with the extra fuel. I know nitrous acts as an oxidizer, so you can burn more fuel and make more power, but again, if hes using the stock fuel system and no one has run into restriction problems maxing out their stock fuel system without nitrous how would he run into restriction problems with it? Is the nitrous adding more mass flow rate than the turbos would?

[sfored]

In case i've missed.. are you spraying on stock ECU , chip or a special chip (low boost, timing); GIAC had make me a NOS chip 1.1 BAR (K04s) ; I was hitting a progressive 100 wet shot (Nitrous Express)...
I think all of the above are good advice for the sake of the motor but I think the k03 shafts are going to say ... ENOUGH DUDE :)

[NOTORIOUS VR]

Well explain it then.

You know there is a thing called google. Works pretty well. http://auto.howstuffworks.com/question259.htm

Horsepower doesn't increase exhaust output

Instead of saying you don't know how nitrous works, I guess I should have said you don't know how an internal combustion engine works with that comment. Looks like you have a lot of reading to do.

[NOTORIOUS VR]

I think the k03 shafts are going to say ... ENOUGH DUDE :)

Shaft speed is determined by RPM's of the turbo which (ultimately) is controlled by the wastegates. He's not running excessive boost, he's spraying nitrous to increase combustion chamber pressures.

[omgwtfbbq!]

You know there is a thing called google. Works pretty well. http://auto.howstuffworks.com/question259.htm



Instead of saying you don't know how nitrous works, I guess I should have said you don't know how an internal combustion engine works with that comment. Looks like you have a lot of reading to do.

I meant that if you're making x horsepower on boost and x horsepower on nitrous or with an NA setup your exhaust flow should be very similar. Again, if he is not maxing out stock fueling, he should not be flowing any more exhaust than someone making the same power with just more boost, therefore he should not run into issues with restriction.

[sfored]

Shaft speed is determined by RPM's of the turbo which (ultimately) is controlled by the wastegates. He's not running excessive boost, he's spraying nitrous to increase combustion chamber pressures.

i guess your point is that NOS is adding to the engine HP.. as in creating a more powerful NA car. .. hence should not have any real affect on the turbos unless the exhaust side restricts and causes the EGTs to go high and in turn it may impact the overall performance ...?

I was asking if he is spraying on chipped ECU or a special tuned ECU that is programmed for lower boost..

[NOTORIOUS VR]

I meant that if you're making x horsepower on boost and x horsepower on nitrous or with an NA setup your exhaust flow should be very similar. Again, if he is not maxing out stock fueling, he should not be flowing any more exhaust than someone making the same power with just more boost, therefore he should not run into issues with restriction.

Nitrous adds (or forces depending on how you look at it) oxygen into the CC. With more oxygen you need more fuel to make the power, which he is adding by injection through the nitrous nozzle. The injectors themselves are not supplying the extra fuel.

Basically what I'm getting at, K03's are not doing too much above 19-20psi, but his nitrous setup is inducing even more oxygen into the CC on top of what the turbos are feeding the engine. So essentially you need to look at his setup as a bigger turbo setup (bigger then K03's) but with an exhaust housing/wheel of a K03 blocking the flow.

It's practically the same reason why K03/k04 hybrid turbos don't show much gain over a straight K03 turbo. So therefore yes, he is already having a restriction in the exhaust side of things.

i guess your point is that NOS is adding to the engine HP.. as in creating a more powerful NA car. .. hence should not have any real affect on the turbos unless the exhaust side restricts and causes the EGTs to go high and in turn it may impact the overall performance ...?

I was asking if he is spraying on chipped ECU or a special tuned ECU that is programmed for lower boost..

Correct on point one.

I believe he's using a OTS AWE (Giac AFAIK) ECU. With no tweaks.

[xxbmxlsxx]

im using the basic apr 93 octane flash. the egt is what concerns me most i guess. egt is very important when tuning, it will let you know how far you can push or when you need to back off. i would think that if my egts were crazy high the car would go into limp mode or something, wouldnt it? i guess i really need to get a vagcom and see whats happening. keep any information you may have coming, i appreciate all of it. trying to get that 11 second pass without spending $1000s on turbos. pretty sure ill get it as long as the track is open tuesday

[Brendon1098]

im using the basic apr 93 octane flash. the egt is what concerns me most i guess. egt is very important when tuning, it will let you know how far you can push or when you need to back off. i would think that if my egts were crazy high the car would go into limp mode or something, wouldnt it? i guess i really need to get a vagcom and see whats happening. keep any information you may have coming, i appreciate all of it. trying to get that 11 second pass without spending $1000s on turbos. pretty sure ill get it as long as the track is open tuesday

oh you'll get it, but how many times I don't know.

I used to build nitrous systems for VW's and Audi's and let me tell you. You're keeping things simple with your bare bones setup and CHEAP (for now) until it pops. Get a PURGE at the very least, revving it up in neutral with no load on it and spraying is more damaging than doing it with load. Revving a car without load actually causes minute damage. But with the bottle on it, it will do it a much more aggressive rate.

Exhaust flow will increase with cylinder pressures as they increase from the nitrous.

Simple LOG IT, stop being cheap! it WILL cost you. I guarantee it.

[xxbmxlsxx]

i dont rev it i just tap the gas a bit. never let it rev past like 4k. but i hear ya. im not cheap i just dont like all the added crap some people use with a kit. once you purge it once its good all night. sometimes i just crack the fitting at the solenoid. im no newb to nitrous either. just on a twin turbo car with tiny little turbos, only thing thats got me a bit concerned

i need to log it then i will know how much it likes or dislikes it and how much i can run. im pretty confident that the 50 shot is all i need for an 11 sec pass at like 115 or so. with my conservative apr tune it shouldnt be pushing it too hard.

anyone near stl want to help log this thing, or does anyone have the link to exactly what i need to do it myself. i need to just buy the shit

[xxbmxlsxx]

i would like links to the exact pieces i need so i can log everything on this thing. id like to be able to tweak it a bit but not sure if anything works with the apr software

[Tormented]

I think you should be able to use either VAGCOM or ECUx to log.

[blazns4]

i think with apr they caN RE RITE YOU EGTS ND DELTE THEM FROM YOUR TUNE DONT HOLD ME ON IT BUT I NO REVO DOES

[xxbmxlsxx]

i dont want to delete the egts. they are very important.

which vagcom do i need? there are numerous ones out there. if someone could please provide me the link to the one i need to buy that would be helpful

[NOTORIOUS VR]

You can only log everything with the full version... or the "other" version, which can become a pain sometimes.

That said it's all about how much money you want to spend. If you want to do it on the cheap, buy the ebay cable and get version 401.