intake manny fun

[quiksilver0220]

Well as I am saving up for my stage 4 clutch, headers, motor mounts, install and trip to cali to have JHM do it all for me. I wanted to see what I could do with the intake manny myself. Being a long time porter, I have done many LSX mannys (yes you can port the phenolic mannys and get nice gains) ford mannys as well as other cars. I took what I know as well as my nice porting tool and no its not a dremel lol, and tore my manny apart yesterday. This wasnt something I was nervous about being I had torn my A6 4.2 apart before and it was pretty basic and easy.

As Jay said the stock S4 mannys flap is HUGE and very obstructive. My first thought take it out and just sand down the humps, woulda worked but the humps are hollow. Ok next idea was too fill the humps with 3500psi epoxy and then sand it all down. Well I knew I was pushing it as the flap is just thin crap that nothing sticks well too. I roughed it up, cleaned it, filled it, waited for it to cure and after sanding the top down was not happy with the results.

So next step call JHM and ask if they would be willing to sell me the flap. Talked with dan and they didnt have one avaliable but he told me that they use good ole delrin. I called a local company and took down the stock piece and had them cut 3 pieces of same size guy was cool and just gave it too me. Took them to the shop and sanded them down and shaped them aerodynamically to aid in cutting through the air. drilled the piece and attached it too the arm and was very happy with how it turned out. Pics below are of my attempt on the stock piece and the rough cut piece of teflon impregneted delrin i used. Ok one step out of the way.

Step two, I looked over the manny and smoothed out all the rough edges and also noticed the trumpets were misshaped and not optimum. So smoothed them, shaped them consistent, and then polished them. Took the manny to a friend and had him do a light extroding to it. He wasnt able to do much due to the weird shape but looks great. Then cleaned the entire manny and reinstalled the flap made sure it made a perfect seal to the top and had smooth action. Waited for a couple hours for it all to seal and then reinstalled it in the car. Also took this time to add some washers to the bolts that come with the spacer kit as this is acually something that shouldnt be overlooked. The 5mm allen head bolts that they use are almost identical size to the bolt hole and can start sinking themselves down into the hole rather than exerting proper downforce.

Driving it I noticed right away a smoother idle, as well as a bit more down low. What took me by surprise was the transition when the flap dropped. Never before have I felt the flap drop but now I do and man was it stronger up top. Car feels alot quicker and when you can mod something an acually feel a difference you know you have gained a good bit. How much I cant say but I do know this will not be the end with this project. I plan on perfecting my intakes porting and also making a new flap for the TB and enlarging it as big as it can go. But for now for a few hours of work this is well worth it too do and know what it feels like to be flapping.

ALOT of Thanks to JHM for their awesome advice and R&D without I wouldnt have been able to do this! I would provide pics but with respect to JHM and their designs, R&D, such I have chosen not to show any. Not for the faint of heart but thats why you can call them up and order one and have their excellent work at your doorstep. Not to mention I do know they do some other stuff as well as building ramps to direct airflow, optimizing flow paths and u get the bigger TB, so well worth the money.

Keep flappin on

To see pics check the link
http://www.*************.net/forum/s...ead.php?t=4217

[quiksilver0220]

Ok guys I tore mine out again today and have a completey redesigned flap that I designed using various wind models today this seemed the best flowing it just cuts the wind and it directs it upward. Ill be installing that tonight and doing some more porting and polishing tonight and will post some pics of the work I am doing in a bit Im at the shop playing, things I do when bored lol

[quiksilver0220]

Okay guys did some more work but cant show ya the porting I did, but I polished the runners even more and massaged the trumpets a bit more and shaped them better. I also redesigned the flap alot more so far this seems to be the optimum shape for cutting the air. Also was able to thin out the flap even more. Working on a new arm so that I can have the flap acuator lower it even more out of the way. Heres a few pics you can see the flap redesign I did and the polished trumpets. Just got done resealing it and will install in a few hours after its dry and report how it feels.

[earthtodan]

I'd really like to see those pics, but the URL has a bunch of *********** in it. Relink?

[g35mt]

wowsy, interested!!

[04v8s4]

Very interested...

I did a little bit of port massaging & gasket matching on my 5.0L GT-40 mustang manifold. Felt similar type gains. Would love to see some nice pictures of the flap. I'm sure there's some decent gains to be had there.

[quiksilver0220]

Well I tried to post pics here but couldnt load em so linked it to a site that I could

[quiksilver0220]

Well got it all together and took the battery off and let the car reset so it could relearn and wow this is awesome. The new flap design is great and the car plain hauls at any point in the rpm band. I love feeling when the flap drops. With the reshaping and optimizing of the trumpets my low end has even gained do I have dyno proof yet no. But I have a spare stock intake and will do a back to back dyno here soon but I am attuned to my car an know when something works or doesnt. An when my car just pulls and pulls and dont stop, where before it would start to slow as the rpms rose it doesnt do that now. I hit the rev limiter for the first time in a long time today cause the revs came so fast and hard. Very happy with this mod now just to get the TB done and keep uncorking this thing.

[earthtodan]

Well I tried to post pics here but couldnt load em so linked it to a site that I could

Right but the link doesn't work because it's full of asterisks.

[quiksilver0220]

Failed attempt at modifying stock flap http://s302.photobucket.com/albums/n...&current=3.jpg side view of failed attempt http://s302.photobucket.com/albums/n...&current=1.jpg view of modified flap redesign and ported, polished, and reshaped trumpets http://s302.photobucket.com/albums/n...&current=8.jpg another view http://s302.photobucket.com/albums/n...&current=7.jpg and another view http://s302.photobucket.com/albums/n...&current=6.jpg

[quiksilver0220]

there forgot i have a photobucket I could host them from

[Ill 3.0]

Here you go:

Failed attempt at modifying stock flap

side view of failed attempt

view of modified flap redesign and ported, polished, and reshaped trumpets

another view

and another view

[beemercer]

Great work with this, get some logs before and after.

[quiksilver0220]

will do also since I have another stocker will be doing a back to back dyno

[earthtodan]

Any other mods on your car? Will this benefit a stock S4?

[quiksilver0220]

I think my car is as close to stock as can be an yes this would helpa stock car. I have a 2.5 cat back with piggie pipes, intake spacers, and a tune. Thats all next will be headers, stage 4 clutch and lwfw, and a few more things when all the funds are here, Im bout 3/4 there.

[quiksilver0220]

Yeah just have to be extra careful an it splits pretty nicely I didnt damage the gasket at all, sealed it with black gasket maker which did well. Your flap looks pretty good but I wanted to keep everything as low and thin as possible thats why I went with the very small headed bolts to keep everything as aero as possible. Modding the stock flap was a learning experience lol

[Hazziar]

What do you think about using a thicker piece of carbon fiber, countersinking tapered screws on top and running lock nuts on the bottom? Not sure whats more intrusive to the incoming air; too thick of a flap or bolt heads poking up.

[J0HN_R1]

Two things, 1. Quicksilver - could you post some smaller pictures, they aren't small enough

2. So when the flap opens, it directly feeds only 4 of the 8 ports..?

[quiksilver0220]

Two things, 1. Quicksilver - could you post some smaller pictures, they aren't small enough

2. So when the flap opens, it directly feeds only 4 of the 8 ports..?

Hey John 2 things, 1. could you be a rude inconsiderate jerk anymore, your not condensending enough. Answer to you question

is I only had my droid avalible to take pics.

2.Answer to your other question is No. Since I am not one that holds a grudge ill explain

the intake manifold is a 2 stage manifold. The bottom contains trumpets that are normally open an the flap is held against the roof to cover the

other inlets which are a much shorter path. The trumpets are the path for the long runners good for making low and mid range torque, at

5000 rpms the vacuum to the flap is cut and the flap drops exposing the 8 small runner inlets up top that are the short runners that are good for

high rpm horsepower.

[quiksilver0220]

What do you think about using a thicker piece of carbon fiber, countersinking tapered screws on top and running lock nuts on the bottom? Not sure whats more intrusive to the incoming air; too thick of a flap or bolt heads poking up.

Your idea is good as well carbon fiber being a bit more expensive but not gunna be of anymore benefit over the delrin or metal. As to countersinking that is a great idea and one I thought of didnt find any I was fond of. But I did find some of the smallest thinnest I could to barely stick up and I use lock nuts on the back side of mine with red locktight.

[beemercer]

Two things, 1. Quicksilver - could you post some smaller pictures, they aren't small enough

2. So when the flap opens, it directly feeds only 4 of the 8 ports..?

There are 8 ports on the top of the manifold that feed the runners. The runners have two inlets, bottom trumpets and the top ports. The flap seals the top ports and forces the motor to induct the air charge through the long runner.

[B6JoeS4]

JHM makes a killing off their manifolds.

[quiksilver0220]

Ok did alot more port work last night and broke out the micometer and went over each trumpet and shaped them all perfectly and opened them up a bit more. Also took my gaskets and matched them perfect to the lower intake and then matched them all the way up and opened the runners up a bit. Also had a thought while looking at the upper intake when the flap drops in the circled area of the photo I posted I noticed that on the other side of the open area opposite the way the air is suppose to flow is a small air director. But when looking close at it I noticed that it was not shaped optimum at all it was acually shaped detrimental to smooth flow. So upon these premade directors I built epoxy runners that transform them into perfect runners directing flow up and into the runner when the flap drops. As to how it feels my low end is noticably better and my upper RPM PULLS WAY HARDER!!!! really shocked me just these few differences made even over the previously ported and modded intake. http://s302.photobucket.com/albums/n...urrent=8-1.jpg

[dparm]

Until I see before/after dyno, it's hard for me to believe that your car "PULLS WAY HARDER!!!!"

Not crapping on your effort, just want to see some objective results.

[quiksilver0220]

Well I am looking to do just such thing, but I know my car and I know what it feels like. If I were some 19 year old kid that just wanted to get some kinda BS ecred then maybe I would be a bit more objective. But I am 37 years old, been building perfromance cars all my life, I own my own performance shop that specializes in LSx cars. I personally own a 560rwhp NA pump gas powered 99 maro, a 900+ rwhp 408 single 88mm turbo 02 trans am, among other performance vehicles. I have tuned many cars, ported many mannys and heads, and built more engines than I can count. I am not about to say that this made a difference if it didnt make a difference. JHM showed many times already that it gained 17+ at the wheels all in the upper rpms. I just wanted to see if I could duplicate the results so far I would have to say its made a significant difference. Hard to find AWD dynos here since cobb closed up shop so been trying to find a source.

[SquiddyB6S4]

Damn, I didn't even know that Cobb went down. What the heck is happening to all the good tuning houses these days? <acting like I don't know the reason . . . >

[quiksilver0220]

I dont think cobb went down but they closed up shop here in Utah dont blame em aftermarket is pretty small here

[halik]

Until I see before/after dyno, it's hard for me to believe that your car "PULLS WAY HARDER!!!!"

Not crapping on your effort, just want to see some objective results.

I'm the guy with the flapper DIY (check imploding.com), I honestly couldn't really tell whole lot of difference. The one piece of evidence is that my MAF readings are higher than what the ECU has stored in by a gram or two, and that's even with a dying MAF (positive fuel trims).

[quiksilver0220]

did you do any porting to take full advantage?? course maybe I am just feeling the fall cool weather kickin in but since these were days apart so who knows Id love to get on a dyno and see for sure cause butt dyno says hell yeah

[halik]

did you do any porting to take full advantage?? course maybe I am just feeling the fall cool weather kickin in but since these were days apart so who knows Id love to get on a dyno and see for sure cause butt dyno says hell yeah

Yeah, cleaned the velocity stacks (the edges especially, not exactly round from the factory) and added paths around the upper runner that sticks down into the throttle body opening.

[SquiddyB6S4]

I guess the other option is to remove the original flap holders from the shaft and have your own solid units made to incorporate the flap right onto the shaft with an even lower-profile design. I would think that that would help quite a bit, since the original arms attached to the shaft look like they would be absolutely horrid for flow.

[halik]

I guess the other option is to remove the original flap holders from the shaft and have your own solid units made to incorporate the flap right onto the shaft with an even lower-profile design. I would think that that would help quite a bit, since the original arms attached to the shaft look like they would be absolutely horrid for flow.

The problem with that is the shaft is set fairly low in the mani to accomodate the thickness of the flap mechanism - if you want to have the flap built into the shaft, the shaft would have to sit about 2cm higher.

Alternatively I suppose you can get some alu blocks machined that will bolt onto the shaft and then the flap bolts onto that... but sounds like a lot of work.

[quiksilver0220]

yeah that may be something I will look into in the future right now just making small changes here and there to make the most out of the intake we have. I already have a guy making me some new TB blades so I can enlarge the TB substantially

[SquiddyB6S4]

The problem with that is the shaft is set fairly low in the mani to accomodate the thickness of the flap mechanism - if you want to have the flap built into the shaft, the shaft would have to sit about 2cm higher.

Alternatively I suppose you can get some alu blocks machined that will bolt onto the shaft and then the flap bolts onto that... but sounds like a lot of work.

Not that much work IMO. I didn't mean to machine a new shaft, just to remove the arms that the stock flaps (and the replacement ones that are being discussed here) bolt to. Then machine your own arm+flap units that then attach to the shaft in the same way that the stock arms attached, except that the new ones would be sculpted to get them the heck out of the way of the incoming air. I would easily get behind such an effort, and I'd love to help out if anyone wants to do such a thing. I'm pretty handy with SolidWorks, and I know plenty of machinists. Heck, I've done a bit of machining; I just don't have access to machinery like I used to. I also don't have a spare handy, and I don't really want a non-running car for a while.

[J0HN_R1]

I already have a guy making me some new TB blades so I can enlarge the TB substantially

Let us now if he'll make more copies, depending on the results & price...