JMW's Big Turbo Build

[jmw241]

BIG EDIT to Come:

Hardware:
Garrett GTX-3071 .63 AR turbine housing
PSI Manifold/Down pipe/Lines
Tial 38 MM WG w/ Reroute
ER Comp FMIC
FX400 6-puck w/ Single Mass 15lb Steel Flywheel
630 CC Injectors
Software:
Eurodyne Maestro tuned by me.


Stock Motor (Crossing fingers not to blow it)

Will be running 1bar on the stock block, I'm hoping to land in the 260-280 WHP range.

[alpinestar180]

im excited for this one.

[hercfe]

2 things, first if you think you're gonna get 375 AWHP with a standard 20g your SOL. you will need a tdo6 full frame to make that kind of power with a 5v. the dsm head flows much differently than ours, so plan on maxing out at 400bhp with that turbo unless you raise the rev limiter to the moon and crank the boost to 30+ psi. Second, and perhaps most important, if you think you're going to spool a 20g to 20+psi at 3600 you are mad. On a 2.4L with built head and BC stage 3 cams I made 25psi at about 3800 rpm. You will literally have no powerband with that turbo. If you want 375 awhp, i'd go for a 3076r on a 630cc file. 550cc at 4 bar will NOT support 500bhp(375 awhp) for long-regardless of what pump you use-which is pointless anyways because you are running a pump capable of flowing 650hp worth of fuel through fuel lines that can't handle 500 without stress.

Seriously, I have a LOT of experience with td05-20s in 7, 8, and 10cm, as well as td06 20's and td06/7 25's in 8 and 10cm, and super 20's in 7 and 8 cm and a bastard tdo5/td07 25 in 10cm, and it is just an all around BAD choice for late model street turbocharging. If you know you're gonna get a 30r next year, do it right the first time. I can PROMISE you, you will hate yourself for using the 20g on a 1.8t.

[MMMB00ST_A4]

^ Aaand /thread...

Sounds like hercfe is trying to save you a massive headache, and knows what he's talking about. Build sounds solid everywhere else. Good luck..

[jmw241]

A 1.8l A4 made 26lbs at 3600 on a stock motor, with this exact set-up.

That's that I was told at least. I trust the source.



I am open to insight though, that's why I created this thread, so i'll keep my options open at this point.

[JoshDub]

TTIWWOP

[Bische]

Precision 5557bb

Good luck with the build!

[dougyfresh]

PSI T25 Manifold
PSI Oil/coolant kit
PSI/RAI downpipe
Custom turbo inlet pipe with HKS filter

WHY is everyone making a custom TIP for this manifold? I thought a TIP was already designed and ready for sale with the downpipe?

Why Maestro? There are other options besides Maestro.

[doublezero30]

i would highly recommend upgrading the brakes. stock brakes suck even with a stock car. my b5s4 setup was night and day difference. and some people even recommend going bigger.

[BAB1990]

AMB Head why? Don't make the mistake many have done, use an AEB head.

Why the AEB pistons? The only advantage is that they are forged. I would suggest picking up a set of JE if you are looking for a forged piston. Otherwise, remain with your stock pistons - just re-ring them.

You say you are going to use the N75 but than claim you are going to use a forge MBC. Don't use both, stick with the N75 and using Eurodyne you will be able to map your car much more efficiently.

Speaking of tunning, what do you plan on running? I would suggest Eurodyne, for $900.00 you can't go wrong.

[PRY4SNO]

Not to pollute your thread with a n00b question, but what needs to be done to the AMB block to fit 20mm vs. 19mm wristpins on the rods?

[nein-reis]

Not to pollute your thread with a n00b question, but what needs to be done to the AMB block to fit 20mm vs. 19mm wristpins on the rods?

Nothing. All you need is new rods that use 20mm wristpins.

[vdubjetta02]

I know its completly different, but i ran a 20g on a 2.0l Subaru and it didnt even hit full boost till around 4000 RPMS.....i can't imagine the 1.8 from Audi spooling it any earlier

[jmw241]

Great responses fellas, now were getting somewhere.

WHY is everyone making a custom TIP for this manifold? I thought a TIP was already designed and ready for sale with the downpipe?

Why Maestro? There are other options besides Maestro.

I was not aware of a TIP from PSI. Then again Jeff and I have not really got into the nitty grity, more overall talk. If one is available I will be getting it from Jeff. Why Maestro, well It will allow me to tune my car how I want to, with whatever turbo I end up with, or switch over too. It will also alot me to adjust my maps. to what I would like, when I want too. I will also be learning quite a bit while doing this, and It's something i have an intrest in and would love to take the time to learn about tuning ect. I plan on loging my car every day and making adjustments as needed. The goal of this build is not just to make my car faster, but to learn as much as possible, learn how to build a motor/take one out, and to learn how to tune a car.

I have learned quite a bit thus far with this car, and it will continue to be a learning experence. Yes, I could screw somthnig up with the internals of the motor, or with the tune, but I am willing to take that risk. If I can get everythnig back together and tuned properly, myself, then it will be of great satisfaction to me. Knowing that I built a car, and tuned it, and it runs well and is powerful and strong/reliable, then whats better than that?

Worst case scenario, I blow a motor b/c I built it wrong, or I blow a motor because I leaned it out to much or something like that haha. Either way I'll just rebuild and try again.

i would highly recommend upgrading the brakes. stock brakes suck even with a stock car. my b5s4 setup was night and day difference. and some people even recommend going bigger.

Thanks for the input Nate, I think I'll end up with some b6 S4 brakes, or a 350x35 mm Porche BBK. Not sure yet on how much I want to dump into brakeing, I know the BBK will be more for looks than anything else, but there is a chance that my car will start to see the track this summer and the BBK will be of use then to reduce and or eliminate fade.

AMB Head why? Don't make the mistake many have done, use an AEB head.

Why the AEB pistons? The only advantage is that they are forged. I would suggest picking up a set of JE if you are looking for a forged piston. Otherwise, remain with your stock pistons - just re-ring them.

You say you are going to use the N75 but than claim you are going to use a forge MBC. Don't use both, stick with the N75 and using Eurodyne you will be able to map your car much more efficiently.

Speaking of tunning, what do you plan on running? I would suggest Eurodyne, for $900.00 you can't go wrong.

AEB pistons - 20mm wrist pin, good to do if your going around 400whp. I could end up there so why not do it? Why not JE? They are $500 vs. the $150 I can spend on a set of AEB pisons. Why AEB head, well A. I have an AWW head curently, I want an audi head. B: I want to stay small port, no need to go large port where I am going to be for power. <450wheel even w/ a 30r. I will be running both an N75 and a MBC to limit boost to 20psi. With the Revo 550 file I'm not sure If I will be able to limit boot electronicly. Even if I can do so, I would want to MBC as a safety.

As I said above, I will be running the Revo 550 file. Then switching to Maestro.

Not to pollute your thread with a n00b question, but what needs to be done to the AMB block to fit 20mm vs. 19mm wristpins on the rods?

Nothing, just a larger wristpin which will require the appropiate rod at the least you would want to hone the cylenders for the new pistons.

I know its completly different, but i ran a 20g on a 2.0l Subaru and it didnt even hit full boost till around 4000 RPMS.....i can't imagine the 1.8 from Audi spooling it any earlier

This is deffinitly relivent to this thread. As this prove that the 20g can spool ~4k rpms. Now even though the 1.8l has less dispalcement, we could make the arguement that the PSI manifold flows better than the one you had on your car.

What manifold did you have? If it was a tubeular manifold then it would hit full boost later, as the runners are longer and it will take a higher RPM to spool a turbo, but you will of course get more top end.

[7speed]

The first and most important thing that you need to do is get rid of that clutch and get yourself the 240mm version. Trust me.

[jmw241]

^ um, no. I just got this 6k ago, it's awesome. Done at leas 15 6k drops and it's rock solid.

[7speed]

once you start to make power upwards of 350wheel, the clutch will quit.

[jmw241]

Full 3 inch exhaust is done, sounds effing amazing!

Polished ER Comp fmic w/ black couplers is ordered up. Thanks Mike@Ringer! Ill have it here for the weekend, so my lil k03 can have fun filling it up for a lil while :-).

[Sales@RAI]

You won't make 450awhp without the AEB. No need for AEB pistons either. You need cams on the list, and why spend the money on revo BT software and injectors now rather than get everything right the first time?

[audidude86]

do you have a sound clip of the exhaust?

[jmw241]

^ no clip just yet, I need to find somthing to record it with.

You won't make 450awhp without the AEB. No need for AEB pistons either. You need cams on the list, and why spend the money on revo BT software and injectors now rather than get everything right the first time?

Well I have not made any moves yet on the motor end of things, but you would deffinitly recomend the aeb head even if I stay 1.8 and only want to make 350-400 wheel?

Also, you see no need for the 20mm aeb pistons? If I'm making closer to 400 I have read that the 20mm is ideal.

I really have not given much though into cams, but am deffinitly open to ideas. I herd IE is comming out with a set. What would you recomend? I don't need anything agressive.

As for software, my options are 550cc plus revo, would cost me 400 total. Or 630's or 870's with maestro, around 1150.

If I go with the 20g setup the 550 file would work well off the bat and is alot cheeper. If I went with a 30r, I would rather have maestro so that I can run a very conservative tune.

[AudiA4Turbo22]

A 1.8l A4 made 26lbs at 3600 on a stock motor, with this exact set-up.

That's that I was told at least. I trust the source.

I am open to insight though, that's why I created this thread, so i'll keep my options open at this point.

I will be running the same turbocharger and these figures are correct.

[Sales@RAI]

If you want to make power, get stuff that is suited to make power. Almost every build in here wants big power and a quick spool. Usually they pick quick spool and end up frustrated that they did not make the power they wanted. You will not make an every day safe 400awhp on pump gas without AEB head and cams. And if your paying the same amount for all of them, get some serious cams

[7speed]

Like I said above, don't look to make too much more than 350whp with that clutch. It wasn't designed for that kind of power. Also don't waste your money with Revo or Unitronics. Do it once and do it right, get the Maestro. You don't need and AEB head to make 400whp as shown by Jeff(PSI), just a built head.

[Audi Skate Snow]

Maestro is pretty good shit... but you gotta remember people that havnt been doing this for a while or at least understand tuning completely are not going to be happy with maestro. Unless they have pre-made files not just a base one.

Has any B6 Dyno'd with it yet?

[jmw241]

Like I said above, don't look to make too much more than 350whp with that clutch. It wasn't designed for that kind of power. Also don't waste your money with Revo or Unitronics. Do it once and do it right, get the Maestro. You don't need and AEB head to make 400whp as shown by Jeff(PSI), just a built head.

I feel you on both accounts. I clutch should be fine, I'll be happy with 350 wheel. As far is the tune goes, we'll see what happens. Jeff has stated that the 20g runs very well on the 550 file, so it really would not be a waste per-say.

Maestro is pretty good shit... but you gotta remember people that havnt been doing this for a while or at least understand tuning completely are not going to be happy with maestro. Unless they have pre-made files not just a base one.

Has any B6 Dyno'd with it yet?

This is my delima. I don't know much about tuning, but I'm willing to read, learn, and also log the hell out of my car. Since I got my ross-tech I have spend alot of time loging all sorts of blocks just to get a feel for it.

I'm a quick learner, and an overall smart person so I feel I could understand just about anything with enough time and information to digest. Maybe maestro is for me, maybe it isn't, only time will tell.

[Audi Skate Snow]

In that case I say it is worth a try. There are plenty of people on the forums that are willing to help that have already worked out the kinks using maestro.

[7speed]

Yeah I was gonna buy Maestro, but instead I have to save up to buy a new clutch.

[jmw241]

In that case I say it is worth a try. There are plenty of people on the forums that are willing to help that have already worked out the kinks using maestro.

Ok, I'll deffinitly think it though. Is it to the point where I could start with a 28xx file from a guy like Bananas and just make tweaks to it for my specific needs?

Are you useing Maestro? Your Sig says Revo (what file)?

[Audi Skate Snow]

Bananas is the guy to talk to about Maestro... he seems to have it down pretty well.

I am running a one off (more like 3 off) revo file. Same file kwan used on his 445whp dyno with 3071r turbo.

[dougyfresh]

Bananas is the guy to talk to about Maestro... he seems to have it down pretty well.

He should start charging people for his services. The amount of time he puts in to tweak everyone's files warrants some kind of compensation. Either from the owner of the car or from Tapp directly since its fueling more sales of Maestro because everyone knows he'll tweak their files.

[BAB1990]

He should start charging people for his services. The amount of time he puts in to tweak everyone's files warrants some kind of compensation. Either from the owner of the car or from Tapp directly since its fueling more sales of Maestro because everyone knows he'll tweak their files.

I've offered to pay him, multiple times and he wont accept. :(

[jmw241]

^ I agree. I would definitely be willing to compensate him in some way shape or form if he actually were to tweak a file of mine. Well said Doug.

[Audi Skate Snow]

He should start charging people for his services. The amount of time he puts in to tweak everyone's files warrants some kind of compensation. Either from the owner of the car or from Tapp directly since its fueling more sales of Maestro because everyone knows he'll tweak their files.

truth.

[Shayneduboulay]

I'm going with Maestro because I have heard so much good stuff about it. I have never had to tune a car before so the guys that sell Maestro around here said that I would have to keep coming back for fine tuning. I hope this is something that I could do myself eventually because this shop is over 2hrs away.

[dougyfresh]

If you have a plan and do it all at once there is no reason to tweak your tune in the future.

[Shayneduboulay]

Im doing a 5857 build and I'm just waiting on Agtronic to finish my manifold and downpipe so I can install everything all at once. Its gonna be a big difference from my revo stg1 lol.

Thanks Doug!

[Dan[FN]6262]

I see 25psi at 4.5k rpms with my setup

[A4 TSCHUSS]

You don't need and AEB head to make 400whp as shown by Jeff(PSI), just a built head.

Are we talking about actually making or just having an optimistic dyno graph? Sure you can "make" 400whp with less than a full on build if you go to the right dyno. An example, check out this drama central thread click here. Read in to it and you will see how the guys at APR show an example of numbers on paper not equaling performance on the street with the graphs and video posted.

I also trapped the same with a setup that did 392whp as a car that did 40whp more at the time according to its graph.

As for the clutch, an FX400 is supposibly rated at 480 crank hp according to a guy I spoke to at Clutch Masters which would be 400whp but I had 2 of them and they both slipped with my 30r at a boost level that I made just under 400whp on the dyno I used.

[FourRings4me]

If you have a plan and do it all at once there is no reason to tweak your tune in the future.

When you get into tuning with Maestro, there's no such thing as set it and forget it. Fine tuning never ends.

As for the clutch, an FX400 is supposibly rated at 480 crank hp according to a guy I spoke to at Clutch Masters which would be 400whp but I had 2 of them and they both slipped with my 30r at a boost level that I made just under 400whp on the dyno I used.

Remember clutches are rated at holding torque, not horsepower.


On a side note, I've had 2 MHI turbos on my DSM. The evo III 16g and the Td06h 20g. With 18psi on the 20g with stock head and block, I was seeing full boost at about 3800rpms. The 20g is a great turbo. However, there are so many other better options out there that are available today. 20g's were being used in like 2001. It's old technology. The 20g turbo came off the Mitsu Fuso box truck is where it originated.