CXRacing SMIC Install

[groovetek]

Just thought I'd run through what I've done for my CXRacing SMIC install. I think the trimming and the shroud fitment is crucial for the performance of these ebay cheapies.

My initial install was simply with slightly flared shrouds, and my IAT logs showed a minor improvement over stock; however, at the same time, it fixed a boost leak from the stock IC's so I can't say for sure whether or not because the turbo wasn't working as hard that I benefitted from the CXR's.

It has been getting very hot lately, and as a result I feel the car is losing power, so thought I'd re-do the install as last time I noticed just how much of the IC's were being blocked by the front support. After seeing pictures of people installing ER's, wagners, etc. and seeing that they all did trimming to the front support, I figured I'd do it as well; I wonder how many people have gone to this length for the CXR's, probably very few.

Anyway, I'm not doubting that they are crap, but they might be better than people are making them out to be. The casting at the ends is horrible, I had to grind away a little around the fittings so that it was smooth. Otherwise, the design of the core looks decent to me; same as that of the CXR FMIC, just with less overall surface area.

Car is a mild 20psi setup with custom turboback exhaust, DNA Stage 3 tune, darintake + k&n, Bosch 550cc Green Tops.

Anyway, what I did was, after trimming away the front support, I had to cut open the shroud to expand it; I added a section to make up for the larger perimeter of the shroud (hard to see in the mobile phone pics), so that the perimeter of the shroud matches up with the perimeter of the IC as best as possible; a little patch of the inner side of the IC's is still inevitably blocked by the chassis rail, so that is unavoidable of course. Also cut about 3cm slits inwards from the edge of the corners of the IC's, which I used a heatgun to soften and flare out the opening of it.

Mounted on securely using a variety of cable ties. Sealed against the IC using cloth race tape.

[julex]

Oh my, why did you buy this junk....

[spinall4]

ok and now, any difference?

[Mooseimage]

From some logs a member did on these SMIC, it showed that they were worse than stock, if not the same. Here's a rule of thumb:

ER SMIC > JHM/Ebay FMIC > AWE SMIC > RS4 SMIC > S4 SMIC (> Ebay SMIC)

Both Ebay items are made by CXRacing. In other words, CXR FMIC yes, CXR SMIC no. Results may vary though.

[vagra4nt]

looks like it should help. re-log and post results.

[groovetek]

Oh my, why did you buy this junk....

As I was getting a boost leak through one if not both of my IC's, which I have confirmed as the car has cleared right up after changing to these. Anyway, I'm the kind of person who likes to "give it a go".

These were the logs from when I just put them on, prior to doing trimming and further modifications to the shrouds.



That was with a fairly aggressive setting on my MBC as you can see (spike above 22, taper down to 22; have since fixed this spike by moving the location of my MBC reference to straight from the intake manifold); I will re-log, and see how the temps look now after the modifications. It is getting rapidly warmer here down under now, but at least shoudl be able to compare the temperature sweeps and see if further improvements have been achieved.

All in all, even if I haven't improved the cooling efficiency with my latest modification, at least I know they are still better than stock and I no longer have a boost leak! I should mention that if I were to buy again, I'd probably get a set of AWE's; I bought these over a year ago shortly after my K04's went in, but never got the chance to put them on until awhile back. I couldn't afford to get AWE's back then, and actually right now can't as well until I sell my other car (A4 2.8 quattro), so eventually I will invest in a set of better coolers but for now I'll make do with what I have.

[Capt. Obvious]

It looks like a 1st grader welded those things together. Considering they're made in China, they probably were.

[M.S4]

waste of time and money.

Might as well have stayed stock.

[Dubluv11]

It looks like a 1st grader welded those things together. Considering they're made in China, they probably were.

bahahaha

[julex]

It looks like a 1st grader welded those things together. Considering they're made in China, they probably were.

You assume the welder actually went to school...

[RolledMySTi]

Should have read my post and saved yourself the money.

[97B518TQM]

Waste of time and money indeed. Those logs do show they are crap. 5 degrees cooler IATs than stock? Yep, a waste of money.
I am not sure what a DNA tune is or what company that is but unless you are running something bigger than K04s that spool up seems awfully slow.

[shorterthanrich]

Those welds are hilarious.

If it was a cheap replacement for busted stock ones, fine. Though, you can pretty much pick up stock ones used for free. If you bought these for performance gains...I just don't get it. They've been logged before and shown to be pretty useless.

Also, LOOK at those welds.

[bigern45]

guys, these intercoolers show improvement!!! why are you all complaining?? and if it does look like pigeon shit, maybe thats the only welding sticks lil xieng-long could find?!?! ever think of that!! BRAVO CXRACING!!!






btw, i have a set of these high quality smics sitting in my garage, barely used and guaranteed to not leak if anyone needs a set. pm me for the deal of the century..

[shorterthanrich]

guys, these intercoolers show improvement!!! why are you all complaining?? and if it does look like pigeon shit, maybe thats the only welding sticks lil xieng-long could find?!?! ever think of that!! BRAVO CXRACING!!!






btw, i have a set of these high quality smics sitting in my garage, barely used and guaranteed to not leak if anyone needs a set. pm me for the deal of the century..

I've said it before, and I'll say it again. That log of you on those SMICs is still one of the funniest things I've ever seen. I laughed so hard when I was telling my friend about it.

[lbs4]

the spool doesnt seem that bad, full boost by 3800

[Avant Fetish]

What makes these perform so "bad"? Is it the end tank design?

I remember asking about these a while back and got the same reaming.

[bigern45]

What makes these perform so "bad"? Is it the end tank design?

I remember asking about these a while back and got the same reaming.

ya know, not really sure. one thing that i am positive of, is my IAT graphs during my tuning session. looked like friggin' mount everest, as it went up, up , up and away!!! op actually has some logs of them doing better than stock, but at most its only by 10* or so at certain points. agreed, he isnt totally sold on them, but they were a necessity due to lack of funds, which i understand, and he didnt mind sharing the logs, eventhough no doubt we all knew this would be a slaughter. so kudos to him, and i hope they continue to perform better than stock, especially since his summer months are coming up. hopefully he can afford a devils own meth kit or maybe used AWE's soon..

[julex]

This is my test of CX Racings SMICs from almost exactly 1 year ago, let the graphs tell the story:

http://www.audizine.com/forum/showth...=1#post4408198

[97B518TQM]

the spool doesnt seem that bad, full boost by 3800

You are kidding, right??? This is a S4 stage 3, not an A4 stage 3.

[julex]

You are kidding, right??? This is a S4 stage 3, not an A4 stage 3.

The pull was in 2nd gear so naturally the turbos came in pretty late since the engine revved up pretty quick. In third or even better fourth gear they would have time to spool up properly at decent RPMs.

[groovetek]

I'm not sure why I'm getting so much abuse over just trying this shit out; yes, I could have bought another set of stock IC's second hand for $50 probably, but then oh hey they might just leak again... mmm yippee!

I see in julex's post he did not modify the front support nor the shrouds; and even an acknowledgement is made there regarding that fact; not to mention I have grabbed a blade to scrape along the surface of the air channel and I guarantee there is NO paint or layer or whatever on them; whether or not that was something that CXR changed last year I don't know.

So what do I have here? End of the day, I spent $350. I fixed a boost leak. I got minor drops in IAT. There are 2 other people who have tried them out with some data; there are many others who just like to give others shit. Might be an american thing, I don't know, I haven't been there before. I think this forum will end up having alot of information about good products and yet none about the bad ones because people won't be bothered posting if all they get is slaughtered/flamed. It's like, would you want to read a car magazine that only reviewed fast, expensive cars? I don't see anyone flaming the magazine editors for reviewing corollas and i30's every now and again. (probably a bad example, as the corolla and i30 are good cars, but hey performance wise they are crap, so it's a similar comparison, no? Of course an M3 which costs 4 times as much is going to perform much better!)

As for the boost, indeed it is abit laggy; at the time of the logs, my exhaust was 100% stock other than the pre-cats had been gutted. It now has a custom setup, I don't think that should impact the IAT logs too much but we will see anyway.

Looking at the log spreadsheet, at 3040rpm, it was 13 psi, and at 3600rpm it was 22. On observation, I seem to hit 20psi at about 3200rpm; apologies for using VAG-COM and its shitty sample rate, have not got a hold of ecux yet. Also, being in 2nd gear, spool would be *just* lagging behind a 3rd gear run (oh, thanks ^^ julex). That's another factor I should mention, a 3rd gear pull would mean the car is moving alot quicker so the IAT's would look better.

[shorterthanrich]

You're not actually getting THAT much flak, man. No worries.

[groovetek]

Cheers, I think I've just had bad experiences generally on this forum; lots of people here, lots of information, but lots of abuse, haha. This thread has been ok so far; but inevitably a few posts like "waste of time and money. Might as well have stayed stock. "; I'm not sure I want to keep my leaking stock IC's, hmm =)

[M.S4]

Cheers, I think I've just had bad experiences generally on this forum; lots of people here, lots of information, but lots of abuse, haha. This thread has been ok so far; but inevitably a few posts like "waste of time and money. Might as well have stayed stock. "; I'm not sure I want to keep my leaking stock IC's, hmm =)

I stand by my statement. You could've purchased stock for <50$ and could've spent the rest on a meth kit and seen better IAT's while you save for real intercoolers.

But do what you want, I don't care what you do to your car.

[julex]

Cheers, I think I've just had bad experiences generally on this forum; lots of people here, lots of information, but lots of abuse, haha. This thread has been ok so far; but inevitably a few posts like "waste of time and money. Might as well have stayed stock. "; I'm not sure I want to keep my leaking stock IC's, hmm =)

No dude, don't take it personally AT ALL. We are just trying to present other side of the coin here.

As to my comment about paint coating. The paint in nowhere near the end caps. The actual fins and bar surfaces are painted though. You can easily see it anytime you want by taking some acetone and rubbing any of the bars... it looks to me, and everyone else who inspected them in detail, like the core itself was dipped in that silver paint and hence the horrible heat transfer.

Maybe newer batches don't have that "feature", but the fact is that majority of them are completely useless.

Enjoy the ICs, it seems like you got an improved set there.

[shorterthanrich]

Cheers, I think I've just had bad experiences generally on this forum; lots of people here, lots of information, but lots of abuse, haha. This thread has been ok so far; but inevitably a few posts like "waste of time and money. Might as well have stayed stock. "; I'm not sure I want to keep my leaking stock IC's, hmm =)

Anytime you post here, some jackass will give you shit. Don't sweat it. Tis the way of things.

I really think you should have skipped on the cx racing smics, though. The stock ones aren't commonly known for leaking. Also, ICs aren't THAT terrible to swap, so in the very rare case that they did start leaking (again), you could swap them again. I think you'd have been better off saving for a bit longer and getting some decent intercoolers.

Your car, though, and I'm not ragging on you for it...just not what I would have done. IMO, I would take them off, pick up some cheap/free used stockers, sell the CXs for anything you can, save and get some legit ICs. With yout setup, I'm sure you can gain quite a bit from a nice FMIC or decent SMICs. Just, my opinion, though.

[Nez]

I think they look good and better then standards intercoolers.

[groovetek]

Finding used S4 parts is near-impossible in Australia, haha. I guess I could get my stockies leak tested to see where it's leaking boost from; there is no visual damage to them that's for sure, and the problem doesn't seem to be there when I set my MBC to 18psi or lower (what happens is, when the boost suddenly rose, the car was dumping too much fuel into the engine, would clear up a little in the higher revs, but definitely signs of metered air escaping; not shown in part throttle fuel trims because it only happens at WOT); which is why I suspected leaking plastic end-caps at high boost. Another forum user here down under also had the same problem and that was just on plain K03's.

I am saving up for better IC's at the moment; but definitely no point trying to hunt down a pair of stock ones to put back on, as it would have to be from the states, and shipping will cost probably close to $100 anyway, and then again, run the risk of having the same problem occurring. I guess in my case as well, the CXR's helped abit, at least I know they won't be leaking until I get my new IC's. Thanks for advice though!

Anytime you post here, some jackass will give you shit. Don't sweat it. Tis the way of things.

I really think you should have skipped on the cx racing smics, though. The stock ones aren't commonly known for leaking. Also, ICs aren't THAT terrible to swap, so in the very rare case that they did start leaking (again), you could swap them again. I think you'd have been better off saving for a bit longer and getting some decent intercoolers.

Your car, though, and I'm not ragging on you for it...just not what I would have done. IMO, I would take them off, pick up some cheap/free used stockers, sell the CXs for anything you can, save and get some legit ICs. With yout setup, I'm sure you can gain quite a bit from a nice FMIC or decent SMICs. Just, my opinion, though.

[shorterthanrich]

Finding used S4 parts is near-impossible in Australia, haha. I guess I could get my stockies leak tested to see where it's leaking boost from; there is no visual damage to them that's for sure, and the problem doesn't seem to be there when I set my MBC to 18psi or lower (what happens is, when the boost suddenly rose, the car was dumping too much fuel into the engine, would clear up a little in the higher revs, but definitely signs of metered air escaping; not shown in part throttle fuel trims because it only happens at WOT); which is why I suspected leaking plastic end-caps at high boost. Another forum user here down under also had the same problem and that was just on plain K03's.

I am saving up for better IC's at the moment; but definitely no point trying to hunt down a pair of stock ones to put back on, as it would have to be from the states, and shipping will cost probably close to $100 anyway, and then again, run the risk of having the same problem occurring. I guess in my case as well, the CXR's helped abit, at least I know they won't be leaking until I get my new IC's. Thanks for advice though!

Fair enough. I'd like to see how much of an improvement you get with some more serious ICs.

[70 eliminator]

sorry i was at work and couldn't lend my support sooner, but i applaud the effort to quantify how good or bad the cx racing coolers are. i was trying to make an informed decision about buying them a month ago and 3 days of google searching and digging through forums just yielded statments like tthey are the worst evarrr.....and 1 log that shows the core material of the intercoolers combusting and increasing iat's well beyond the compressor on the turbo's temp! when i read the complaints about siivery paint i questioned the knowledge of the poster as all bar and plate intercoolers are effectively brazed together and mistaking the brazing material for paint took away a small amount of credibility. no offense julex you were the only one who took the time and effore to post they suck with a decent graph.. you were trying to help people like me avoid getting ripped off...

bar and plates are stacked layers of aluminum w/ basically solder holding them all together. they are clamped and run through an oven to make the core. the silvery residue is merely sloppy application. i have f1 era garett cores htat are completely covered in the brazing material. if pics would help the explanation i can add them later.

if the larger flow path actually leads to a higher pressure drop i am def going to wonder how they made such a bad design you would have to try to make the thing suck so bad.
it had a lot going for it ... better construction larger flow path and larger mass but seems to have failed now i just want to see exactly how bad...


anyway, i applaud getting actual info, specifics of the install, and having someone brave enough to hang it out on the forum. like i said, i wasted three days trying to at least quantify and all i got was: "these are the worst things in the world - don't even think about it." i mean if we did that in regular life the only drinks you could buy in a bar would be top shelf and the only hookers out there would be 5k a night. so what i'm trying to say is these may be the blue ribbon of beers. there is a place for them besides the gargbage can. some people used too get drunk on beer in the white can that said beer in black letters - at least now w/ this info i know i will have to drink an entire suitcase to get drunk

[groovetek]

Well lucky me got a 55degF ambient day to do direct comparisons!

Dialled up the MBC a little to try and get to roughly 22psi peak; it no longer overshoots past 22, but previously it only overshot a little bit anyway so for the sake of this comparison I don't think it should make too much difference.

Apologies for not taking data up to 7000rpm this time.



Looks like every bit of effort helps; I'll see how these hold up this Summer.

[obijohn22]

looks as though it definately did help a little. ~15deg difference over stock. I feel like you have done all that can be done though at this point. good effort. thanks for the logs and info.

[julex]

sorry i was at work and couldn't lend my support sooner, but i applaud the effort to quantify how good or bad the cx racing coolers are. i was trying to make an informed decision about buying them a month ago and 3 days of google searching and digging through forums just yielded statments like tthey are the worst evarrr.....and 1 log that shows the core material of the intercoolers combusting and increasing iat's well beyond the compressor on the turbo's temp! when i read the complaints about siivery paint i questioned the knowledge of the poster as all bar and plate intercoolers are effectively brazed together and mistaking the brazing material for paint took away a small amount of credibility. no offense julex you were the only one who took the time and effore to post they suck with a decent graph.. you were trying to help people like me avoid getting ripped off...

bar and plates are stacked layers of aluminum w/ basically solder holding them all together. they are clamped and run through an oven to make the core. the silvery residue is merely sloppy application. i have f1 era garett cores htat are completely covered in the brazing material. if pics would help the explanation i can add them later.

if the larger flow path actually leads to a higher pressure drop i am def going to wonder how they made such a bad design you would have to try to make the thing suck so bad.
it had a lot going for it ... better construction larger flow path and larger mass but seems to have failed now i just want to see exactly how bad...


anyway, i applaud getting actual info, specifics of the install, and having someone brave enough to hang it out on the forum. like i said, i wasted three days trying to at least quantify and all i got was: "these are the worst things in the world - don't even think about it." i mean if we did that in regular life the only drinks you could buy in a bar would be top shelf and the only hookers out there would be 5k a night. so what i'm trying to say is these may be the blue ribbon of beers. there is a place for them besides the gargbage can. some people used too get drunk on beer in the white can that said beer in black letters - at least now w/ this info i know i will have to drink an entire suitcase to get drunk

Trust me, no mistake here about the paint. The paint was covering all material evenly and it would come off when rubbed with certain thinners. More worrisomely, the fins that normally are sandwiched between bars were also covered in silverish paint. If you moved fins couple of times, the paint would start peeling off. I spent hours trying to remove the paint by submerging the ICs in part cleaner box and using tens of dollars worth of thinners but I would never succeed to do it right so I finally gave up. I eventually sold them on eBay.

In a cosmic comedy of coincidences, I wonder if OP MAYBE bought the set from me in which case he would receive much improved version of CX Racing ICs...

[kylel2838]

Welcome to Audizine. Unless you spend $7K on stage 3 components you get flamed and busted on. It's an unbroken circle that always leads to you being a douchbag because you tried something different.

[Avant Fetish]

looks as though it definately did help a little. ~15deg difference over stock. I feel like you have done all that can be done though at this point. good effort. thanks for the logs and info.

Hope this don't sound like a dumb question...but...what type of temperature drop will show a "noticeable" improvement?

Is there a certain temp drop number that will associate it with any type of performance (HP) gain?

[vagra4nt]

Hope this don't sound like a dumb question...but...what type of temperature drop will show a "noticeable" improvement?

Is there a certain temp drop number that will associate it with any type of performance (HP) gain?

Depends on pressure and humidity. A ballpark figure is 1% increase in hp for every 10 degrees. if you want more details you'll have to search or wait for someone who likes to post in detail which will most likely be right below...

[vagra4nt]

maybe 3-5hp over stock IC's in the OP's test conditions. Probably not worth finding out unless you own a dyno.

[Avant Fetish]

I guess its not that bad if your in a bind like mr. groovetek.

[bigern45]

yeah, i didnt see much flaming going on. he needed them for a repair, and kudos to him, it worked and he is showing some improvement. and not sure about how much HP will be reaped with temps being different, it all really depends on how aggressive the timing curve is. the more aggressive, the more hp, but also if temps get too high, the more timing gets pulled and cf's go up and torque onset and pull to redline is choppy..