Another clutch/fw thread...

[Trevor Ely]

Hey folks,

I hate to bore OGs with another one of these threads, but I was hoping that maybe there were some updates since I last looked at this topic a while ago.

Anyway, I was wondering what would be the recommended route for a clutch and flywheel for my current setup...

B5 1.8T (ATW)
-GIAC J31
-K04-15
-Apikol SMIC
-5Bar FPR
-Labree HFC
-APR/Borla cat-back

...Last I looked, I recall a handful of folks loving on the Clutchmaster FX400, 6-Puck clutch and either a Clutchmaster 240mm Alum. flywheel or a 228mm Steel flywheel. Basically, what I'd like to know is any experiences you guys have had with either of these products, and any other suggestions really. Currently, the car utilizes some sort of SMFW and stock-like clutch that the previous owner had installed.

Any help is appreciated!

[AudiNFS]

FX400 sounds like a good setup to go with. go with the steel LWFW also. Minimal to no gear rattle and perfect clutch/FW for DD IMO.

[Trevor Ely]

Nice to hear that...Where does one purchase a setup like this?

[biketsai]

www.ringer-racing.com has pretty good prices, I got mine from there. The FX300 might suit your needs as well; but the FX400 would be great if you consider getting a bigger turbo in the future.

I have the FX400 with a 15lb Steel LWFW and an 8 puck/full face disc. Its real nice!

[JK35]

Segmented Ceramic/steelFW is a good choice for you. it will work well now, is remarkably streetable, and will take you well into big-power land if you choose to go that route.
I think that more importantly than your list of modifications, would be your intended use and how you drive the car.
I used a SEGMENTED (that's what you're describing when you say 8 puck full face disc) Southbend ceramic and an AWE aluminum FW first time around with 442-496AWHP. It lasted 1700 miles (about 40-50 full power launches and about 8 hours on the rollers) before it began slipping horribly. Andy at SB built the plate as far as he could go with a Sachs Race PP (for free) milled a new friction surface for the AWE flywheel (the friction surface I bought from AWE appeared to be mild steel, not to mention they sell bolts that are too short for their flywheels. - I think I proved this quite completely, but they still sell the same bolts that only catch 2.5mm thread) and only charged me for a new disc at cost. I now have a graphite ceramic 6 puck and a chromoly flywheel and I have about 50 launches and 3000 miles on it and have sprayed about 40lbs of nitrous (direct port, progressive 4 stage) and during inspection teardown last week it was in remarkably good condition.
I advocate Southbend. As much as I'd LOVE to have a CM twin disc, I can't overlook the awesome customer service and the way they stand behind their products at SB.

Also, I have had aluminum flywheels in every car I have owned in the past 10 years, and I now know what folks mean when they say these cars don't like aluminum flywheels...
steel and chromo FW's are almost as light and work much better on this platform IMO, and I surely haven't lost any power on the rollers, nor anything that I can feel. In fact, I think I've gained a couple (hundred) HP if my memory serves me correctly ;)
when I mentioned your goals and how you drive... my initial Segmented stage V SB I killed... that was a 650ft/lbs rated clutch, and I cooked it with over 150ft lbs less. SB's fault? -hell no. MY fault, It's because I built the car so I could drive it like I stole it. -and do just that
-be honest with yourself when you're considering ratings and specs.

[Trevor Ely]

Thanks for the information...To answer the question regarding driving style, the car's driven daily and will probably never see the drag strip. It's driven 'spiritedly' once in a while.

I basically was just interested in a little better feel, and it's nice to know that it could be abused if necessary. Kind of like having a fancy watch that works several hundred feet under water. ;)

[terraflata]

Segmented Ceramic/steelFW is a good choice for you. it will work well now, is remarkably streetable, and will take you well into big-power land if you choose to go that route.
I think that more importantly than your list of modifications, would be your intended use and how you drive the car.
I used a SEGMENTED (that's what you're describing when you say 8 puck full face disc) Southbend ceramic and an AWE aluminum FW first time around with 442-496AWHP. It lasted 1700 miles (about 40-50 full power launches and about 8 hours on the rollers) before it began slipping horribly. Andy at SB built the plate as far as he could go with a Sachs Race PP (for free) milled a new friction surface for the AWE flywheel (the friction surface I bought from AWE appeared to be mild steel, not to mention they sell bolts that are too short for their flywheels. - I think I proved this quite completely, but they still sell the same bolts that only catch 2.5mm thread) and only charged me for a new disc at cost. I now have a graphite ceramic 6 puck and a chromoly flywheel and I have about 50 launches and 3000 miles on it and have sprayed about 40lbs of nitrous (direct port, progressive 4 stage) and during inspection teardown last week it was in remarkably good condition.
I advocate Southbend. As much as I'd LOVE to have a CM twin disc, I can't overlook the awesome customer service and the way they stand behind their products at SB.

Also, I have had aluminum flywheels in every car I have owned in the past 10 years, and I now know what folks mean when they say these cars don't like aluminum flywheels...
steel and chromo FW's are almost as light and work much better on this platform IMO, and I surely haven't lost any power on the rollers, nor anything that I can feel. In fact, I think I've gained a couple (hundred) HP if my memory serves me correctly ;)
when I mentioned your goals and how you drive... my initial Segmented stage V SB I killed... that was a 650ft/lbs rated clutch, and I cooked it with over 150ft lbs less. SB's fault? -hell no. MY fault, It's because I built the car so I could drive it like I stole it. -and do just that
-be honest with yourself when you're considering ratings and specs.

I absolutely love your outlook on your car!

[Trevor Ely]

So, time is nearing when I'll need to finally replace the clutch and just wanted to get a few more suggestions on this topic, as I'm considering going the route of CM FX400 matched with their Steel flywheel...I'm unsure which of the two puck selections makes the most sense, though... (4 or 6?)

I know these are all items I could discuss over the phone with CM, but I'd like to be somewhat educated on this and have some more suggestions before placing an order.

Thanks again for the help!!

[viceprp]

Holy old thread. Go 6 if you had to choice from the two.

[Dalers08]

I have a clutch for sale in the classifieds, PMed.

[Trevor Ely]

Thanks for the messages everybody...One question that I've wondered is how much the lightened flywheel helps the revs? Is there a pretty noticeable difference in quickness of revving? One of my big complaints with this car, which might also be contributed by the DBW, is the annoyingly slow way it revs.

[M-Hood]

Thanks for the messages everybody...One question that I've wondered is how much the lightened flywheel helps the revs? Is there a pretty noticeable difference in quickness of revving? One of my big complaints with this car, which might also be contributed by the DBW, is the annoyingly slow way it revs.

The problem is not the DBW, it is the fact that the flywheel is dual mass and about 25 lbs. You will even see a difference in throttle response going with a single mass flywheel that is the same weight as the stock dual mass flywheel. Giving you a better throttle response. The lighter the flywheel the easier the rpm's will rise/fall. For a daily driven Quattro you want to stick with the steel flywheels that are in the 15-20 lbs.

[Trevor Ely]

Understandable, that was pretty much what I figured.

My only concern was that the current flywheel in the car was described by the P.O. to be a single-mass unit, chosen because it was considerably less expensive. The P.O. was an older gentleman who kept things original, so I'm guessing it was something OEM or possibly the Valeo SMFW alternative that I've noticed is now offered.

Anyway, looking forward to some improvement, as it does rev painfully slow.

[Trevor Ely]

Old thread, I know...But, had another question for some of you guys.

When I was looking on Ringer Racing there was an option for the friction surface....Ceramic or "Feramic"? Benefits or downsides to either?

[M-Hood]

Old thread, I know...But, had another question for some of you guys.

When I was looking on Ringer Racing there was an option for the friction surface....Ceramic or "Feramic"? Benefits or downsides to either?

Feramic is a mix of Sintered Iron and carbon. It has a high coefficient of friction then Ceramic and a higher melting point. So it will hold a bit more power then Ceramic. The Feramic material is also more expensive and harder to get.

[Trevor Ely]

Thanks for the clarification...I'm guessing the Feramic would be entirely overkill for my uses and lack of power.

[M-Hood]

Thanks for the clarification...I'm guessing the Feramic would be entirely overkill for my uses and lack of power.

Yes. Ceramic would be way more then plenty for a J31 setup.

[Trevor Ely]

Yes. Ceramic would be way more then plenty for a J31 setup.

Great! Thanks for the help, went ahead and ordered the 240mm Ceramic FX-400 6-puck with the lightweight flywheel...Will follow-up with experiences!

[Urtorsen]

Where'd you buy it???

[viceprp]

Wow, what are your plans?! Thats a 625ft-lb rated clutch!