Tracking the S4

[akim_hobo]

Going to be hitting up Willow Springs this Sunday to track the S4. Super excited to finally see what this car can do. Any advice from track veterans, or things that are useful to bring?

I already know to say goodbye to my tires

[f3racer]

which willow springs course? the long or short course?

[mellow_sparky]

your tires will survive, it's your brakes that will take a beating. The stock pads will really struggle to haul this 2 ton beast down after a day on the track. Below is a pic from a recent track day I did - had the stock pads and really wished I had something else. Constantly bringing the car down from 130 to 60 kills the pads.

[IMG][/IMG]

[akim_hobo]

As far as I know it's the long course.

@mellow: any recommendations for decent track pads that don't squeal?

[egalley]

I did a 2 day track event, and I had no issues with my stock brakes, even late in the day they still grabbed great and I was hard on them. Obviously once these are gone I'll replace them with better ones, but I was quite suprised how well the stock ones held up.

[mellow_sparky]

hobo: i haven't researched it that much, so I don't have any recommendations - there are a couple threads over on AudiWorld that are discussing this for the B8 S4, so you might go check that out.

As for how your brakes will hold up, it depends a lot on the track. if you are going to a track that has a lot of speed variations (i.e. up to 130+ and back down to 40) then your brakes will suffer: spongy, not as much grab, etc. They heat up a lot and they tend to transfer pad material to the rotors. Don't get me wrong, they still work, but you will notice a decrease in performance. The good thing is you can get new pads, SS brake lines and better fluid for under $500 ** pretty cheap mod if you are going to be tracking your car a lot.

[Leo]

I had a 2 day event last weekend with ACNA at circuit du Mont-Tremblant. The car was fantastic, superb handling and loads of power. Prior to the event, I had replaced the stock brake fluid with ATE Super Blue, swapped out the stock brake lines with SS goodridge lines, and replaced the stock pads with EBC Yellows. The brakes were firm and had no fade on the short track sessions ( 20 minutes). On the longer sessions (30 minutes), I did notice a little fade near the end of the sessions. Remember, this is a very heavy car to slow down, and going from 120 to 40 on the long straight generates a lot of heat. The stock rotors do not dissipate heat well. I was comparing rotor temperatures with an M3 in my run group and his aftermarket 2 piece drilled rotors were always 50 to 80 degrees celsius colder than mine, right after our sessions.

That being said, you will need the following:
- Torque wrench - you need to check all your bolts before you go out - they do get loose with all those heat/cooling cycles
- Pressure gauge - make sure that as a minimum you check your tire pressure early in the morning (cold), and then adjust as the day goes on
- Replace your brake fluid, get something like Motul RBF600

Next time I get to track the car I will definitely upgrade the rotors, and try Carbotechs, or EBC Blues (Yellows are really for lighter cars), and I'll also go with the RBF600.

Enjoy it, you'll be surprised how well the car handles - I was very impressed.

[S5noob]

I had a 2 day event last weekend with ACNA at circuit du Mont-Tremblant.

A little off topic, but hey, I've been to circuit du Mont-Tremblant before! More than 10 years ago when Jim Russell driving school held their single-seater Formula 1600 and Formula 2000 driving courses there. I remember that it wasn't a flat track by any means, and had some nice challenging corners, but lots of satisfaction when you got it right. Hope to visit it again one day!

[audig]

Has anyone with the Sport diff tried tracking their S4? Did it help?

[NWS4Guy]

Has anyone with the Sport diff tried tracking their S4? Did it help?

Yes and Yes, though the person I read the writeup from said that you have to get used to it, it's not entirely seamless, it has a little disconcerting back end wiggle at times.

Look for a post from Gription over on the B8 S4 forum on QW, he has a nice writeup or 2 from tracking his, and he came from a B6 S4 which he tracked very often, so he knows what he is talking about.

[thebishman]

I had a 2 day event last weekend with ACNA at circuit du Mont-Tremblant. The car was fantastic, superb handling and loads of power. Prior to the event, I had replaced the stock brake fluid with ATE Super Blue, swapped out the stock brake lines with SS goodridge lines, and replaced the stock pads with EBC Yellows. The brakes were firm and had no fade on the short track sessions ( 20 minutes). On the longer sessions (30 minutes), I did notice a little fade near the end of the sessions. Remember, this is a very heavy car to slow down, and going from 120 to 40 on the long straight generates a lot of heat. The stock rotors do not dissipate heat well. I was comparing rotor temperatures with an M3 in my run group and his aftermarket 2 piece drilled rotors were always 50 to 80 degrees celsius colder than mine, right after our sessions.

That being said, you will need the following:
- Torque wrench - you need to check all your bolts before you go out - they do get loose with all those heat/cooling cycles
- Pressure gauge - make sure that as a minimum you check your tire pressure early in the morning (cold), and then adjust as the day goes on
- Replace your brake fluid, get something like Motul RBF600

Next time I get to track the car I will definitely upgrade the rotors, and try Carbotechs, or EBC Blues (Yellows are really for lighter cars), and I'll also go with the RBF600.

Enjoy it, you'll be surprised how well the car handles - I was very impressed.

For a heavy car like ours, consider the AP Racing 600 or 608. It has equal to or higher dry/wet boiling points than the Motul, and recovers better. I used it in a R35 GT-R and it performed better then the RBF600 imho.

Bish

[akim_hobo]

Just finished the event, and I gotta say, this is a fun car to drive. The brakes held up ok, they got a little spongy, but didn't continue to fade. My biggest problem were getting the right pressure for the tires. This track runs quite fast ( did 125+ in the front straight and 115 in the rear) ad I found my psi going from 41 to over 50psi in 20 min session. Kept having to bleed pressure as the day progressed.

The good:
- great balance, 4 wheel drifts were even, controlled and you could rotate around with throttle if you needed to. I of course tried to avoid losing grip, but when it happened ie. Turn 2, it was always controlled
- engine is superb, staying around 4-5k always gave me plenty of power
- sports dif/ quattro is great
- DSG really pays for itself on the track. I'd let the gearbox shift at redline and downshift when I was braking.

The OK:
- steering for track use is a little loose and a little disconnected.
- weigt transfer was killer on the heavy car. On omega turn into 6, you're making a diving rigt turn that ends in a left uphill. The body roll in braking on this section was delayed enough that it was hard to stay smooth on entry. Forget a chip, if you're tracking I would think a new suspension would help more than anything.
- tires. Althoug very predictable, when they got hot, they became squirrely. This could be thoug because I never could really dial in the psi.

the great:
-it was my first time out and I passed or stayed with everything infront of me. EVERYTHING. Thanks largely to the car.
-still had a quarer tank of gas, and the ride home was smooth and comfortable.

I think everyone should track this car once.

[NWS4Guy]

Good stuff, much like Grip's review. He said the same on the brakes, and from his experience, if they get spongy like that but are not truly fading, he said it was the stock fuild starting to boil coupled with the stock brake lines being rubber and not able to handle that much heat from the fuild and flexing too much.

I agree with the roll and transfer comments, mellow_sparky said the same on it after he did a racing school day in his. I think a rear sway alone would do wonders for this - those who have one say it greatly reduced body roll, and it's a DIY home project with the right tools.

[alexverve]

Just finished the event, and I gotta say, this is a fun car to drive. The brakes held up ok, they got a little spongy, but didn't continue to fade. My biggest problem were getting the right pressure for the tires. This track runs quite fast ( did 125+ in the front straight and 115 in the rear) ad I found my psi going from 41 to over 50psi in 20 min session. Kept having to bleed pressure as the day progressed.

The good:
- great balance, 4 wheel drifts were even, controlled and you could rotate around with throttle if you needed to. I of course tried to avoid losing grip, but when it happened ie. Turn 2, it was always controlled
- engine is superb, staying around 4-5k always gave me plenty of power
- sports dif/ quattro is great
- DSG really pays for itself on the track. I'd let the gearbox shift at redline and downshift when I was braking.

The OK:
- steering for track use is a little loose and a little disconnected.
- weigt transfer was killer on the heavy car. On omega turn into 6, you're making a diving rigt turn that ends in a left uphill. The body roll in braking on this section was delayed enough that it was hard to stay smooth on entry. Forget a chip, if you're tracking I would think a new suspension would help more than anything.
- tires. Althoug very predictable, when they got hot, they became squirrely. This could be thoug because I never could really dial in the psi.

the great:
-it was my first time out and I passed or stayed with everything infront of me. EVERYTHING. Thanks largely to the car.
-still had a quarer tank of gas, and the ride home was smooth and comfortable.

I think everyone should track this car once.

for your next session u need:
good brake pads/fluid. on this heavy car something like Hawk HP-Blue (~1000F) are a must.
suspension - forget about springs crap. good coilovers like KW V2/V3 or similar.
look into sway bars for body roll.
tires - no all season crap. Ultra high performance summer. Michelin PS2 are the best compromise between Street/Track, but there are better track tires.
get it, and u will see your "real" car. :-) enjoy it.

[akim_hobo]

Thanks for the suggestions guys, that kind of info is priceless. I'll be picking up pads and upgrading the fluid at the very least the next time I run. Do people generally just swap out the OEM pads for good, or do the swap each time they race?

As for suspension, as far as I've read, the Stasis Ohlins setup is the only one that's both better on the road and on the track, but I don't want to do rebuilds every several years. Anybody happier on the ROAD with V2's or bilstein Pss10's. I know they'd rock on the track.

[NWS4Guy]

Thanks for the suggestions guys, that kind of info is priceless. I'll be picking up pads and upgrading the fluid at the very least the next time I run. Do people generally just swap out the OEM pads for good, or do the swap each time they race?

As for suspension, as far as I've read, the Stasis Ohlins setup is the only one that's both better on the road and on the track, but I don't want to do rebuilds every several years. Anybody happier on the ROAD with V2's or bilstein Pss10's. I know they'd rock on the track.

I say swap the lines too, it'll be about ~$140 and since you are draining the fuild anyway, it won't take long and helps. As for the pads, if you get REAL track pads, you need to swap them at the track, they will not work well at all on the street. Track pads need to get hot to bite and work, cold they don't grip well at all, and squeal like crazy till hot. If you change pads at the track, you WILL need a VCDS cable and laptop to retract the electric servo parking brake on the rears to prevent damaging them for the swap.

[alexverve]

Thanks for the suggestions guys, that kind of info is priceless. I'll be picking up pads and upgrading the fluid at the very least the next time I run. Do people generally just swap out the OEM pads for good, or do the swap each time they race?

As for suspension, as far as I've read, the Stasis Ohlins setup is the only one that's both better on the road and on the track, but I don't want to do rebuilds every several years. Anybody happier on the ROAD with V2's or bilstein Pss10's. I know they'd rock on the track.

i would not bother with lines on stock brake setup. fluid. pad, i run Hawk HPS - best high performance street pad. no noise, relatively small amount of dust. do not need to swap them. i run them on all 4 corners. but for track u might want to get better pad for front only. i usually swapped fronts at the track myself for HP-blue (back should be 1 level less in "performance" then fronts). should be more then enough with your current setup until u go to advance groups - where u will need BBK upgrade.
i know people run Ohlins, KW, Stasis. just do not get lowest model, like Steet Sport. they are waste of money. get middle set if u do a lot of daily driving on bad roads, or higher model like V3 if u have good roads and u do not mind slightly harsh ride. both middle and high level offer rebound setup. so u can make them as u like.
tires make HUGE difference. being in LA, u can run ultra performance tires all year long (only get 12-14K miles on them though).
look into sway bars. not familiar with B8, so do research on what is recommended.

[leviathan18]

this car uses the 345mm rotor ?

[dkky996]

Thanks for the suggestions guys, that kind of info is priceless. I'll be picking up pads and upgrading the fluid at the very least the next time I run. Do people generally just swap out the OEM pads for good, or do the swap each time they race?

As for suspension, as far as I've read, the Stasis Ohlins setup is the only one that's both better on the road and on the track, but I don't want to do rebuilds every several years. Anybody happier on the ROAD with V2's or bilstein Pss10's. I know they'd rock on the track.

Pagid racing pads were best track pads I've ever used. They are dedicated track pads however and I'm not sure if Pagid makes an application for the b8 S4 yet... Just a quick question regarding your experience with the rear diff on the track. I've noticed that once I go into the corner and start applying the power for the exit, I get a decent amount of understeer then the car seems to feel lighter then starts to go into oversteer. Not in a violent way, but in a little bit of an artificial feeling kinda of way. Hard to explain but I feel that the rear diff reacts a little slow maybe? Is this the normal way rear diff feels for everyone who has tracked their S4 with rear diff? Meaning, can you feel when the rear diff comes on??

[alexverve]

Pagid racing pads were best track pads I've ever used. They are dedicated track pads however and I'm not sure if Pagid makes an application for the b8 S4 yet... Just a quick question regarding your experience with the rear diff on the track. I've noticed that once I go into the corner and start applying the power for the exit, I get a decent amount of understeer then the car seems to feel lighter then starts to go into oversteer. Not in a violent way, but in a little bit of an artificial feeling kinda of way. Hard to explain but I feel that the rear diff reacts a little slow maybe? Is this the normal way rear diff feels for everyone who has tracked their S4 with rear diff? Meaning, can you feel when the rear diff comes on??

try to use stiffer rear sway bar/coilovers, to take care of original understeer. then it wont feel "artificial". all cars from factory designed for safe understeer. sways/coilovers will help to make it more neutral, and then user power to control rotation. rear diff is an awesome thing in a properly setup car. it is what makes all BMW M series great. rear diff....

[akim_hobo]

Pagid racing pads were best track pads I've ever used. They are dedicated track pads however and I'm not sure if Pagid makes an application for the b8 S4 yet... Just a quick question regarding your experience with the rear diff on the track. I've noticed that once I go into the corner and start applying the power for the exit, I get a decent amount of understeer then the car seems to feel lighter then starts to go into oversteer. Not in a violent way, but in a little bit of an artificial feeling kinda of way. Hard to explain but I feel that the rear diff reacts a little slow maybe? Is this the normal way rear diff feels for everyone who has tracked their S4 with rear diff? Meaning, can you feel when the rear diff comes on??

I can feel it when it kicks in, but I don't feel it's slow. Try doing a 90 degree right hand turn (somewhere safe of course) turn the wheel at a roll and punch it in 1st. Your backend will rotate around almost immediately. At least I did :P You'll need to be in manual + dynamic.

I hear you on it feeling "light" when you start to lose traction though. It's more like an elephant on ice though ;)

[NWS4Guy]

Yea the sport diff monitors yaw for lateral G's, angle of steering to see if you are cornering or just losing grip due to something like ice or sand, and adjusts up to 100's of times a second.

[dkky996]

I'm used to a conventional mechanical LSD (which works seamlessly) and not a vector sensing electronic diff. You can definitely tell when the rear diff comes on. Its not a bad or a good thing, just feels lot different then what I'm used to I guess.