Broke down after reflash!?! Fueling issue? Or tune... (Now with LOGS!!!)

[PRY4SNO]

So need some help as I'm stranded and facing an unexpected bill.

Went to get flashed from Unitronic stage one to state two, using some tt225 injectors I got off the 'zine. Got flashed and car idled rough for 15 minutes then evened out. The tech took the car for a spin and noted misfires under load. I was asked to take the car for a spin and decide. I also experienced progressively worse misfires under load then all the time. I was okay for a few after clearing the codes but would always go back to that state.

Had the tech retune the car to original and he went from 2-->1+ first leaving the 386cc injectors installed but said it idled on two cylinders. So he swapped the stock ones back in and sent me on my way. I got about two kilometers away and the misfires returned, and retired me on the road. I tried swapping coil packs that vagd as misfiring. No help.

Came back to car first thing this AM found the car started up fine and drove it to a parking lot where I let it idle. Inside ten minutes it went to complete misfire chaos.

Tuner says it's my car's fueling system. I think it's the 1+ file, so I'm waiting on a tow. If it runs fine on a stage 1 tune he'll pay for the tow, else I'm on the hook. I drove in just fine, aside from a lean lambada reading coming from my test pipe.

Why's my car not taking to the 1+ file with my stock injectors??? It ran fine with them before I swapped anything.

Problem is I'm not in my city, was going on a backpacking trip, and am due back home to fly out to work Wednesday. So I definitely need a solution without paying a ton for diagnosis!

TIA, and tow is here!

[bigblue]

So your saying your running 1+ (meaning injector file?) without having the injectors in... with apr anything with a + after it is bigger injector file. stage 2 with apr is testpipe/high flow cat file. So if your trying to run an injector file with stock injectors I don't think your gonna get very far?

So your just getting random multiple misfire codes? Not exactly one cylinder or another? Not exactly sure how you'd diagnose coil packs without getting an exact cylinder down thats misfiring. Do you have the latest revision coils installed?

[Molotov]

Used injectors? The misfires didn't follow the coilpacks? When was the last spark plug change?

[PRY4SNO]

Went for a reflash, back to stage one, and that didn't solve the issue.

So tuners initial prognosis is either a clogged oil filter / bad oil pressure regulator. Or, a bad valve guide. But the heads were redone 80k km ago, they should be fine.

It's just kind of weird that I drove in just fine, and even though everything is back the way it was before I can't get into the boost without random multiple misfires.

So I think for now I'll put in a new oil filter and get a compression test.

[CyberPMG]

Check the ignition coils. Swap them around and see if the misfire code follows. Are the injectors new? If used, were they properly cleaned before install? When was the last time the spark plugs were changed? I would check on these 3 items first. I'm guessing if you have used injectors, the injectors may be at fault. They could be clogged with carbon deposits which would block fuel flow and cause misfires.

[PRY4SNO]

Check the ignition coils. Swap them around and see if the misfire code follows. Are the injectors new? If used, were they properly cleaned before install? When was the last time the spark plugs were changed? I would check on these 3 items first. I'm guessing if you have used injectors, the injectors may be at fault. They could be clogged with carbon deposits which would block fuel flow and cause misfires.

Well I'm leaning toward injector failure. Still being looked at so I'll post up more later.

FTR, yes the coils (rev.D) are newer and were swapped all around. Plugs are older but were fine on last inspection. Tuner is leaning toward a compression issue related to the oil pressure regulator or the valve guides.

[MmmBoost]

Well I'm leaning toward injector failure. Still being looked at so I'll post up more later.

FTR, yes the coils (rev.D) are newer and were swapped all around. Plugs are older but were fine on last inspection. Tuner is leaning toward a compression issue related to the oil pressure regulator or the valve guides.

What shop did you go to that was telling you it was an oiling issue???

[A4SoftWalker]

I wouldn't do a thing till I had new spark plugs put in, or at least inspected the old ones.

[BASARAB]

When u got reflashed back to stage 1, did u put your old injectors in? Does the car throw any codes?

[r6init]

Unplug your upstream o2 sensor and see how it runs...If that does nothing...Unplug your MAF and see how it runs...

[A4SoftWalker]

^^^ I agree with the MAF being another possible failure point

[juttin3]

Apr 93 oct. Didn't misfire before flash. Only when revving high.

So your saying your running 1+ (meaning injector file?) without having the injectors in... with apr anything with a + after it is bigger injector file. stage 2 with apr is testpipe/high flow cat file. So if your trying to run an injector file with stock injectors I don't think your gonna get very far?

So your just getting random multiple misfire codes? Not exactly one cylinder or another? Not exactly sure how you'd diagnose coil packs without getting an exact cylinder down thats misfiring. Do you have the latest revision coils installed?

[PRY4SNO]

When u got reflashed back to stage 1, did u put your old injectors in? Does the car throw any codes?

Yes and yes.

Same same.

[PRY4SNO]

Unplug your upstream o2 sensor and see how it runs...If that does nothing...Unplug your MAF and see how it runs...

Already tried the MAF. Same deal. Shiny new DTC for my collection. Might look into O2 sensor, could it be testpipe related?

[PRY4SNO]

What shop did you go to that was telling you it was an oiling issue???

Fair question but I want to know why, and why?

Should I focus on something non oil pressure related?

[PRY4SNO]

^^^ FTR

Back to square one. This time on the hwy merge ramp. Sweet!

[PRY4SNO]

18010/p1602
16684/p0300
16486/p0102
17544/p1136

[BASARAB]

Well its gotta be your MAF. Instead of just unplugging it, borrow one from someone and test it out.

[PRY4SNO]

It's newer, within the last 30k km I know they go but that frequently?

[lave3k]

So they opened the hood swapped the injectors and then you had a problem, nothing else mechanical was touched when you went to the + file, and then back
to the original?

Were the injector seals replaced? Even if they were, you might want to look into that since they were the only thing originally disturbed, and then swapped back a second time, that's a great place to introduce boost/vac leaks, causing MAF errors and lean codes.

[PRY4SNO]

Fawk.

Tried again in morning with new oil filter and my spare coils. Needed a boost cause the hazards drained the battery overnight.

Got her going, multiple misfires and some shaking, decided to back car off merge ramp... Voilà! Settles back down to normal, so I just kept going.

Hills. Doesn't like hills, sends the car into convulsions.

Then I just started losing power, had to pull over again. Was just idling and the car powered out. Though she cranked over quickly, a new noise like a tapping hammer from the valvetrain began so I shut her down and have been sitting since.

Ideas? Diagnosticator, old guy?

[CyberPMG]

Sounds like the car is getting worse. Stop driving it around and take it to a shop immediately. It's possible the tuning shop damaged the injectors during the install (and when putting the original injectors back in). For everything else, it's time to stop playing armchair quarterback, and let a professional run tests to diagnose the issue. Again, I would advise to stop driving it any more as it seems to be causing additional damage.

[PRY4SNO]

Sounds like the car is getting worse. Stop driving it around and take it to a shop immediately. It's possible the tuning shop damaged the injectors during the install (and when putting the original injectors back in). For everything else, it's time to stop playing armchair quarterback, and let a professional run tests to diagnose the issue. Again, I would advise to stop driving it any more as it seems to be causing additional damage.

Werd. Holiday weekends suck as a time to break down.

Was towed after my last post, as my poor car completely cratered on my way north. As per instructions from last shop that the car, "would be fine, it'll reset itself like it has been doing."



So, as per initial diagnosis... I'm looking at either bent valve guides or stuck hydro lifter(s). What's my gameplan, as in... obviously I'm not replacing stock internals with stock parts (well, except lifters) so what's worth the cash "while I'm in there..." For the record, I'm not sure if I'll let the guy whose shop the car sits at now work on it pending his estimate. I may just hike up to Edmonton and drive back here to Red Deer with the Cummins and tow the A4 back home to work on it personally. Drive the CQ while it's down.

I don't want a quickie job to get me back on the road and out the door, per se, but rather a bulletproof solution so I need not worry about taking long roadtrips with people. Like going to the mountains snowboarding in the winter, etc.

[PRY4SNO]

So now has been the first chance I've had to get to this with my netbook so here are some logs and DTCs sorry for the delay.

Here's the first log I was able to do with the Unitronic stage 2 file and TT225 injectors. As soon as I hit the boost, everything went awry. At that point I didn't know if I was going to manage to pull over:
clicky

DTCs from when I broke down after leaving the shop with a 1+ file and my (known to be good) stock injectors:
clicky

Tried unplugging the MAF, seemed better for a bit, but ultimately resulted in another breakdown (back to stage 1):
clicky

Last log, as less than 60 seconds before she cratered:
clicky

I have more but they're basically the same thing. Random multiple misfires.

Known positives:
Good compression when it was idling/running as normal, 130s across the board.
New battery, MAF, fuel pump, fuel filter, oil filter.
Good stock injectors, coil packs, spark plugs.
Solid original stage 1 tune.

Known negatives:
No compression while it was misfiring after retune(s)
Dropping fuel line pressure on cold start ups
Car's engine is out of commission due to: excessive valvetrain noise, RMM

Variable factors:
Fuel pump: does it have a check valve? Gut says no.
Injectors (TT225): do they flow equally? Gut says no.
Valvetrain assembly: did the Audi dealership in PA do their job properly? Gut says no.

But.

I won't know anything until my 3rd party mechanic has a look at it and tells me what he sees once the heads are off for inspection.

[CyberPMG]

You logs look similar to the problems I had with my Unitronic Stage 3+ setup. My solution was to fix several large vacuum leaks. Check the PCV, PRV, crankcase breather tube, jet suction pump, and related check valves and vacuum lines.

[lave3k]

X2 on the vacuum leak....In your first log you can see that you almost hit the requested boost once, and then the second time not even close.
I still think you should look at the injector seals as they were the only component originally touched, your other option is a line or hose that let go.
It's pretty easy to get paranoid about the valve train, but you didn't change anything relating to it.

[PRY4SNO]

Verdict is in.

My independent third-party mechanic, also the go-to 1.8t tuner in my region, didn't even need to look inside. Just turning it over was enough to tell the bottom end knocks and the pistons are slapping the heads.

Basically, the mechanic who tuned it knew it was running lean (I remember him mentioning as such, but was too flustered to take note) but convinced me, "it would sort itself out." And not far away (<100km) my engine predetonated and cratered.

[/thread]

(build research & subsequent thread ensues...)

[CyberPMG]

Better get the tuner to pay for the new engine.

[PRY4SNO]

Better get the tuner to pay for the new engine.

Say the injectors I supplied were at fault?

[diagnosticator]

As a matter of clarity, the term "Predetonation" has practically no meaning. Drop the prefix. If your engine actually experienced detonation, it often sounds like breaking glass, and potentially only takes a few power strokes per cylinder, to destroy the engine when it happens in the worst case.

[PRY4SNO]

As a matter of clarity, the term "Predetonation" has practically no meaning. Drop the prefix. If your engine actually experienced detonation, it often sounds like breaking glass, and potentially only takes a few power strokes per cylinder, to destroy the engine when it happens in the worst case.

Thanks John, I prefer to use the proper terms to eliminate confused communication.

Care to offer a guess as to the cause of the errant bolt in my combustion chamber?

Here's what I found after opening up the motor to see what was the culprit.

[Audimation]

Looks like an injector rail bolt dropped in and made its way past the valve.I'd say installer is at fault my guess especially if it happened that day.Check the rail bolts and see if they all look the same or if one is diffrent.
I do like the response it'll work it's way out..Obviously it did'nt make it past the exhaust side.

[liberty603]

so sorry to see this happen to you man. its plain fucked up! if i was you i would be on my way to jail right now

[BryanR]

Looks like an injector rail bolt dropped in and made its way past the valve.I'd say installer is at fault my guess especially if it happened that day.Check the rail bolts and see if they all look the same or if one is diffrent.
I do like the response it'll work it's way out..Obviously it did'nt make it past the exhaust side.

Injector rail bolt should be a 5mm hex. Tough to gauge size from pics, but possible ground bolt for the coilpack harness...?

[takenotes]

thats terrible

[Audimation]

So what was the outcome? Inquiring minds want to know.

[daghstdrummer]

Thanks John, I prefer to use the proper terms to eliminate confused communication.

Care to offer a guess as to the cause of the errant bolt in my combustion chamber?

Here's what I found after opening up the motor to see what was the culprit.

HOLY HELL I'd go back to the installer of the injectors and F him up.. he better pay for your new motor