HPFP

[greensto]

Can anyone help me compare the AWE and APR HPFP upgrades? The AWE is a lot cheaper. Is the performance gain the same?

[makav3li]

the performance is the same...apr is always expensive, its good quality and a great company but deff more expensive. Make sure your not buying the internal DIY pump rebuild kit rather than buying the whole pump itself. I know theres both of those floating around.

[event]

There's some decent info in the link below:

http://www.audizine.com/forum/showth...otech-compared!)

I'm probably just going to buy a new revision pump ($300ish) because I have an F rev now, then get the KMD kit ($299) and do the build myself. The APR rebuild is going to be over 600 depending on sales and it will be utilizing my "known for issues" fuel pump.

I'm not completely sure if I'm going in the right direction because I'm not clear about how much APR tests and rebuilds the received pumps and whether having an older rev pump is a detriment.

Maybe APR can chime in and convince me to get a rebuild through them.

[jimrobbington]

There's some decent info in the link below:

http://www.audizine.com/forum/showth...otech-compared!)

I'm probably just going to buy a new revision pump ($300ish) because I have an F rev now, then get the KMD kit ($299) and do the build myself. The APR rebuild is going to be over 600 depending on sales and it will be utilizing my "known for issues" fuel pump.

I'm not completely sure if I'm going in the right direction because I'm not clear about how much APR tests and rebuilds the received pumps and whether having an older rev pump is a detriment.

Maybe APR can chime in and convince me to get a rebuild through them.

Yeah, I would hate to buy from them expecting an exchange refund, then find out that the old pump I send them back is not acceptable, and be out 1000 bucks

[jmars]

Event, why are you chosing KMD over the AWE? I've been planning on the AWE upgrade for about 6 months. Are you planning on using the KMD cam follower or the stocker? I believe then KMD is hard but I'm not sure I want anything harder hitting that cam.

Had my cam, follower and HPFP replaced at 42K (last Feb).....now at 49K.....time to take a peek inside. I removed the HPFP before they replaced my cam, not to hard.

Back on topic for the OP though..........my vote is the AWE rebuild kit provided you have the newer HPFP.

[AWDTURBO]

KMD is crap i had 3 yes 3 of their fuel pumps because they kept seizing .. do not buy!!!

[greensto]

Back on topic for the OP though..........my vote is the AWE rebuild kit provided you have the newer HPFP.

I have a 2005.5, so I believe I do not have the newer HPFP...

KMD is crap i had 3 yes 3 of their fuel pumps because they kept seizing .. do not buy!!!

Good to know because I was leaning towards them. However, they do currently offer a 2.1 Version that "adds a longer pressure end of the pump shaft." Not sure if that would fix the issues you experienced at all.

[elwigglero]

Got the new APR pump because it's pre-tested and I wanted the peace of mind. Pay to play as they say.

[bmc333]

Got the new APR pump because it's pre-tested and I wanted the peace of mind. Pay to play as they say.

x2^

[greensto]

Got the new APR pump because it's pre-tested and I wanted the peace of mind. Pay to play as they say.

Just called up my local APR dealer. It comes out to be $725 installed ($550 SALE PRICE+$50 shipping the hpfps+$125 install) with a $300 down payment for my own hpfp ($1025 upfront). If my hpfp meets their standards, then I get the $300 back. If not, it costs $1025...

[event]

Event, why are you chosing KMD over the AWE? Are you planning on using the KMD cam follower or the stocker?

I will get the AWE one is it is available when I'm ready to get the upgrade, but they have been on backorder and will be indefinitely from what I gather. I will stick with the stock follower, Audi hasn't made any revisions to it so I'm pretty sure all the failure is pump specific.

KMD is crap i had 3 yes 3 of their fuel pumps because they kept seizing .. do not buy!!!

Seizing was likely due to your pump revision, or has your pump not seized since getting a different kit? If you changed pumps then you got the latest revision and that was why it didn't seize anymore but if not how long ago was this, and did you get it directly from them?

I ask because they have revised their kit and I've seen over 20 pages of people running the KMD upgrade on high hp VW's without issue, there have also been knock-offs floating around on other sites, they note it on their site too.

Just called up my local APR dealer. It comes out to be $725 installed ($550 SALE PRICE+$50 shipping the hpfps+$125 install) with a $300 down payment for my own hpfp ($1025 upfront). If my hpfp meets their standards, then I get the $300 back. If not, it costs $1025...

I do all my own installs, but that's robbery... APR has some inflated prices on their hardware. I mean just look at their exhaust, it's sourced from Billy Boat and re-badged, you can get it from other places for like $800. You can say R&D this and that, but the description on the exhaust is a bit falsified and makes me question their other products.

I have a 2005.5, so I believe I do not have the newer HPFP...

Look at the pumps plug (black one), the letter at the end of the model number is the revision. I believe J is the newest and H is acceptable. There is no I because it's hard to discern when doing rev letters, so H skips to J.

[snackbarber]

I had bad luck with the AWE. I didn't get a new pump to have rebuilt. This was probably a mistake on my part. The shop I took it to is a good shop and they know their way around Audis. However after a couple thousand miles I had white smoke out the exhaust and fuel being dumped into the head. I could smell gas in the oil and my catch can was full of gas. Had the APR pump put in and haven't had issues since(knock on wood). If you do go with the AWE make sure to get a brand new pump to have the internals put into. Or just save up for the APR and have the peace of mind that it was upgraded and tested.

[AWDTURBO]

i had a 2008 pump and the newest revision and it still seized

[AWDTURBO]

they are about 15 mins from my house so i drove to the 3 times to get each pump until i gave up. The last time it was stuck so bad they took a torch to my damn fp to remove the insides .. not a product i want in my car.

im sorry KMD is crap stay away .. i have tried their camfollowrs also, and thats even more crap!

[event]

they are about 15 mins from my house so i drove to the 3 times to get each pump until i gave up. The last time it was stuck so bad they took a torch to my damn fp to remove the insides .. not a product i want in my car.

im sorry KMD is crap stay away .. i have tried their camfollowrs also, and thats even more crap!

Good to know, I will lean towards AWE then, but man they suck with the extensive backorders...

[bskis1080]

the option I believe I'm taking is to order a brand new pump from europaparts for like 280 with free shipping. From there I'm going to send that one to APR for a rebuild to save about 200 off a brand new pump from them. I just want to have the peace of mind and keep my old pump as I'm still on extended warranty and if I ever have cam problems I can just pop the old one in and claim ignorance.

[italia8287]

KMD is crap i had 3 yes 3 of their fuel pumps because they kept seizing .. do not buy!!!

i will second this, they suck! there pump messed up my car and they wouldn't even take care of it for me. i had to take it to audi, luckily i have some connections :D

[Arin@APR]

The APR High pressure fuel pump is the ONLY pump on the market which is fully tested after being built so disaster strikes on our test machine and not your engine. We even go as far as to replace the seals inside the pump so you don't leak fuel into your oil and destroy your engine. Also, since we fully test the pumps before they are built we often find some pumps are simply damaged so w/o us testing the pump, you would be 'upgrading' an already damaged pump. The primary item that gets damaged is the solenoid at the top of the pump. We replace the spring with a spring equally matched to the new weight of the piston to prevent float. We also retain the rocking head on the fuel pump just like the OEM. Lastly we do not use a stepped piston which can promote side loading. So, you can gamble with cheaper pumps but the consequences can be engine damage or wasting money.


Also, for what it's worth, the APR HPFP powers all of the following:

APR Motorsport GTI's
VW Motorsport Sciroccos in Germany
SEAT Motorsport Sport Super Copa Cupras in Europe
VWoA Factory Show cars

The Highest HP 2.0T FSI in the world
The Fastest 1/4th 2.0T FSI in the world
The Quickest 1/4th 2.0T FSI int the world

Simply put, the APR HPFP costs more money than any other pump on the market because it uses higher quality components, replaces more components, is rebuilt in house, and fully tested in house. More goes into it, it cost more and you get more in the end.

[ringmaster2.0]

The APR High pressure fuel pump is the ONLY pump on the market which is fully tested after being built so disaster strikes on our test machine and not your engine. We even go as far as to replace the seals inside the pump so you don't leak fuel into your oil and destroy your engine. Also, since we fully test the pumps before they are built we often find some pumps are simply damaged so w/o us testing the pump, you would be 'upgrading' an already damaged pump. The primary item that gets damaged is the solenoid at the top of the pump. We replace the spring with a spring equally matched to the new weight of the piston to prevent float. We also retain the rocking head on the fuel pump just like the OEM. Lastly we do not use a stepped piston which can promote side loading. So, you can gamble with cheaper pumps but the consequences can be engine damage or wasting money.


Also, for what it's worth, the APR HPFP powers all of the following:

APR Motorsport GTI's
VW Motorsport Sciroccos in Germany
SEAT Motorsport Sport Super Copa Cupras in Europe
VWoA Factory Show cars

The Highest HP 2.0T FSI in the world
The Fastest 1/4th 2.0T FSI in the world
The Quickest 1/4th 2.0T FSI int the world

Simply put, the APR HPFP costs more money than any other pump on the market because it uses higher quality components, replaces more components, is rebuilt in house, and fully tested in house. More goes into it, it cost more and you get more in the end.

Great info thanks Arin

[makav3li]

hmm after reading that, i may have to pay the extra money on a good pump. Its one thing to go cheap on a test pipe or exhaust but a fuel pump, theres alot that goes into something like that and it is very vital to your vehicles operation. Now what are the prices on APR's pump again? Was the prices above accurate?

[Arin@APR]

On sale, a rebuild is $551.65

[crazytex21]

getting it done at the BBQ this weekend. i have an hour and a half drive home to test it out and i will make a post on here to tell you what i think on sunday.

[deeznuts]

nobody said anything about the AWE rebuild kit...i have the revised pump and would do the DIY rebuild myself...any pros and cons about this? i cant justify to spend 700+ on a fuel pump if theres an option to do it myself...i am even considering spending the extra money for the APR rebuild, but not if its the same as AWE.

[makav3li]

I'm also interested in doing the rebuild kit myself. I'm always excited to do some major modification myself just to know its done correctly or atleast know what all was done, so if something does go wrong, I'll have a better idea of what may have went wrong.

[greensto]

So the AWE rebuild kit is $400 and the APR is $600 (assuming you install both yourself). I would think APR's tested pump with the replaced spring in addition to the knowledge that your pump is not damaged is worth the $200 difference.

[crazytex21]

WOW! i just got back from the APR BBQ and i decided to go stg 2+ while i was there. that new HPFP with the programming is amazing. pulls like a son of a bitch. i may have just become an APR fanboy... haha.

[rkesh88]

On ecs tuning the HPFP they have listed from the vw/audi has a mfg # as 06F127025K, would that mean that K is the latest revision? Also Europa parts has the revision K too, so idk what is different from the 'J' stated above and the 'K'

[event]

On ecs tuning the HPFP they have listed from the vw/audi has a mfg # as 06F127025K, would that mean that K is the latest revision? Also Europa parts has the revision K too, so idk what is different from the 'J' stated above and the 'K'

Logically K would be the newest revision, as revisions generally start from - (new), then go to A, B and so on. There are alt revisions like A1 but those generally only apply to modules, not assemblies or detail parts.

[vdubjetta02]

i spent my HPFP money on my wheels and tires.... HPFP will come next spring

[crazytex21]

i spent my HPFP money on my wheels and tires.... HPFP will come next spring

it's definitely worth it vdub. power from anywhere. it's great

[greensto]

Is cam follower wear a lot worse with the aftermarket HPFP since we have no solution to the pump striking the weak cam follower. A HPFP that is working and hitting the cam follower harder would seem to cause a lot of wear/replacement...

[crazytex21]

Is cam follower wear a lot worse with the aftermarket HPFP since we have no solution to the pump striking the weak cam follower. A HPFP that is working and hitting the cam follower harder would seem to cause a lot of wear/replacement...

i heard an interesting opinion on this subject over the weekend while i was at APR. one the the techs said he has yet to see excessive wear on the cam follower with engines that are using high quality oils like motul or others. he said he has had some cars in there that have never had their follower changed and they were still in great shape after years of driving.something to think about. he told me to use motul 8100.

[B72.0T]

i heard an interesting opinion on this subject over the weekend while i was at APR. one the the techs said he has yet to see excessive wear on the cam follower with engines that are using high quality oils like motul or others. he said he has had some cars in there that have never had their follower changed and they were still in great shape after years of driving.something to think about. he told me to use motul 8100.

Interesting... Which one specifically did he say to use? The X-Clean or the X-cess? They're both 5W-40...

http://www.intakeone.com/denso/Motul8100.html

[crazytex21]

he didn't specify, but he showed me a 5 quart jug and i want to say it was the x-cess. but truly, i am not sure if that matters.

[B72.0T]

On my next oil change I will purchase it then, along with a K&N oil filter.

[Sprode]

I had bad luck with the AWE. I didn't get a new pump to have rebuilt. This was probably a mistake on my part. The shop I took it to is a good shop and they know their way around Audis. However after a couple thousand miles I had white smoke out the exhaust and fuel being dumped into the head. I could smell gas in the oil and my catch can was full of gas. Had the APR pump put in and haven't had issues since(knock on wood). If you do go with the AWE make sure to get a brand new pump to have the internals put into. Or just save up for the APR and have the peace of mind that it was upgraded and tested.

How is that caused by a fuel pump? That sounds like a BHG to me.

[greensto]

i heard an interesting opinion on this subject over the weekend while i was at APR. one the the techs said he has yet to see excessive wear on the cam follower with engines that are using high quality oils like motul or others. he said he has had some cars in there that have never had their follower changed and they were still in great shape after years of driving.something to think about. he told me to use motul 8100.

Sounds like a guy trying to sell you an APR pump and make you not worry about purchasing the $600 product... I'm still very wary. Replacing the cam follower frequently will add up over time (after spending $500+ on the HPFP itself).

[crazytex21]

Sounds like a guy trying to sell you an APR pump and make you not worry about purchasing the $600 product... I'm still very wary. Replacing the cam follower frequently will add up over time (after spending $500+ on the HPFP itself).

actually, no, he wasn't trying to sell me, the pump had already been bought and rebuilt. after he changed my cam follower for me, he told me about the oil. you can be skeptical, but being skeptical has never gotten much accomplished. if you are that worried about it, stay at stg 2.

[greensto]

actually, no, he wasn't trying to sell me, the pump had already been bought and rebuilt. after he changed my cam follower for me, he told me about the oil. you can be skeptical, but being skeptical has never gotten much accomplished. if you are that worried about it, stay at stg 2.

Never gotten much accomplished? We aren't talking about changing the world for the better here. All I'm saying is that, if we have a bad design for the cam follower and no solution has been shown to correct this, then why jump into something (and spend money) when there is no proof that Motul 8100 actually helps. It is only 1 person's opinion you have to go by when there are many knowledgeable people on this site who can share their experience about this. THEN I would feel more comfortable spending that kind of money. So...if you have APR's HPFP, can you please chime in on your experience with cam follower wear. It would be much appreciated.

[event]

I PM'd the dude that wrote the KDM comparison link I posted above and he has been going strong for over a year now, interesting.