IAT Comparison between Aquamist HFS6 and VAST W/M

[AudiSportB5S4]

I've been dying to do a comparison between my setup and other setups, especially Aquamist on AWE intercoolers such as I have.

Well, here are the results...

Aquamist


VAST


You can see how much stronger the Aquamist setup is... This isn't a 1:1 match up as well, because the Aquamist car has RS6 turbos on it and I have RS4s, so there is more CFM from those turbos over mine. I have seen glory runs with mine where I'll see a -5,-10*F dip, but this was back to back on the Aquamist with -20!

You can sum it up by $1,000>$375

[J-b5]

What I see is that the VAST setup works as good or better than the more expensive aquamist setup.

[M.S4]

Sold my vast kit and went to HFS-3

Love it, it's much better put together for an extra ~$200.

[AudiSportB5S4]

What I see is that the VAST setup works as good or better than the more expensive aquamist setup.

No, disregard beginning IAT. Look at the delta. My run was in October (VAST setup) and the Aquamist was done last weekend in 70ish*F weather.

Sold my vast kit and went to HFS-3

Love it, it's much better put together for an extra ~$200.

Yeah, I mean to be honest I've had my kit for 1.5 years now, and it's still doing a great job for me. I tossed this out there because not many people back any of their claims up with any proof, so here is some proof. I respect good products. For the price, if you're on a K04 car, I don't see the need for much more than the VAST kit. If you're running >RS4 K04s, I'd say it makes a good difference. Even on my car this kit would obviously help, but I wouldn't take my tune much more aggressive, I've never had a single issue to date.

[BJ Thomas]

good info. both are good systems. for the difference in price I will go with the Vast system and spend the other $625 on strippers and cocaine :)

[J-b5]

Again. I see nothing impressive about it. The differences are minor and the setups are running very different turbos with different compressor maps.

So, this comparison proves nothing either way.

[AudiSportB5S4]

good info. both are good systems. for the difference in price I will go with the Vast system and spend the other $625 on strippers and cocaine :)

Well I'd spend it on only strippers, but I hear you.. haha

Again. I see nothing impressive about it.

Fixed for you ;)... I throw data out there when I get it... I found it interesting the delta difference between the setups. I think it's a fairly good comparison to be made.. Not knocking the VAST kit, I freakin sell the thing! Two things can be taken from this, you can say wow the VAST kit does a great job for the price point, or you can ride the high Aquamist horse and say look at the temperature difference!

[TighTT]

I currently run the VAST setup but between a pump going bad and countless lines popping off due to the cheesy connectors used....Im dumping it for an Aquamist kit. If youre running a regular tune and adding meth to it....IMO VAST is fine. But if youre tuned for the meth....I wouldnt trust it.

[M.S4]

I currently run the VAST setup but between a pump going bad and countless lines popping off due to the cheesy connectors used....Im dumping it for an Aquamist kit. If youre running a regular tune and adding meth to it....IMO VAST is fine. But if youre tuned for the meth....I wouldnt trust it.

This^

It's always nice knowing there are a few failsafes in there.

Also nice if I am running low and don't mind putting around on wastegate pressure.

[AudiSportB5S4]

TighTT - In regards to that, I'm not sure what to say because the volume of customers with VASTs kit greatly outweighs Aquamist in this platform I think... If there were more occurrences like this, there would be loud outcries all over the place. In one group buy, close to FORTY kits were sold! I'm going to test my system and see if I have leaks out of those connectors but I haven't had a problem I'm just trying to be proactive.

I like the gauge with the Aquamist setup (<3 lights), but I've heard from a good source that those flow meters aren't as accurate as owners would like to believe since a good flow meter is pretty expensive in itself. The failsafe is a nice feature of the Aquamist especially with a big strong setup requiring the methanol as you stated.

[FlyboyS4]

You can see how much stronger the Aquamist setup is...

You can sum it up by $1,000>$375

You've stated the data is from a car using very different turbo's between data samples. That's a big change. Presumably it also means the data wasn't acquired under the same environmental conditions, and probably the other intake components weren't in the same state of heatsoak. A single data point for each case is going to open up lots of opportunities for errors. Get multiple runs with the same car setup and then you may be able to get some idea of a performance difference between the two WI systems. From those two snapshots I don't think you can draw any conclusion about the WI systems. It would also be helpful to see a baseline run without WI.

[J-b5]

and frankly the stock safeties with the vast meth/tune are more than adequate to protect the car should the system fail.

[sektor M7]

and frankly the stock safeties with the vast meth/tune are more than adequate to protect the car should the system fail.

Not true......anyway , you only can lead the horse to the water but cannot make it drink.....

[wdbdy2000s4]

TighTT - In regards to that, I'm not sure what to say because the volume of customers with VASTs kit greatly outweighs Aquamist in this platform I think... If there were more occurrences like this, there would be loud outcries all over the place. In one group buy, close to FORTY kits were sold! I'm going to test my system and see if I have leaks out of those connectors but I haven't had a problem I'm just trying to be proactive.

I've heard of a pump failing and Ben had a bad controller on his VAST kit. They did replace them for free though so hats off to the customer service. I think you're right that VAST definately makes a noticeable difference and it's a great price. I've seen CFs go from 9 to 0 across the board with just the addition of meth. a few degrees of timing and it was running .5 seconds faster FATS consistently.

The aquamist kit is a new level though, but it's significantly more money. RS6s being pushed hard run just as hot as k04s. Given that we don't know specifics on the setups, I have never seen a -25 delta with any other kit.

[wdbdy2000s4]

A single data point for each case is going to open up lots of opportunities for errors.

He stated that the aquamist kit did this consistently on back to back pulls. As he also stated, his car has never done this. I've seen him post plenty of logs and can verify his meth kit doesn't lower IATs like this in any conditions(given they are different turbos). Furthermore, he sells the VAST kit so he would have no reason to lie about any of this.


Thanks for sharing your opinion Mike. I never see any advertisers or retailer/resellers talk about a competitors products so openly. Usually everyone has an agenda to hawk their own shit. lol

[fatezero]

To be honest, SNOW is the best of both worlds. They have high end metal connectors now, a great pump, a great controller, and you can get a complete kit for around $450.

I have run all three kits and I have an HFS-3 in my Tial car now, but if are on a budget the SNOW kit gets my vote

[bigern45]

hats off mike, i know im running 26 psi up top on my RS6's, and regarding that and the fact that 22psi from an RS6 is more than 22psi from a k04, i see your point and it is good information, the aquamist definitely is pulling its weight. and as regards the VAST/devils own kit, i had been noticing signs of leakage, (white meth marks at some junctions) and even though my a/f has not shown it to be a major problem, it still leaves some desire for higher quality. ive changed 3 junctions/fittings to date, and i have to change 2 more. i was checking on an injector leak (external) and i forgot that when you turn the key on, and the boost sensor is unplugged that the system will just dump meth/water. so as im checking for another leak, i see 2 more meth connection leaks. i have some from devils own coming, and i do note their quality of build is much better than what came in the VAST kit.

im saving up for the ARD bipipes and an Aquamist kit, so i can get Tony to tune just a little more aggressively.. do it all at once...

[Tony@EPL]

Unless the car will be used in a heavy track environment, the hsf 3 enough for most people... and keep in mind but the time you add an eternal fail safe and flow gauge (standard on the HSF3), you end up spending MORE money on lesser systems.

[americanthunder]

hats off mike, i know im running 26 psi up top on my RS6's, and regarding that and the fact that 22psi from an RS6 is more than 22psi from a k04, i see your point and it is good information, the aquamist definitely is pulling its weight. and as regards the VAST/devils own kit, i had been noticing signs of leakage, (white meth marks at some junctions) and even though my a/f has not shown it to be a major problem, it still leaves some desire for higher quality. ive changed 3 junctions/fittings to date, and i have to change 2 more. i was checking on an injector leak (external) and i forgot that when you turn the key on, and the boost sensor is unplugged that the system will just dump meth/water. so as im checking for another leak, i see 2 more meth connection leaks. i have some from devils own coming, and i do note their quality of build is much better than what came in the VAST kit.

im saving up for the ARD bipipes and an Aquamist kit, so i can get Tony to tune just a little more aggressively.. do it all at once...

+1 had the Vast kit, sold it before I installed it for an HFS-3. If $ isn't an issue there is no contest, aquamist kits are VERY complete and if your running aggressively the extra fail safes are a must.

[ubermidget]

Have the hfs6 on my current car, feels more consistent then my old rs6 car that just had a fmic

+1 aquamist

[Danza]

Just wanted to clarify something,

Is EPL an aquamist dealer or just strong proponent?

Is everyone getting their setups through Howerton or if the above is answered in teh affirmative, EPL?

Is there a significant difference in price or customer support?

[NOTORIOUS VR]

Again. I see nothing impressive about it. The differences are minor and the setups are running very different turbos with different compressor maps.

So, this comparison proves nothing either way.

This and the logs were done on different days, that's enough to skew results.

[FrnkWhte]

Tony@EPL does sell the kit.. They installed a HFS-3 on my Tial car and tuned it right after. No leaks and the system has been running strong from day one.

[bigern45]

Just wanted to clarify something,

Is EPL an aquamist dealer or just strong proponent?

Is everyone getting their setups through Howerton or if the above is answered in teh affirmative, EPL?

Is there a significant difference in price or customer support?

idk if they sell it or not, tony never once offered to sell me one, he sent me some links on where i could find them. its a strong proponent, for sure. with all us "ricers" out here, leave it too a kid to take a strong tuned car and run it low on meth or even worse, tweak the file even more aggressively, and when something goes wrong, then they go and say VAST's tune ef'd my car up, or EPL's tune screwed me.. ya never know..

[wdbdy2000s4]

This and the logs were done on different days, that's enough to skew results.

Have you ever seen a VAST kit with deltas anywhere near -25*? I highly doubt it.

The different turbos are more likely the culprit then the atmospheric temp, but neither will account for over 15% difference in delta from between the kits.

[Bimmerchop]

I need to get me an aquamist kit, screw winter winter wheels/tires!

[TighTT]

TighTT - In regards to that, I'm not sure what to say because the volume of customers with VASTs kit greatly outweighs Aquamist in this platform I think... If there were more occurrences like this, there would be loud outcries all over the place. In one group buy, close to FORTY kits were sold! I'm going to test my system and see if I have leaks out of those connectors but I haven't had a problem I'm just trying to be proactive.

I've spoken to numerous members of the community in person who have had similar issues with their VAST kits. Im not saying its a bad kit....just saying that if you're running a high strung tune....you should consider all the options out there.

I was running my kit for almost a week with NO METH spraying....even through the stupid control box said that it WAS spraying. A bad pump was to blame. Point is, had I not checked my meth tank levels (they haddnt dropped at all)....I never would have kown the pump crapped out. Im lucky that nothing went boom in my engine.

[AudiSportB5S4]

Update -

I'm going to switch my nozzles to slightly bigger ones and see the difference. The HFS6 kit's nozzles are a good deal larger than what I'm using, so we'll see how my kit compensates. I'm guessing I'll get slightly better IAT results, and maybe some better timing.

Will update once that's all done sometime next week.

[bigern45]

IIRC, the kit from VAST for my RS6's came with 2 #5's, i think youll need a #7 and a #10 to equal what the HFS6 kit puts out at 100% flow.


and you all remember my IAT issues, so im sure itll make a hell of a lot of difference just switching that mike....

[J-b5]

Have you ever seen a VAST kit with deltas anywhere near -25*? I highly doubt it.

The different turbos are more likely the culprit then the atmospheric temp, but neither will account for over 15% difference in delta from between the kits.

I have on my own car. I have the logs somewhere.

[AudiSportB5S4]

and you all remember my IAT issues, so im sure itll make a hell of a lot of difference just switching that mike....

Yeah I'm going with two #7s :) haha... I still have some VP M1 left from my 5 gallon drum bought last November!! I barely go through the stuff! Sooo, I figure why not... I drive like sweet old Granny 98% of the time.

[NOTORIOUS VR]

Have you ever seen a VAST kit with deltas anywhere near -25*? I highly doubt it.

The different turbos are more likely the culprit then the atmospheric temp, but neither will account for over 15% difference in delta from between the kits.

I bet you the VAST kit would have faired similar if everything was the same. ie. starting temps, compressor efficiency of the turbos, nozzle size, meth/water mix, etc, etc.

Honestly, these logs shouldn't have been posted because it will just confuse people and it is NOT a true direct comparison between the two kits.

The only way to compare kits is install both on the same car and do back to back pulls/logs. That's it. It's the same thing with people who post logs from SMIC & FMIC's... and then somehow say one is better then another.

Yet they're all from different cars, at different times, running different setups (tunes, boost levels, etc) all which greatly effect the outcome.

[julex]

I bet you the VAST kit would have faired similar if everything was the same. ie. starting temps, compressor efficiency of the turbos, nozzle size, meth/water mix, etc, etc.

Honestly, these logs shouldn't have been posted because it will just confuse people and it is NOT a true direct comparison between the two kits.

The only way to compare kits is install both on the same car and do back to back pulls/logs. That's it. It's the same thing with people who post logs from SMIC & FMIC's... and then somehow say one is better then another.

Yet they're all from different cars, at different times, running different setups (tunes, boost levels, etc) all which greatly effect the outcome.

I typed essentially the same in before I noticed your post :)

To add to it. Not enough that we have two different cars, different turbos, tunes, weather, we also have unknown nozzle size on the other "inferior" VAST set up and the nozzle size would be the only factor that would matter the most in this comparison! And let's not forget that we also don't have, in most likeliness, the same water/meth ratio.

If the vast is running like #3 or #5 and OP has #7, of course the Aquamist will look "better" than Vast.

What is also not taken under consideration is the initial w/m fluid temperature. I run my W/M from windshield wiper reservoir and on hot days the tank gets real warm if you shut off the car and let it stand for few hours. Pouring in new fluid from cold container would significantly lower the W/M fluid temp and consequently IATs...

There are so many variables than any test other than back to back with two systems on the same car is not representative of systems performance.

[wdbdy2000s4]

I typed essentially the same in before I noticed your post :)

To add to it. Not enough that we have two different cars, different turbos, tunes, weather, we also have unknown nozzle size on the other "inferior" VAST set up and the nozzle size would be the only factor that would matter the most in this comparison! And let's not forget that we also don't have, in most likeliness, the same water/meth ratio.

If the vast is running like #3 or #5 and OP has #7, of course the Aquamist will look "better" than Vast.

What is also not taken under consideration is the initial w/m fluid temperature. I run my W/M from windshield wiper reservoir and on hot days the tank gets real warm if you shut off the car and let it stand for few hours. Pouring in new fluid from cold container would significantly lower the W/M fluid temp and consequently IATs...

There are so many variables than any test other than back to back with two systems on the same car is not representative of systems performance.

I completely agree that different setups will portray different results as I indicated earlier. However, I was under the impression that these were using the same nozzles and w/m ratio.

Either way, I'd like to see the -25* deltas from the VAST kit because I've never seen better than a -6* delta. I will be buying the Aquamist kit because IMO it's of higher quality and safer on the car. Even if you prove the VAST kit lowers deltas 75* I wouldn't risk a blown pumnp, broken controller and leaks like other users have experienced. If your kit is working well then I'm extremely happy for you and hope it continues to do so. Same goes for you J-B5 and any other VAST users.

[FlyboyS4]

Thanks to the last two posts (32 & 33) above pointing out more issues with the testing.

When it get's down to it all that is going on is a pump spraying a water/methanol mixture through a nozzle. Mixture, flow rate, amount of liquid dispersion, and maybe the liquid temp will impact the IAT reading. The flow rate and dispersion are the only two variables that are system dependent, and if you could interchange nozzles between systems you could probably make those two about equal.

Buy the kit that suits your needs based on failsafes, quality, and control factors. Configured equally I doubt there would be any difference in temperature drop.

*Edit* The aquamist data above is odd. If the sharp drop around 4100 rpm is indicative of the aquamist system turning on, why isn't the IAT dropping as the air velocity through the intake system increases, like on the VAST system run? Rising IAT at the beginning of a pull is very unusual.

[J-b5]

agreed.

You are paying for features, not performance here.

[Liva687]

I'm currently in the market for a Meth kit... I have had my eyes set on the HSF-3 and Snow's Stage 3 kit.. Although I've heard nothing but good things about Aquamist, I'm still considering Snow's... Has anyone had any experience with Snow's kit?? Does it come with a fail safe as well?

[gearhead1186]

I'm currently in the market for a Meth kit... I have had my eyes set on the HSF-3 and Snow's Stage 3 kit.. Although I've heard nothing but good things about Aquamist, I'm still considering Snow's... Has anyone had any experience with Snow's kit?? Does it come with a fail safe as well?

Snow doesnt come with a failsafe but you can purchase it separately. But then you also need to buy a wastegate solenoid and flow gauge. As tony said up top, at that point you will be into aquamist pricing so it really doesnt make much sense. aquamist really is the way to go if your serious.

[Liva687]

yea, then it seems like Aquamist is the way to go.. thanks

[flyingfish2626]

Currently switching over to Aquamist right now. My Vast meth will be for sale soon. Jeff at Howerton is great. Call him for the new HFS-3 system and dont look back. Very high quality kit.