BT Build, Cylinder head ?

[B5Beast]

Getting ready for a GT35 based engine build on a 2001 a4tqm. Installing bottom end stroker kit w/ forged crank, rods, pistons. Anyone have similiar type setup that would have any recommendations on building the cylinder head, ie: cams, valves, lifters, etc? Thanks in advance!

[nunya]

Its been discussed quite a few places. What are your goals? I would recommend at a minimum:

Large port head (AEB/ADR)
Large port intake manifold
Cams (Cat/Shrick)
High rate Springs and titanium retainers (Supertech/Ferrea)
New hydro lifters
Check the guides
Maybe some bowl blending and port/polish
Maybe some over sized valves or inconel exhaust valves

This should let you safely rev to ~8300

--dillon

[A4Rob]

Well said Dillon. Cams, springs, retainers.

[ricekikr]

Can stock valves handle ~8000rpm daily?

[A4DRIVR]

Can stock valves handle ~8000rpm daily?

No. They are sodium filled, and will cycle-to-failure very quick due to the increased stress...

[ricekikr]

Thanks for the info. :)

[terraflata]

Guides and seals also cost next to nothing, replace them while your at it. Oversized valves tend not to be worth the little amount of extra flow they will give you.

[v dub'n]

with my ported aeb head i'm running cat springs, stock lifters,inconel exhaust valves, cat 3652 cams aftermarket large port intake mani and have reved it to 8800rpm's plenty of times gonna try 9000rpm next.

[Poopie]

bare minimum you need exhaust valves.

[Sales@RAI]

with my ported aeb head i'm running cat springs, stock lifters,inconel exhaust valves, cat 3652 cams aftermarket large port intake mani and have reved it to 8800rpm's plenty of times gonna try 9000rpm next.

what turbo?

[v dub'n]

3586 hta with a .82 tial housing

[Sales@RAI]

Standalone? Any power numbers yet?

[v dub'n]

haltech sport 1000 ecu, car has'nt been on the dyno recently with new parts but it made 370awhp reving to 7000rpm @ 20 psi and 436 awhp with a spike to 28psi, that was with a stock tbody and intake. had some major issues with the cam sensor at 7000rpm it thought it was 14000rpm so the tune was very conservative only made 5 passes and a total of about 1 hour of tuning from scratch , and since we have sorted that out on the street. going back once i install my new labonte sm4 meth kit and we are gonna turn the sucker up to see what it can do with better intake mani and 80mm tbody before a winter rebuild to a 2.0L.

[Sales@RAI]

Sounds about right. Mustang dyno? I did 437@26lbs so were close but I have all the intake bells and whistles

[v dub'n]

Car was dynoed on a dynojet.

[ricekikr]

with my ported aeb head i'm running cat springs, stock lifters,inconel exhaust valves, cat 3652 cams aftermarket large port intake mani and have reved it to 8800rpm's plenty of times gonna try 9000rpm next.

How come the STOCK intake valves can take 8800rpm and not the exhaust valves?

So basically whats needed for stock AEB to rev 8000rpm SAFELY are:
1. rods
2. exhaust valves
3. valve springs
4. cams (to actually make power @ higher rpms)
5. tune

[A4DRIVR]

How come the STOCK intake valves can take 8800rpm and not the exhaust valves?

Using a best guess... The exhaust valves see more heat due to the increased cylinder pressures (higher boost levels), which affects the material grain structure and makes them weaker. Sort of like annealing steel, which makes it softer (more ductile).

Again this is just a guess...

[v dub'n]

stock valves are sodium filled and sodium filled valves dont like a lot of heat, also they tend to come apart at high rpm's.

[ricekikr]

So the intake valves aren't sodium filled?

Anyone use: Osvat exhaust valves on their high-rev engine? Its only $135 shipped for 8 exhaust valves. Add the $224.95 Eurospec exhaust valves and instant high rev capability head?

http://www.mjmautohaus.com/catalog/p...oducts_id=3164

[v dub'n]

Stock intakes are not sodium filled, and they work great and rev to 9000rpm. As for the osvat valves never heard of them. Im using supertech inconel exhaust valve's.

[spyder101]

stock valves are sodium filled and sodium filled valves dont like a lot of heat, also they tend to come apart at high rpm's.

yeah, they also don't like leaking sodium on skin...burns like a son-of-a-bitch!

[ricekikr]

I just checked. Supertechs just cost a lil bit more. $165 for the set at ECS.

Anyone know the cheapest valves prings that can do the job properly?

[terraflata]

I just checked. Supertechs just cost a lil bit more. $165 for the set at ECS.

Anyone know the cheapest valves prings that can do the job properly?

Cheap is never a good thing to shop for when talking about your head.....but Supertechs will prolly be your best bet.

[Dan[FN]6262]

just get a set of Supertech Single groove Inconel exhaust valves. Think of the extra $100 dollars as cheap insurance for your $500+ head

http://www.intengineering.com/18t-20...01881-1-2.html


pretty much everything you need is on that site. I am using the supertech spring kit w/ titanium retainers and single groove inconel exhaust valves and stock intake valves.

[nunya]

just get a set of Supertech Single groove Inconel exhaust valves. Think of the extra $100 dollars as cheap insurance for your $500+ head

http://www.intengineering.com/18t-20...01881-1-2.html


pretty much everything you need is on that site. I am using the supertech spring kit w/ titanium retainers and single groove inconel exhaust valves and stock intake valves.

+1

I wish mine was only $500, my machine work alone was ~$900.

--dillon

[ricekikr]

just get a set of Supertech Single groove Inconel exhaust valves. Think of the extra $100 dollars as cheap insurance for your $500+ head

http://www.intengineering.com/18t-20...01881-1-2.html

pretty much everything you need is on that site. I am using the supertech spring kit w/ titanium retainers and single groove inconel exhaust valves and stock intake valves.

Are the titanium retainers needed? Anyone break their stock retainers?

[nunya]

Are the titanium retainers needed? Anyone break their stock retainers?

you gotta pay to play quit cheaping out..... there are pros and cons to titanium and the stock retainers. its not about breaking them. You obviously havent done much research on building a high revving head.

--dillon

[ricekikr]

you gotta pay to play quit cheaping out..... there are pros and cons to titanium and the stock retainers. its not about breaking them. You obviously havent done much research on building a high revving head.

--dillon

Please school me (not sarcastic).

From what I understand the only benefit of titanium retainers is weight savings which gives faster valve response. But coming from a Honda , the stock retainers (not titanium or other exotic material) revs fine past 9k rpm. I know, not the same engine, but same principle.

EDIT:

I read up on it. Apparently Ti retainers are less durable than stainless. But good for high rev and aggressive cams. I guess I'll stick with the stock ones. Don't plan on revving higher than 8k or getting super aggressive cams..

[nunya]

Cool, you read right :-)

You will need to find high rate springs designed to work with stock retainers. I have never personally researched if the Supertech or Ferrea work with the stockers.

--dillon

[A4GY]

TJ: Do you have your turbo yet? I have a GT35R that is pretty much new for sale cheap... pm me

[ZimbutheMonkey]

So if you want to rev the head to 7500, would the stock exhaust valves hold up? I'm probably going to be installing a T04E on my 1.8 displacement AEB and obviously need to raise the rev limits to take advantage of the turbo. If I was to do that I'd be replacing the springs and retainers, however I'm wondering if it would be any real advantage to build the head to rev to 8000-8300, especially on stock cams. Then again, IE sells stainless exhaust valve sets for $160 which would probably do the trick.

With regards to the cams, if I was to replace anything it would be the intake cam with an IE intake cam (when they come out). As far as I've been able to tell, you need a really really free flowing exhaust path in order to prevent the exhaust gas reversion you'd get with a longer duration lift.

[Pete@IE]

For whatever its worth, you cannot and should not mix and match springs and retainers. The vast majority, including our new kit, the supertech kit, and the ferrea kit- have specific installed heights which are built into the retainers. Using the wrong retainers can cause excessive stress in the spring, coil bind, or on the opposite end (eg, supertech retainers with other people's springs), valve float.

On the heads- if you have a head that's actually in good shape and are on a budget, you can usually do exhaust valves, springs and retainers, and cams. Typically though, most of these "core" heads are pretty hammered, and we end up doing the guides and a full valve stem set.

We have done endurance testing all the way up to 9500 rpms on our cams / spring combination, although not recommended.You really have to build the hell out of everything to make it hold up to that sort of beating.


PS: RE: Backpressure and bigger cams- the head isn't too sensitive to this IF you don't wreck the anti-reversion properties of the stock exhaust port. You can bet at nearly 700 bhp crank on a .63 a/r T3 housing, we have plenty of backpressure- but still the bigger street/ strip cams make way way more power then the intake cam only.